Done with LR: See my pictures & tell me what you think....

[2quills]

Again, you seem to be saying that every fish has the excact same biology. This supports the idea that you have not done enough research to conclude that you or anyone else knows for certain. While some scientists are reporting that certain fish do respond to pain in much the same way that mammals do. You've probably found one scientist...more than likely Dr. Rose who says that fish don't. Either way, even he doesn't have any specific evidence they don't. To each is own, you believe what you wan't, but to think that you are not putting your clown through stress is the height of irrisbonsibility in this hobby since you cannot say for certain IMO.

 

[meowzer]

Originally Posted by 2Quills
http:///forum/post/3285810
To each is own, you believe what you wan't, but to think that you are not putting your clown through stress is the height of irrisbonsibility in this hobby since you cannot say for certain IMO.

totally agree with the above.....I hope you re-think your "beliefs" about this.......and if you do stay in the hobby...I also hope that you are more considerate and responsible with your live stock.....good luck....I direct that to the poor fish

 

[dutchswan]

Originally Posted by meowzer
http:///forum/post/3285812

totally agree with the above.....I hope you re-think your "beliefs" about this.......and if you do stay in the hobby...I also hope that you are more considerate and responsible with your live stock.....good luck....I direct that to the poor fish
The "scientists" you are quoting are actually marine BIOLIGISTS. They are drawing conclusions from observation left open to interpretation as opposed to science related to the anatomy. Let me draw you a parallell. If I shoot you in the arm with a local...your arm will go numb. At that point I could stab you and you won't feel a thing. However, if I mist some water on that same arm and turn a fan on it...you will get goosebumps. One is a reflex, the other is not. Finally, I do not know who Dr. Rose is, but having a marine biologist comment on neurology would be live having a foot doctor perform open heart surgury. Yes, he went to medical school; but sorry to say you are going to die on the table.

 

[2quills]

I'm not quoting bioligists in this thread. What I am talking about is putting your fish through stress, which, they most certainly do experience. Even anglers who practice catch and release techniques understand the importance of minimizing the stress of a fish for the effects that it can have on it's overall well being. Whether they feel pain or not...the fact that you speak of your clown as nothing more than a mere science experiment at this point doesn't bode very well for the proper husbandry techniques that are widely accepted and encouraged in this hobby.

 

[luvmyreef]

Regardless of what anybody believes, it is just that noone in this hobby wants to see any livestock go through things they shouldnt have to. And noone will accept it if it is tried. My main reason for telling you about your mistake of adding fish too soon (10 days into your cycle), is so that someone else who is NEW to the hobby doesnt read your post and think that it is ok to do it too. It would be considered irresponsible. But atleast you are asking questions, that is a good thing.

 

[dutchswan]

Originally Posted by luvmyreef
http:///forum/post/3285833
Regardless of what anybody believes, it is just that noone in this hobby wants to see any livestock go through things they shouldnt have to.
Including me. Fish can and do get "stressed out" or "exhausted". I don't want this any more than the next person in this forum. Perhaps some may consider it semantics, but I was only pointing out that there was no actual physical pain involved. One makes me insensitive, the other makes me cruel. I am not the most empathetic person, but that does not mean I want the be the cause of someone's need for empathy.
Anyway, my aquascaping is complete. I will post pictures with my "Day 18 Test Results".

 

[btldreef]

I think we're all just trying to say that you need to be more responsible.

 

[dutchswan]

Originally Posted by BTLDreef
http:///forum/post/3285926
I think we're all just trying to say that you need to be more responsible.
I know...that is the point of contention. I do not believe I have been irresponsible. Yes, I put clowns in too soon and regret having done so. I have already put a lot of time into setup and my wife is starting to get on me about other projects. Simply put, I do not have a proper QT, nor the money to get one with filtration (after the fortune I have already spent), nor the time to monitor 2 tanks. So, the clown will have to tough it out. If that makes me an sob...then I am an sob.

Note: My lack of time is not the state of things. I have a 3rd baby on the way due in one month. I have to finish remodeling the baby's room before it arrives. I wanted to get the tank setup out of the way so that it is able to cycle while I am finishing up my other projects.