DYI Denitrator

[zman1]

I just put together a kind of cross DYI Denitrator. I am still waiting for a new pump to arrive.
As it stands right now, I have been having some NO3 issues.
History
I removed two 32 gallon trash cans and a 50 gallon AG tank that I had macro algae in. The removal was due to relative humidity comfort issues. This was helping cover up my feeding habits. Since then, I added one of the 32 gallon trash cans back. Water changes haven't been able to keep up with it. So I thought I would try a Denitrator. It's going to take a while to see if it has any value.
Parts list, rounded up
3"x4" Toilet flange with knockout - $6
28" of 3" PVC -$? left over from other project $2
PVC drain grate - Trimmed to go on the inside bottom. -$4
3" Nylon screen for top of grate - $1 a Left over again
Coupler 3" - $2
3" cleanout with plug - $5
2 John Guest SpeedFit 1/4 in and 3/8 -24 $5
1 - 3/8 -24 Tap = $3
Teflon tape - left over - 50 cents
100' Airline tubing $15
Pump depending on what I end up using - $26 (2 Aqua lifts) or $95 (Dosing pump)
1 gal CaribSea No-NO3 media - $20
Minimum $90
I left the top accessible in case I have to remove the media. In the pictures right now, the water is first pumped through the airline, starting at the top side of the pipe (this is were the airline starts ). It then travels down the 100' of tubing and enters the bottom of the chamber through the JG fitting. Then up through the grate, screen, and media. The water exits at the top though a JG fitting and airline to the tank. I have a pinch valve I can use to slow the flow down if needed (not pictured). Right now, I have an old aqualifter on cycling a 5 gal bucket of tank water. I am going to wait and evaluate this water, once a see some positive results, I will put it in the system. I thought about keeping the airline on the inside of the pipe so it wasn't exposed to light, but decided not to. If algae starts to grow, I cover it with something, 100 MPH tape as a last resort.
I am hoping for good results!

 

[reefforbrains]

why the 100" running around the outside?

 

[zman1]

The 100' - To give aerobic bacteria a chance to take up any O2 during the trip down. Hopefully, then it would be prime for anaerobic bacteria.

 

[acrylic51]

Keep us updated.......

 

[cgrant]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
Keep us updated.......

Yes...Please do!
If this works well i'm building one!

 

[acrylic51]

Originally Posted by CGRANT
Yes...Please do!
If this works well i'm building one!

 

[zman1]

Will do - worse case, I will use the hardware as a second media chamber for the CA reactor with a few changes.

 

[zman1]

The new pumps are due today. However, I have been running it with the old Aqualifter and have seen two issues:
1. I was still seeing air gaps in the exit line. I wasn't for sure if it was some type of gas exchange byproduct of the sulfur, it wasn't. I put a pinch clamp on the exit line and found the leak that was drawing air (now leaking water). The top plug (not JQ) was the cause, I only used two wraps of Teflon tape, pulled and wrapped it three times, it's now fixed.
2. The most important issue, it appears to me, that water is fouled from the sulfur. Not sure, if it's the concentration in only 5 gal bucket of tank water with regards to the amount of media used. I will swap it out again during the system water change. I may use one of the old trash cans I took out and fill it with the 30 gal of tank water for the setup. My system still has about 200 gallons counting for LR/LS displacement. So the thirty gallons may have a different result, I hope...

 

[zman1]

Did the water change and put the dosing pump on. The pinch clamp is wide open as the pump instructions indicate you can't restrict flow. To control flow you have to run on a start/stop timer. I also, have the two new aqualifts, we will see. Either way I can use them.

 

[wattsupdoc]

Zman, Great project!

I have asked on here before about these and gotten no real response, but asnwers mostly like "a better way would be to"

. Anyways i'm sure they work, I've read several things on them, but it's been a while. I think the main consern about them is the production of sulfur, injectig the product water into a highly oxegenated flow area relieves this. Like you'r skimmers intake, or even the output I believe. But I wonder how you will know if it's removing nitrates from the system on a newly cycling system? It will take several weeks for the anearobic bacteria to cycle. Once it sees nitrates. Of course the nitrate removal product will remove the trates but I think you could have used anything used for bacteria, LR rubble bioballs those small biofilter type products. Does the trate removal product you used use an absorption type process to remove the trates? Just wondering about leaching them back? :thinking: I suppose it really cant though if the anearobic bacteria is consuming the trates as it goes. Not trying to criticise here or anything, quite the contrary, i wanna do one of these on my 125 FOWLR at some point and wanna see some experiences with it. Also couldnt you just use the syphon method and let it drip out into a sump, fuge, or wetdy type setup? No pump needed then.

 

[zman1]

I think it will take a long time for it to set up anaerobic bacteria. I was going to originally use old rinsed CA reactor media for the chamber. I am hoping once it sets up, I will read a detectable difference when testing water. I dislike tests that are shade compares. For this setup, I need a pump, I don't believe siphon would work with all the line resistance. I am no where close to call it a success or failure at this point... Nor am I ready to try it just yet on my system.

 

[zman1]

Update
I mounted the dosing pump and added a timer. I wired the timer for two different outlets. The outlet on the left is for the normally closed contact and the outlet on the right, normally open. I set the timer to pulse duration of 59 seconds (max) every 5 minutes. The result is that the pump plugged into the N.O. contacts comes on for a minute and off for four minutes. If that turns out not to be long enough, I will just plug it in the N.C. and run it four minutes on and 1 minute off. This was the easiest way to program it., Otherwise, If I wanted a 50-50, I would have had program events with on and off in five minutes intervals.
Surprisingly, I have noticed a difference already with the water in the trashcan. I did add a Mag 9.5 to it, small piece of LR and food earlier in the week. Also, the pump helps keep the water temp up. I just checked the trashcan NO3 level and the output directly from the hose. I am using the Salifert test kit. When looking down from the top it is a 1:1 ratio, looking front on, it's a 10:1 ratio (divide number by 10) The sample on the left came from the output hose of the Denitrator and the one on the right directly from the trashcan water. Earlier the trashcan was reading at least 25 PPM. I would guess it is now a litte above 12 and the Denitrator is 2.5. The two test vials are both from NO3 kits. The pH is 7.9 right now. So far, it is looking a little more positive! I may put it in the production system next week, if it continues to improve.
Side note: I noticed, I have DYI instead of DIY in the first post and title. I do that all the time, must be old habit of the common FYI

 

[zman1]

This was my inspiration - the first two links in the post..
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/201164/how-to-lower-nitrates#post_1516686
I just checked the pH of the output by letting it fill a glass - It was 7.1. I am going to build a second chamber and use straight Ca media to feed the output of the Denitrator into, then back into the tank. Or I will feed the Denitrator into my current Ca reactor and put the second chamber on the Ca reactors output.
Another issue I ran across in using a straight JQ fitting on the top. While moving the hose around I was able to get it to come loose. I will switch this out for a 90 degree JQ and use RO 1/4" tubing on the output.

 

[stimpsonjcat]

I'm actually in the process of building one of these too--although with a slightly different design. There's no reason why a siphon wouldn't work. The siphon's flow rate will be limited by the difference in height between the starting and ending points, as well as the tube's inner diameter. However, since you only want a flow rate of about 4 GPH, it should be fine.
I am going to be putting a 1/4" JG bulkhead into my overflow box, then connecting 100' of black polyurethane tubing. I then have a 2 gallon plastic jug from Wal-Mart, filled with bio-bale and sealed up air-tight with two more JG bulkheads in the lid. One of those bulkheads will be connected to the tube coming from the overflow, and have another tube on the inside going to the bottom of the container. The other bulkhead drains the water into some activated carbon to remove any H2S, and has a valve to control flow rate. I'm just waiting for the bulkheads to arrive in the mail, then I'll be building it (hopefully this weekend). I can post pictures and results here when it's complete, if anybody is interested.

 

[zman1]

For sure post pictures. I agree siphon "should" work, my Ca reactor was supposed to work on siphon, but I found it worked better with a Aqualifter (when I was drawing water from a higher level). It is a little different , since the CO2 tank can actually charge the chamber some if it's not adjusted. In my case, I am not pulling water from the top of the tank but rather the sump and the chamber is taller. Let us know if your pumpless version performs to your expections on flow. I was also thinking of carbon or putting the output hose next to my skimmer water intake, but I think that may help build up calcium on the impeller and inner-housing faster. Also thought of getting a cheap air pump and stone to aerate the water in a small section of pipe before it overflows back into the sump.

 

[zman1]

StimpsonJCat - I added a activated carbon tube and airstones. I just used some leftover plumbing parts. The pipe is 2" and has a coupler about 6" from the bottom, standard cap on bottom and the Wye drain that you can see. The Tee and horizontal pipe are there just to rest it against the side of the trash can. I put a JQ fitting on the bottom and the DeNO3 feeds it. I did add an aqualift to assist the dosing pump since this add was causing flow issues. When I finally put the DeNO3 in the Production System, I will lower the dosing pump mounting and shorten all hose feeds. None of the fittings or pipe are glued except the bottom cap. This way I can pull the chamber apart to change the carbon and floss. I used just filter floss on the bottom and on the top of the carbon. I may make something more permanent or I may not and just use it.
The NO3 levels are now 2.5 ppm in the trashcan and output of the DeNO3. I was hoping for Zero, but that is acceptable. The Trashcan pH is 7.77 and since I added the carbon and airstone the output of this chamber is now 8.12. I am on the way to Lowes to get the 90 JQ and parts for the second chamber.

 

[just fishings]

I love DIY projects; I have biult everything for my system on a 75gal. I do not have a large problem with nitrates now but in my new house I am working on a whole wall display....about 1,125 gals.!!! I want it ALL for that system. I have been doing salt for about 3 years but have never heard of a nitrate reducer....sounds great. I have seen in the stores the media you pictured. I wish to biuld one; BUT I do not have an understanding of what it is doing at this point. Flatter me with your knowledge by explaining where you would be taking the water out of your main tank-through the system (with an explanation of the chemical process)-back to your tank!!PLEASE.

 

[zman1]

The water right now is confined to the trashcan. When I put it in the system, the water will draw from the sump and return to the sump. See post 13 of this thread.... Also, look at links 3 and 4.
Originally Posted by zman1
This was my inspiration - the first two links in the post..
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/201164/how-to-lower-nitrates#post_1516686
Also, look at links 3 and 4.
Google"Korallin BioDenitrator S-1502, S-3002 & S-4002 " first link to see a retail version for $350 -$700.

 

[just fishings]

Great links to help me understand!!

The one thing I don't know by reading is when it all goes through the system does it not take out some of the minerials and salt? This (in a way) is like the leaching of the water through the earth; correct? :notsure:

 

[wattsupdoc]

Zman,
I'm wondering why you chose to use a DeNO3 material in an anearobic environment. Maybe I dont understand the use of that product. :notsure: Is it made to be used in a DeNO3? Or is that something that works on absorption type principal? :notsure: Where any flow through it would DeNO3? Will it as most mechanical/chemical filtrations eventually "fill up". Most of the DeNO3's I've read about just use any type of surface area to sustain the anearobic bacteria, but I do understand that there are some that work a little differently. Some even being "fed".
I can see where this media may be beneficial to the DeNO3, it would quickly begin removing trates, then would possibly have a higher DeNO3 capacity as it would be removing them both biologically and mechanically. If the anearobic bacteria can find enough NO3 to thrive. But, if the product should begin to leach the NO3 back into the water will the bacteria be able to compensate? Of course, you could remove the media if needed to, but then you would loose you're anearobic bacteria. :notsure:
Not trying to point out any negatives, in fact I believe you'll have a good working DeNO3.

I just am curious as to the science behing you'rs!

OoopsI guess I shoulda read the posts!

I see now it's sulfer.