S
stevenpro
Guest
ScubaDoo said:
ERR! "the fish guy said" More help please re: ich
- Thread starter scully
- Start date
fishnerd
Member
You (all) didn't think "my ick and UV thread detector" wasn't going to go off did you???
Scubadoo is correct, the exposure needed to kill C. irritans is 128,000 microwatts per sq. centimeter per second. Most UV manufacturers advertise flow rate for 30,000 micro.....
Thus, the flow rate/dwell time would have to be less than 1/4 of what most people run them at.
As I have posted in the past... If you don't believe me, call the MANUFACTURER of your UV and ask them what flow rate is needed to kill ich with your particular unit.
Scubadoo is correct, the exposure needed to kill C. irritans is 128,000 microwatts per sq. centimeter per second. Most UV manufacturers advertise flow rate for 30,000 micro.....
Thus, the flow rate/dwell time would have to be less than 1/4 of what most people run them at.
As I have posted in the past... If you don't believe me, call the MANUFACTURER of your UV and ask them what flow rate is needed to kill ich with your particular unit.
S
stevenpro
Guest
ScubaDoo said:Originally Posted by fishnerd
You (all) didn't think "my ick and UV thread detector" wasn't going to go off did you???
Nice to see you Steven...I have always enjoyed reading your articles.
Thank you! I try to stop in from time to time.
mhoup
Member
Originally Posted by fishnerd
You (all) didn't think "my ick and UV thread detector" wasn't going to go off did you???
Scubadoo is correct, the exposure needed to kill C. irritans is 128,000 microwatts per sq. centimeter per second. Most UV manufacturers advertise flow rate for 30,000 micro.....
Thus, the flow rate/dwell time would have to be less than 1/4 of what most people run them at.
As I have posted in the past... If you don't believe me, call the MANUFACTURER of your UV and ask them what flow rate is needed to kill ich with your particular unit.
I did backwards research...I bought a UV and then researched the use in a home aquarium after and found no good news for me!! If I remember right the individual that mentioned that his UV killed all of the Ich, before that all of the fish died, (if memory serves) so there was nothing for the ich to survive on, being a fish parasite. So really you could of put anything in the tank (almost) and that would be the "ich cure".
I'm not bashing on anyone with or without a UV, like I say I have one... the reality is, is that they are not in the ocean and there is no dramatic outbreak of the parasite in a particular area, this indicates the best cure is knowing the cause and preventing it by improving water quqlity, stress, etc. If your tank is maintained using home aquarium 101 as your starting point, you shouldn't have an issue with ich.
Scubadoo -- it's cool to see someone else from the nice cool desert playing with fish!!
You (all) didn't think "my ick and UV thread detector" wasn't going to go off did you???
Scubadoo is correct, the exposure needed to kill C. irritans is 128,000 microwatts per sq. centimeter per second. Most UV manufacturers advertise flow rate for 30,000 micro.....
Thus, the flow rate/dwell time would have to be less than 1/4 of what most people run them at.
As I have posted in the past... If you don't believe me, call the MANUFACTURER of your UV and ask them what flow rate is needed to kill ich with your particular unit.
I'm not bashing on anyone with or without a UV, like I say I have one... the reality is, is that they are not in the ocean and there is no dramatic outbreak of the parasite in a particular area, this indicates the best cure is knowing the cause and preventing it by improving water quqlity, stress, etc. If your tank is maintained using home aquarium 101 as your starting point, you shouldn't have an issue with ich.
Scubadoo -- it's cool to see someone else from the nice cool desert playing with fish!!
S
shark bait
Guest
How is the ICH??
sw65galma
Active Member
Originally Posted by fishnerd
You (all) didn't think "my ick and UV thread detector" wasn't going to go off did you???
Scubadoo is correct, the exposure needed to kill C. irritans is 128,000 microwatts per sq. centimeter per second. Most UV manufacturers advertise flow rate for 30,000 micro.....
Thus, the flow rate/dwell time would have to be less than 1/4 of what most people run them at.
As I have posted in the past... If you don't believe me, call the MANUFACTURER of your UV and ask them what flow rate is needed to kill ich with your particular unit.
So what your saying is that you should get a highpower swirl Unit...with a little tiny pump say under 100gph at 0head...add a ft or 2 of head and you should be around 50gph or less... Then you should be making some effect on ich?
I'm hell bent on making it work...Even if i have to bring it down to like 10gph, hell, 1gph!!and a 45W light!!!
You (all) didn't think "my ick and UV thread detector" wasn't going to go off did you???
Scubadoo is correct, the exposure needed to kill C. irritans is 128,000 microwatts per sq. centimeter per second. Most UV manufacturers advertise flow rate for 30,000 micro.....
Thus, the flow rate/dwell time would have to be less than 1/4 of what most people run them at.
As I have posted in the past... If you don't believe me, call the MANUFACTURER of your UV and ask them what flow rate is needed to kill ich with your particular unit.
So what your saying is that you should get a highpower swirl Unit...with a little tiny pump say under 100gph at 0head...add a ft or 2 of head and you should be around 50gph or less... Then you should be making some effect on ich?
I'm hell bent on making it work...Even if i have to bring it down to like 10gph, hell, 1gph!!and a 45W light!!!
mhoup
Member
Originally Posted by sw65galma
So what your saying is that you should get a highpower swirl Unit...with a little tiny pump say under 100gph at 0head...add a ft or 2 of head and you should be around 50gph or less... Then you should be making some effect on ich?
I'm hell bent on making it work...Even if i have to bring it down to like 10gph, hell, 1gph!!and a 45W light!!!
Cool...let me know what works and I will use it too, I kinda feel the same way since I alread have a UV, may as well make it work, right?
So what your saying is that you should get a highpower swirl Unit...with a little tiny pump say under 100gph at 0head...add a ft or 2 of head and you should be around 50gph or less... Then you should be making some effect on ich?
I'm hell bent on making it work...Even if i have to bring it down to like 10gph, hell, 1gph!!and a 45W light!!!
Cool...let me know what works and I will use it too, I kinda feel the same way since I alread have a UV, may as well make it work, right?
S
stevenpro
Guest
The slower the flow, the more effective the UV light is at killing the target organisms, but the drawback is it is that much harder to ensure that every drop of water passes through the unit.
UV can be a useful tool, but it won't completely cure an outbreak. It might knock down the parasite population so that the fish don't get a lethal number of parasites on them. And, eventually they could develop full immunity to the parasite from this non-lethal exposure. But, effective quarantine and pretreatment is far more effective and cheaper.
UV can be a useful tool, but it won't completely cure an outbreak. It might knock down the parasite population so that the fish don't get a lethal number of parasites on them. And, eventually they could develop full immunity to the parasite from this non-lethal exposure. But, effective quarantine and pretreatment is far more effective and cheaper.
fishnerd
Member
Find out the flow rate to get a "zap" of a microwatts per sq. cm, per second (it will look like funny letters, which I can't reproduce on my computor). Most say_____ gallons per hour -____microwatts.....
Take that number and do the math to get a minimum of 128,000 micro.....
IE- if yours is rated for 500gph -30,000 micro... you would need a flow rate under 115 gph to reach over 128,000 and (effective on ich). Remember that these are based on a new bulb. A bulb thats 2 or 3 months old will require an even slower flow.
Take that number and do the math to get a minimum of 128,000 micro.....
IE- if yours is rated for 500gph -30,000 micro... you would need a flow rate under 115 gph to reach over 128,000 and (effective on ich). Remember that these are based on a new bulb. A bulb thats 2 or 3 months old will require an even slower flow.
scubadoo
Active Member
Originally Posted by MHOUP
I did backwards research...I bought a UV and then researched the use in a home aquarium after and found no good news for me!! If I remember right the individual that mentioned that his UV killed all of the Ich, before that all of the fish died, (if memory serves) so there was nothing for the ich to survive on, being a fish parasite. So really you could of put anything in the tank (almost) and that would be the "ich cure".
I'm not bashing on anyone with or without a UV, like I say I have one... the reality is, is that they are not in the ocean and there is no dramatic outbreak of the parasite in a particular area, this indicates the best cure is knowing the cause and preventing it by improving water quqlity, stress, etc. If your tank is maintained using home aquarium 101 as your starting point, you shouldn't have an issue with ich.
Scubadoo -- it's cool to see someone else from the nice cool desert playing with fish!!
I'll be up your way one week from Firiday night eating a Po-Boy fried shrimp sandwich at Papadeaux's.
I'm not bashing on anyone with or without a UV, like I say I have one... the reality is, is that they are not in the ocean and there is no dramatic outbreak of the parasite in a particular area, this indicates the best cure is knowing the cause and preventing it by improving water quqlity, stress, etc. If your tank is maintained using home aquarium 101 as your starting point, you shouldn't have an issue with ich.
Scubadoo -- it's cool to see someone else from the nice cool desert playing with fish!!
I'll be up your way one week from Firiday night eating a Po-Boy fried shrimp sandwich at Papadeaux's.
lion_crazz
Active Member
Wow ScubaDoo, you really did your research on getting educated opinions on UV's. Very impressive. I definitely agree with everything you said. I do not believe in them for parasites either.
tthemadd1
Active Member
So anyway...... Make sure you keep an eye on your QT water parameters. With alot of fish you could run a cycle. You might have to change water out often. Just remember not to use the main tank to do water changes in your QT. Mix up a garbage can with salt and use that.... Since it is a QT you might be able to get away with using tap water.... Just keep the lights off most of the time in your QT....
Good luck and whats up with everyone Jacking this thread.....
Good luck and whats up with everyone Jacking this thread.....
misslaina
Member
Just wondering if you are contiually treating the same water with uv over and over, lets just say 55 gallons of it, will you eventually get to all of the ick? Maybe with a slower flow, but not necessarily the recommended flow. if this is not true then does this mean all of the water is not getting filtered?
:thinking:
:thinking:
mhoup
Member
Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
I'll be up your way one week from Firiday night eating a Po-Boy fried shrimp sandwich at Papadeaux's.
Nice, I'll buy the sandwich for ya' if you can learn me some fish info!!
If you don't mind, look at my thread about our new house and the tank I we are going to build, any information would be very hellpful!!!
in "fish Disc." "custom wall tank"
I'll be up your way one week from Firiday night eating a Po-Boy fried shrimp sandwich at Papadeaux's.
Nice, I'll buy the sandwich for ya' if you can learn me some fish info!!
If you don't mind, look at my thread about our new house and the tank I we are going to build, any information would be very hellpful!!!
in "fish Disc." "custom wall tank"
S
stevenpro
Guest
Originally Posted by misslaina
Just wondering if you are contiually treating the same water with uv over and over, lets just say 55 gallons of it, will you eventually get to all of the ick? Maybe with a slower flow, but not necessarily the recommended flow. if this is not true then does this mean all of the water is not getting filtered?
:thinking:
No, you can't make sure every drop of water goes through the UV. There is a very nice explanation with the calculations to back it up in EWscobal's "Aquatic Systems Engineering". If you belong to a local marine aquarium club, you might be able to borrow a copy from their library to read it for yourself.
Just wondering if you are contiually treating the same water with uv over and over, lets just say 55 gallons of it, will you eventually get to all of the ick? Maybe with a slower flow, but not necessarily the recommended flow. if this is not true then does this mean all of the water is not getting filtered?
:thinking:
No, you can't make sure every drop of water goes through the UV. There is a very nice explanation with the calculations to back it up in EWscobal's "Aquatic Systems Engineering". If you belong to a local marine aquarium club, you might be able to borrow a copy from their library to read it for yourself.
S
stevenpro
Guest
ScubaDoo said:Originally Posted by StevenPro
Has Bob granted you a vacation?
I no longer answer questions on WWM. It became too time consuming. When I started, it was just Bob, Anthony and myself and it took about 1/2 hour per day. Near the end, we had added several more people, but it was taking 2-3 hours per day. It was just too much. Plus, we had just had a first baby and I had to concentrate more on family, work, and my own writing. I still keep in touch and participate on their message board a little.
scubadoo
Active Member
Originally Posted by MHOUP
Nice, I'll buy the sandwich for ya' if you can learn me some fish info!!
If you don't mind, look at my thread about our new house and the tank I we are going to build, any information would be very hellpful!!!
in "fish Disc." "custom wall tank"
Drop me an email at superidiot@cox.net Not sure of the time yet but I'll be happy to meet you there. My girlfriend and I always go there for some seafood. My stomach is growling right now. :joy:
Nice, I'll buy the sandwich for ya' if you can learn me some fish info!!
If you don't mind, look at my thread about our new house and the tank I we are going to build, any information would be very hellpful!!!
in "fish Disc." "custom wall tank"
Drop me an email at superidiot@cox.net Not sure of the time yet but I'll be happy to meet you there. My girlfriend and I always go there for some seafood. My stomach is growling right now. :joy:
scubadoo
Active Member
Originally Posted by misslaina
Just wondering if you are contiually treating the same water with uv over and over, lets just say 55 gallons of it, will you eventually get to all of the ick? Maybe with a slower flow, but not necessarily the recommended flow. if this is not true then does this mean all of the water is not getting filtered?
:thinking:
At the rate you are talking about it would take weeks to have a chance for all the water to cycle. At this rate, the disease is multiplying faster then the nuke rate.
As the bulb gets older...the rate would have to be slowed even further. Even if you could somehow cycle the water quicker with an appropriate flow rate/exposure time, the rock work and substrate will still provide refuge for the parasites..
In my personal opinion, money is better spent on a top of the line protein skimmer. This will provide better water quality which can prevent ich outbreaks by providing a high quality enviornment.
You have to determine if the electricity used, bulb replacement and constant maintenance is worth the marginal improvement in water quality and very, very narrow window for ich kill with a uv. Also, if you have a uv it must be fed filtered water that is clear, etc, etc. hanging one on the tank with a direct feed from the display ie not filtered water is inappropriate installation.
There is no need for a uv on a well maintained marine system.
JMO
Just wondering if you are contiually treating the same water with uv over and over, lets just say 55 gallons of it, will you eventually get to all of the ick? Maybe with a slower flow, but not necessarily the recommended flow. if this is not true then does this mean all of the water is not getting filtered?
:thinking:
At the rate you are talking about it would take weeks to have a chance for all the water to cycle. At this rate, the disease is multiplying faster then the nuke rate.
As the bulb gets older...the rate would have to be slowed even further. Even if you could somehow cycle the water quicker with an appropriate flow rate/exposure time, the rock work and substrate will still provide refuge for the parasites..
In my personal opinion, money is better spent on a top of the line protein skimmer. This will provide better water quality which can prevent ich outbreaks by providing a high quality enviornment.
You have to determine if the electricity used, bulb replacement and constant maintenance is worth the marginal improvement in water quality and very, very narrow window for ich kill with a uv. Also, if you have a uv it must be fed filtered water that is clear, etc, etc. hanging one on the tank with a direct feed from the display ie not filtered water is inappropriate installation.
There is no need for a uv on a well maintained marine system.
JMO