Ecosystem..doesn't need skimmer..how?

[jer4916]

I just bought a ecosystem for my 125 gallon tank, the guy who used the tank before me had fish/reef tank and he said he never had to do water changes...which is cool and all...but i do plan on doing them...my concern is ...he didn't use a protein skimmer nor does the ecosystem talk of using one next to it. If im not running a skimmer where is all that waste going? ....the ecosystem is 35 gallons and the main tank is 125.
should i run a skimmer with it?...
im new to this high end stuff
~chris

 

[bigb]

I run same set up. Regular water changes are still needed. Ecosystem doesn't recomend a protein skimmer, they say it will remove minerals and elements beneficial to the macroalgae. If you plan on using one it goes in before the ecosystem filter. All waste is supposed to be filtered by macroalgae under the 24/7 lighting. I have just started growing the macroalga so other imputs with longer usage would be great.

 

[jer4916]

so the calerpa (sp) will use the waste for growth?

 

[bigb]

Bio balls supposed to break down large waste. macroalgae and miracle mud reduce nitrate and phosphate levels. release oxygen and other trace elements. You should be able to look at an owners manual or faqs on their website.

 

[ninjaboy]

I have just set up a new 150gallon tank, and bought the ecosystem. It recommend you to use a skimmer, and the one I bought was the Pro 3616. which comes with a G3 skimmer in the 1st stage.
It does need a skimmer, at least that's what it said on their website.

 

[bigb]

Originally Posted by ninjaboy
the Pro 3616. which comes with a G3 skimmer in the 1st stage.
It does need a skimmer, at least that's what it said on their website.

If packaged with a skimmer (pro) then the dealer probably recomends it. Found only a few sites that package it that way because they are pricey even without the skimmer. Ecosystem aquariams web site and owners manuals mention nothing of requiring a skimmer.

 

[acrylic51]

I have to agree with Ninja a reef tank definitely needs a skimmer, wouldn't care what the manufacture said that it didn't....

 

[shawnts106]

If you are setting your 125 gallon up useing the Ecosystem method, which is a method of not using a skimmer, or carbon and using MACROALGAE'S and lots of LR for natural filtration IMO, You are doing a very good thing, I set my 75 up as just a normal tidepool, with carbon blah blah blah and a skimmer blah blah blah, I had nitrate problems, Ammonia, Nitrite, pH and alllll kinds of other problems, including head and lateral line desease with tangs...
then, about a year ago I put on a refugium, 15 gallons with LR, and Calurpa Algae in it and I have not had a problem with ANYTHING, my yellow tangs LL has completly healed and I have never been able to keep flowerpot corals or other hard corals before untill now, Now I have a THRIVING reef, with LPS, SOFTIES and SPS even a clam now, with NO PROBLEMS!!!!
The refugium method or Ecosystem method simulates nature in every way, it provids a deep sand bed for maximum denitrification and the calurpa algaes for consuming the wastes and using them to grow, it also provides a home for your pods and other critters so they make more of themselves, the larva of these critters travels up to the display as zooplankton and FEEDS YOUR CORALS!!!
That is why I believe that this method is the ONLY way to go!!!!
I have seen other people use this method and they all agree that they have had more success with this method than any other way they have set up a reef before!!!
also, I would do waterchanges like, once every other month of so to replace some elements in the water that maybe get too low, all you need to do other than feed your fish, add water, and watch is to buff your tank... then tada youve got yourself a healthy thriving ENVIRONMENT/ECOSYSTEM instead of a "fish tank"
, hope this helps, I STRONGLY ENCOURAGE YOU to do this, BELIEVE ME YOU WILL NOT BE DISSAPPOINTED, BTW: you can use your extra algae you grow to feed your herbivorous fishes!!
enjoy your ecosystem!!!

 

[jer4916]

i have the ecosystem already bought...im rather excited to have it set up...im still doing the plumbing...i have a few leaks...is this normal?...i cant figure out how people get this to work correctly.

 

[acrylic51]

Sounds like a neat product, but don't agree with the "do a water change every other month or so"!!!!!!! :needhelp: That filter system isn't replacing crap as far as trace elements and stuff that is being consumed by the inhabitants... So water changes would be a vital key to the success of any tank......
DSB again are a debatable topic... And again does anyone know where the nitrification or denitrification takes place within a sand bed?????

 

[shawnts106]

As far as the waterchanges go, if your not using additives than yes you will have to do more frequent water changes!
if you are, then theoreticlly you shouldnt have to do them at all, or at least not much!
DSB again are a debatable topic... And again does anyone know where the nitrification or denitrification takes place within a sand bed?????
yes, where the bacteria are, they can be deep within or just a few cm below the surface... not sure the exact depth!
I agree with the DSB method, it is only natural, and if you use SAND and not some aragonite mix that is large granuals than you should NOT have to vacuum... I use sand and I have vacuumed before, it was MONTHS before I had done a water change and there was virtually NO detritus!!
in the Oceans of our world there is obveously a deep sand bed, and since we are trying to duplicate that environment I only think it is logical to do so!

 

[acrylic51]

Originally Posted by shawnts106
As far as the waterchanges go, if your not using additives than yes you will have to do more frequent water changes!
if you are, then theoreticlly you shouldnt have to do them at all, or at least not much!
yes, where the bacteria are, they can be deep within or just a few cm below the surface... not sure the exact depth!
I agree with the DSB method, it is only natural, and if you use SAND and not some aragonite mix that is large granuals than you should NOT have to vacuum... I use sand and I have vacuumed before, it was MONTHS before I had done a water change and there was virtually NO detritus!!
in the Oceans of our world there is obveously a deep sand bed, and since we are trying to duplicate that environment I only think it is logical to do so!
Wrong you still need water changes regardless of what crap you add!!!!!!!! Our filtration systems can't even compare to the "natural" enviroment in the oceans.... They have major storms and other events and just the natural flow that takes toxins and debris away, and without doing water changes your tank would become laiden with toxins over time, so YES!!!! Water changes are needed....!!!!!!!

Your actually correct on where nitrification and denitrification takes place in a sand bed.... it usually takes place within the top layer of sand usually no deeper than 3/4" of an inch... So why all the hype on 3"-4" or more inches of sand bed??????
Again we can't duplicate mother nature and yes there are areas with deep sand beds, but all of the ocean isn't a deep sand bed.... And again with the natural occurances in the ocean these areas are cleansed... which we can't replicate in a closed system!!!!!!!!!!!!
Again not all the ocean floor is a deep sand bed!!!!!!!!

 

[acrylic51]

So Shawnts106 your saying you have to have a sand bed or DSB to have a thriving reef tank???

 

[shawnts106]

Again not all the ocean floor is a deep sand bed!!!!!!!!
yes you are correct, but where are the deep sand beds ussually at? REEFS
So Shawnts106 your saying you have to have a sand bed or DSB to have a thriving reef tank???
Nope, just saying its more natural and it helps!
Wrong you still need water changes regardless of what crap you add!!!!!!!! Our filtration systems can't even compare to the "natural" enviroment in the oceans.... They have major storms and other events and just the natural flow that takes toxins and debris away, and without doing water changes your tank would become laiden with toxins over time, so YES!!!! Water changes are needed....!!!!!!!
Oh ok, thats why the man who invented this method did this on a 200 gallon system and didnt do waterchanges on it for 5 years?... oh yeah, his reef was really toxic, those corals where just loving the bath of toxins!
I do not agree with this, sorry, yes you can do waterchanges to help with the addition of elements and further removal of "toxins" but no, they are not nessessary if you are adding additives and useing this method, there is a video tape, I think its The Ecosystem Method, blah blah balh something or other! anyway You should research it, find it, buy it, then watch it !!!!
you would really learn alot from this scientist who invented the method!

 

[shawnts106]

BTW, in that tank he didnt do waterchanges on for 5 years, he had an angelfish and a tang who had sever lateral line and head desease, that is the same tank they were cured in!

 

[acrylic51]

Who's tank didn't see any pics.... You'll never convice people they can go without water changes it's a "no win battle" !!!!! Just post a thread and ask if water changes are really needed???????

 

[shawnts106]

Posting a thread to ask someone if waterchanges are a nessessary part of Marine maintainence is a dumb suggestion IMO:
this is why
The Ecosystem Method is a fairly new method, therefore people are unaware of this method, therefore they do not know about, therefore they have not researched it, and further more they have not experienced it!
Posting that kind of thread would be like going back in time 30 + years and asking someone if acclimating aquarium fish is nessessary!
people didnt do it because they didnt understand about acclimation shock and the importance of properly getting a fish adjusted to their new water conditions, they didnt understand about pH, alk, um... what is it Ions? I forget the name!
they didnt understand about this stuff
the case is still the same today!

 

[acrylic51]

And your point??? The bottom line is water changes are an essential part........ The theory on no water changes has been done here before and again....... A "no win" argument no matter what forum you go to!!!!!!! :yes:
It's great if you believe it, but 99% of the others don't and won't

 

[shawnts106]

And your point???
LOL!!! ok, well if that doesnt explain it then ill just let you think youve "won" this argument!!!
It's great if you believe it, but 99% of the others don't and won't
99% huh? wow, thats fairly high, and incorect, your basing that on there are only 100 people that are into the aquarium hoby, I would be the 1 of the 100 that doesnt agree, maybe you should take a math class, colleges offer some type of summer program if you need some info please let me know, I have a nice book, maybe I should read it... anyway let me know if you need some help!
*sighs*, well ANYWAY, done with this childish argueing, there is an obveous difference of oppinions here, so I think that we should just stick to our own methods of aquarium husbandry, I will not do water changes and have my thriving reef, and you can do as many as you like an have yours....

 

[lennon]

Originally Posted by shawnts106
LOL!!! ok, well if that doesnt explain it then ill just let you think youve "won" this argument!!!
99% huh? wow, thats fairly high, and incorect, your basing that on there are only 100 people that are into the aquarium hoby, I would be the 1 of the 100 that doesnt agree, maybe you should take a math class, colleges offer some type of summer program if you need some info please let me know, I have a nice book, maybe I should read it... anyway let me know if you need some help!
*sighs*, well ANYWAY, done with this childish argueing, there is an obveous difference of oppinions here, so I think that we should just stick to our own methods of aquarium husbandry, I will not do water changes and have my thriving reef, and you can do as many as you like an have yours....

Hey there...I am interested in this filtration system and I think that if someone does not use it..then they really cannot say it does not work or you HAVE to do water changes all the time. If it works for you...more power to you and I need to find out more..
Has it still been going good??
I am shopping today and need to decide on refugium or eco..or are they the same..
thanks much!!!