Originally Posted by
Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3252157
That is a reaction to a stimuli, not an emotion. Even a spider will run away from me if I tap his web. Fight or flight.
I don't think it requires emotions to avoid being eaten alive. They're not avoiding the emotional aspect but the stimuli of pain.
Our fish are never "happy" to see us. They see us as potential food every time we enter the room. They recognize the pattern. They are all a bunch of Pavlov's dogs tapping on the glass. When my scorps see me they light up like Christmas tress. It would be nice to think they are excited at my meer presence.... but it's a reaction to potential food.
I actually disagree. We always seem to consider emotion to be something belonging to 'higher' organisms. Things more evolved or things that behave in ways that let us easily assume an emotional, internal life. And yet, at the same time, we all acknowledge that emotions are, in their essence, irrational, illogical and primal. To me, it makes more sense that the majority of the world's creatures have emotion rather than some atonal capacity to reason out their own best interest. Evolution has shaped, for each organism, the things that frighten them, anger them, soothe them and make them, well, happy. By following these emotions, they make decisions that cause them to be successful at surviving and reproducing.
Emotion is an incredibly powerful motivator and it makes us do things that are in our own self interest. We run when frightened. We lash out when angry. We strive to maintain a status quo when that status quo brings us happiness. Emotion is an evolutionary tool. It keeps us alive and looking after ourselves. I think you absolutely need emotion to avoid being eaten alive. Fear is a survival mechanism. If something wants to eat you, the best way to avoid being eaten is to AUGH REALLY NOT WANT TO BE EATEN PANIC PANIC FLEE!
So, I think fish can feel emotions. I think they can be afraid, angry and happy. I think they can see you and be happy because you feed them and they like being fed and the association bleeds over into liking you around the tank. Clowns and other fish form lasting mating bonds. Is that love? Well, not in the sense that when one clownfish sees his mate he wants to go out and buy her mysis and a bouquet of amphipods. But, it just makes more sense to imagine that when mated clownfish interact, their little brains tell them over and over with chemicals 'this is good, you like this, this other fish near you makes you calm, content, safe' and the fish remain together because they WANT to, because evolution has found that wanting to remain with a single mate ends up being a very effective way to survive and propigate if you're a clownfish. To me, that makes more sense than assuming the clown has logicked out that staying with this bigger, bossier female will provide him with food and the potential for babies. I think logic, reason and forward planning are much more the domain of more complex creatures. I think emotions belong to nearly everything on some level, because it's such an incredibly useful and effective way to make an organism do things. It just makes sense, to me, that said tool started coming into play a long, long time ago with simple, little creatures rather than appearing only when more complicated animals began showing up.
So, are fish emotional landscapes as complex as humans? I'd guess probably not because their needs aren't as complex either. But can they feel emotions? Can they be happy? I believe they can.
