Ethical Subjectivism

[phixer]

In Detroit 1995 on the Belle Isle Bridge a 33yo woman was involved in a minor traffic accident. The enraged 19 yo driver of the other car began to beat her mercilessly as a crowd of people gradually assembled to watch. Finally in desperation to escape her attacker, the woman jumped off the bridge and drowned.

I put this question to several people and the majority of them said they would have intervened but the fact is no one in that crowd on that day interveined. Is it because they were all cowards or was it because of the true nature of human beings. Ever notice the joy it brings others when you are wrong.

The point being it is politically correct to appear to care but the true nature of people is the same as the crowd. Acts of heroism do occur but the mere fact that they are heroic indicates that they are not the normal pattern of behaviour. The herd mentality is the natural default. I could be wrong?

 

[darthtang aw]

 In Detroit 1995 on the Belle Isle Bridge a 33yo woman was involved in a minor traffic accident.  The enraged 19 yo driver of the other car began to beat her mercilessly as a crowd of people gradually assembled to watch.   Finally in desperation to escape her attacker, the woman jumped off the bridge and drowned.  
I put this question to several people and the majority of them said they would have intervened but the fact is no one in that crowd on that day intervened. Is it because they were all cowards or was it because of the true nature of human beings.   Ever notice the joy it brings others when you are wrong.  
The point being it is politically correct to appear to care but the true nature of people is the same as the crowd.   Acts of heroism do occur but the mere fact that they are heroic indicates that they are not the normal pattern of behaviour.   The herd mentality is the natural default.  I could be wrong? 
No, You are correct. Mob violence is a prime example of this. A peaceful protest remains peaceful as long as no one gets violent...protest become violent through the actions of usually one or two individuals and it carries through the group. I have seen this displayed at concerts as well. The bum fights videos are a prime example as well...people walking by in the subway while two bums fight it out on video...not caring to intervene. When it comes to intervening in a violent situation, even one where the attacker is clearly in the wrong and abusing someone extremely, people will just watch.
Wasn't there a pulitzer prize photographer that in africa photographed starving children? Even photographing a child crawling weak with hunger in the desert sun, no clothes hardly, towards a un food station a mile away. No help was given to the child by the photographer and no one knows what happenned to the child, if he made it or not. The photographer won the pullitzer for that photograph. he was not alone that day...there were other photographers and reporters with him....they just strolled past the child.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phixer http:///t/397189/ethical-subjectivism#post_3539352
In Detroit 1995 on the Belle Isle Bridge a 33yo woman was involved in a minor traffic accident. The enraged 19 yo driver of the other car began to beat her mercilessly as a crowd of people gradually assembled to watch. Finally in desperation to escape her attacker, the woman jumped off the bridge and drowned.

I put this question to several people and the majority of them said they would have intervened but the fact is no one in that crowd on that day intervene. Is it because they were all cowards or was it because of the true nature of human beings. Ever notice the joy it brings others when you are wrong.

The point being it is politically correct to appear to care but the true nature of people is the same as the crowd. Acts of heroism do occur but the mere fact that they are heroic indicates that they are not the normal pattern of behaviour. The herd mentality is the natural default. I could be wrong?

Hi,

My brother took a psychology class once and he used to ask me the same type of questions, after getting my answer he would explain what the books say.

One was very similar to the scenario you posted...according to the psychology books...the people were unsure of what they were witnessing. a kind of shock to the mind...it would depend on the length of time the attack went on before somebody would snap out of it and intervene. People do the same thing when they see a fire....it takes time for stuff like that to process, it may just be a few seconds, but to the person in trouble, it's much, much longer, moving in slow motion.

Firefighters, police and soldiers have training to be able to react faster and instantly, very few regular Joes are able to move on a situation without some kind of mental preparation on "what if" scenarios. So I would say it is "human nature" but it isn't the way you twisted it around, calling it herd mentality..

 

[reefraff]

Putting all the psychobabble aside it's easy to say you'd react a certain way in a given situation but until you are actually there you don't know how you would react.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/397189/ethical-subjectivism#post_3539459
Putting all the psychobabble aside it's easy to say you'd react a certain way in a given situation but until you are actually there you don't know how you would react.


When I was 16, my sister was 15...My sisters boyfriend and mine decided to swim across the lake and back...Dan said he could do it, and Bruce said he could too. My sister could swim pretty good, but she knew she couldn't got all the way there and back, so she stayed on the shore with me because I couldn't swim...just dog paddle and not very well at that. They made it to one side, and was on the way back, but by the time they reached the middle, Bruce began to get tired. My boyfriend was trying to help him, but Bruce was struggling, and Dan shouted for a log that was in the water nearby...my sister panicked and stated screaming "What should I do, what should I do???" I yelled back so I could be heard over her screaming, to help me push him the log. She stood there holding her hands to her face .... So I pushed the log by myself, but it didn't go very far out (by myself I didn't have the momentum needed)...What did I do, without thinking I jumped into the lake and held the log kicking to get it out there to him.

The reticules scene: Now poor Bruce was holding one end of the log...I had the other end of the log, the log would roll and Bruce would start to panic and call out "Danny, Danny!" and Dan would swim to him to help him get stabilized, then I would panic because the log was rolling and I would cry out "Danny, Danny!" and he would swim to me to help me....after about three back and forth jaunts like that, Dan said "just hang on to the damn log" and he got in the middle and pushed us to shore.

Another time sitting in my grandfathers apartment looking out the window...a gang member was beating a man with a 2x4...I ducked down below the window so the man could tell who called out...I yelled "I called the police, they are on their way!" The gang member clocked the fellow 2 or 3 more times and took off. If the gangs in Chicago were to know who called the cops, they would burn our house down, my Grandfather was worried, and kept a vigil at the window all night. I had never called the cops, there wasn't time, just for the creep to think the cops were coming saved the guys life, nothing happened to my grandfathers house.

So I think I can honestly say, that in the event I were to witness something such as the scenario Phixer described, I would have done something...it's my nature to help someone not thinking of my own safety. LOL...Not that I would be much help, but I'm sure I would try.

 

[bang guy]

I agree that the herd mentality is the default.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/397189/ethical-subjectivism#post_3539462


When I was 16, my sister was 15...My sisters boyfriend and mine decided to swim across the lake and back...Dan said he could do it, and Bruce said he could too. My sister could swim pretty good, but she knew she couldn't got all the way there and back, so she stayed on the shore with me because I couldn't swim...just dog paddle and not very well at that. They made it to one side, and was on the way back, but by the time they reached the middle, Bruce began to get tired. My boyfriend was trying to help him, but Bruce was struggling, and Dan shouted for a log that was in the water nearby...my sister panicked and stated screaming "What should I do, what should I do???" I yelled back so I could be heard over her screaming, to help me push him the log. She stood there holding her hands to her face .... So I pushed the log by myself, but it didn't go very far out (by myself I didn't have the momentum needed)...What did I do, without thinking I jumped into the lake and held the log kicking to get it out there to him.

The reticules scene: Now poor Bruce was holding one end of the log...I had the other end of the log, the log would roll and Bruce would start to panic and call out "Danny, Danny!" and Dan would swim to him to help him get stabilized, then I would panic because the log was rolling and I would cry out "Danny, Danny!" and he would swim to me to help me....after about three back and forth jaunts like that, Dan said "just hang on to the damn log" and he got in the middle and pushed us to shore.

Another time sitting in my grandfathers apartment looking out the window...a gang member was beating a man with a 2x4...I ducked down below the window so the man could tell who called out...I yelled "I called the police, they are on their way!" The gang member clocked the fellow 2 or 3 more times and took off. If the gangs in Chicago were to know who called the cops, they would burn our house down, my Grandfather was worried, and kept a vigil at the window all night. I had never called the cops, there wasn't time, just for the creep to think the cops were coming saved the guys life, nothing happened to my grandfathers house.

So I think I can honestly say, that in the event I were to witness something such as the scenario Phixer described, I would have done something...it's my nature to help someone not thinking of my own safety. LOL...Not that I would be much help, but I'm sure I would try.

But prior to the lake incident had someone asked you what you would do in that situation do you think you would have said you'd jump in the water to help save him? Situations create heroes when people act on instinct. Had you thought about it long enough you might have come to the conclusion your lack of swimming skills would make the situation worse and stayed ashore.

 

[phixer]

Why then would people remain idle? Because so many do , is it then our natural impulse to spectate as the herd does in nature when one is injured?

The point Im attempting to make is that sometimes our natural instincts are right. Since this circumstance occurs pretty often within crowds of people all over the world it implies that the herd mentality is natural to humans no matter how much we think we are above nature we are part of it instinctively and the herd mentality applies to us. Disclaimer, bold statement incoming... The herd becomes stronger by shedding the weak.

It's important to look at the positive side of this story even if we may not like to acknowledge it because socially we have been conditioned to believe it's wrong to do so, but instinctively and naturally we know different.

Is it wrong to think....Thats one less person in traffic polluting the environment and consuming resources and fish need to eat too. IMHO, I could be wrong...