Environmentally sound hobbist?

[arkman]

Hi all,
I started keeping minireefs about 15 years ago and have been out of the hobby for about 5. When I started "the way" was a wet dry (protein skimmers were debatable), when I left "the way" was a plenum, now I see that "the way" is the refugarium (which I think is a really cool concept).
My wife SCORED at a garage sale today:
Nice acrylic tank (45-55 gal)
IceCap 660 Ballast
2 actinic white and 1 super actinic blue VHO lamps (how do I tell if these need to be replaced?)
big wet/dry sump
6 power heads (most of them BIG)
3 250W EBO-Jager heaters
Coralife and Clralife Wizard electronic ballasts
Multiple air pums
Asssd hoses/nets/stuff
all for $30!!!!
SO here's my problem:
I'm also a SCUBA diver and an ecologist , Im concerned that this hobby (especially reeef keeping) is destroying the coral reefs of the world --- I’m torn because I LOVE reeef keeping. I like the "unknown" critters, I like the balance, and I think they are incredibly beautiful. Can someone make a good argument that will help me justify this hobby? Can I raise corals successfully for the trade? Should I keep a few large fish (lion, trigger, angel) instead? or *gasp* should I just breed Discus?

 

[j21kickster]

Im glad to see that you are back into the hobby. If it is gulit you want to rid yourself of, you can (should) build your reef out of tank raides corals, there are many places you can find that sell coral frags of all kinds, the newest tank im doing is going to be all tank propagated corals. Once you have them for a while, you can sell them to other reef keepers. So, it is entirely possible to have a tank that not one thing (even fish) was removed from the ocean for your tank. Even on this site under trading and classifides you can sometimes find frags for sale, you might even get a couple free from someone who has a ton of them, provided you pay shipping. So it it is justification you need, i hope i have helped you get it.
Oh also, i wouldnt worry about those flat fish any more, if you have a thriving reef tank you will be in awe, and those discus cant bring the same type of satisfaction as they once could

 

[arkman]

Cultured Rock too??? What reef fish are commercially bred?

 

[j21kickster]

Puffers, Tangs, Clowns, Chromis, Gobies, Triggers, Seahorses/Pipefish, Wrasses, Sharks and many others you just to have to know where to look. and there are a few places that put the rock into the ocean, leave it for a few years and then harvest it, there is a LOT of rock out there, it is corals i would be the most concerned with.

 

[j21kickster]

Here is the rock culture im talking about, its put in, left and then harvested later

 

[j21kickster]

oops here is the pic

 

[j21kickster]

If you want to call me a liar thats fine, you can write the the company i got that pic from and ask them, here is another pic of the rock, the crane is just how they put it in the ocean. I seem to remember defenting you in a post about building your own tank when that guy was constsntly insulting you, i only ask you would show that courtsey.

 

[steamboat1569]

Was not directed at you. It was directed at the picture.
I don't remember saying that you were the one that did it.
Went back and read all the posts on this thread. Still can't find where I called you a liar.

 

[dburr]

Arkman,
I to think about all the corel reef distruction. We can only teach others the beauty and importance of their being by showing them.
Standing on the shore you can't see it, and most people don't go diving, right.
So we can bring it to them. And if the reefs do get destroyed, I would hope we could all somehow get together and rebuild them.
I would love to donate some of my corels to that cause.

 

[frankl15207]

Hi Arkman
I abandoned the idea of a reef tank 10 or 12 years ago because of articles on the same topic, along with talk of banning the import and sale of those very items in this country.
Unfortunately, I don't have links, but the following should make you feel somewhat better.
1. Studies have been conducted where an entire species of fish has been removed from an area. In a short period of time, the population was restored naturally. Apparently, some fish have the same territorial restrictions as some mammals. If a territory becomes available, it will be repopulated. I do now, and have always avoided, the purchase of any fish deemed impossible to sustain in captivity. I have found that most conscientious fish store owners do the same. I also note more species of captive bred marine fish being sold, although this is far from those in the freshwater industry.
2. Live rock, at least within the boundaries of the US is aquacultured. Areas are leased and bare rock is "planted" and then harvested. This is a highly regulated industry. The same is supposed to be happening around the rest of the world, although there are some questions concerning that. Fiji and Tonga rock is supposedly rock which has broken away from the reef due to storms, etc. This is rock that would fall off of the shelf and die off eventually. This is monitored internationally, and any country found to be violating it has its exports banned. If you have doubts on this, stick with the aquacultured, or you can make your own (http://www.garf.org).
3. Corals. I try to purchase only maricultured or captive bred corals. I do so with the following thoughts in mind
a. Captive bred is always better.
b. No harm is done to the natural reefs.
c. It is more likely to do well since it has already
multiplied in captivity.
4. As an environmentally conscious hobbyist, you have the ability to maintain species that may become endangered or extinct do to circumstances well beyond the hobbyist's control. Sewage and fertilizers entering the water table, and eventually the ocean, are part of what has become modern society, and are doing far more damage than any hobbyist could ever do. Once society succeeds at destroying this in nature, and decides that it is time to fix it, it will be the hobbyists who have successfully propagated these corals that will be able to provide the species to restore those lost in nature.
The corals in my tank are doing quite well and are growing. I look forward to having to split these and return them to my LFS to be sold again and again.
Maybe someone out there can find some links on the above.

 

[arkman]

Frankl, this is great information --- I had no idea that hobbyists were so successful in propagating corals --- that's great news
I totally agree that the bigger problem with reef destruction is agricultural runoff --- and most recently there has been some strong concern about massive reef destruction due to temperature fluctuations --- but the hobby doesn’t help (I’ve seen the results of reefs drilled and blown apart while diving).
I'm going to look into this further and check out my LFS (local fish store?!?) --- have most of you found success with mail order? I'd think that shipping and storage, etc would be tough on these delicate critters?
Any idea how to check the quality of the lamps? Do VHO lamps degrade like to old kind, or if they are on are they ok to use?

 

[melbournefl]

Sorry but I too am still looking for anyone calling anybody a liar I live in FL and there are now several companies that are "making" their live rock. The ban on collection in US waters has created a whole new industry and it appears to be thriving. LOL imagine people paying 5 or 6 bucks for a rock that's been sitting in the ocean awhile?
Oh well I hope you decide that you can enter the hobby without feelings of guilt. The good people are working hard to 1) make a profit without 2) harming the overall well being of our oh-so-delicate resource!
Later,
Paul

 

[bang guy]

Arkman,
Every single coral in my tank was either purchased as a frag from a fellow hobbiest, Traded as a frag for one of my frags, or came on my Aquacultured live rock. I can be done sucessfully and I'm very happy with my results.
Not all of my fish were tank bred Some were, others were tank raised, and a few were wild caught.
I breed Banggai Cardinals (possibly threatened in the wild) and I'm having a great time.
You CAN have a reef tank and be "reef friendly". You have to give some things up but not that much.

 

[wamp]

Id say that alot of the rock you get these days is aquacultred. It is far cheaper and easier for companys to get their rock from places where they have layed it than to go down and chip it off. From a money standpoint it makes more sense. Not too mention, stripping from the reef is like taking money away from the future.

 

[j21kickster]

That is because you changed your post.

 

[karlas]

they are getting more and more fish (slowly) to become tank raised. there are places getting into the hobby that farm raise fish and corals. polyps, mushrooms, leathers, bubble corals and severl others are being tank raised. they are getting to where there are 3rd and 4th generation corals being sold. we have 3 small corals right now and all of them have been fragged and propagated in the tank
mushrooms
polyps
and the third dont have a pic yet, also some of the giant clams have been started to be tank raised also

 

[arkman]

OK, I'm back in. Thanks guys, great links to aquaculture sites started in my favorites. Hopefully in a couple of years I'll be trading off some frags
Frankl - your post reminded me of an article I read recently (in National Geographic, I think) about the successful return of wildlife to the nuke test islands in the S. Pacific.