everything died

[jazzyz]

i went to the pet store for supplies on my 92 gallon corner tank that i just started a couple days ago.the guy at the store told me i have to put fish in there so the tank cycles right. he said i neede 9 little damsels. my brother told me not to and said it was too soon, but i guess i was itchin to have the fish so i listend to the store guy. anyway, all day yesterday they were fine. checked the water yesterday for everything. sg was 1.021, ammomnia was .25, nitrite and nitarte wwere all zero, and ph was like 8.2-8.4. water was 80 degress and crystal clear. i wake up this morning and all was well. fed them a couple flakes. at 12 noon saw them they were all fine. then at 4pm i was leaving. i passed by the tank and the water was cloudy again and all the fish were dead. i was so mad. i tested the water again. everythign was the same except teh ammonnia went down to 0, and the ph went 7.4. what happened here. after the obligitory i told u so's from my brother he couldnt come up w an answer besides sayin too much too soon. but what actually happend???? should i take the dead lil guys out or let them sit in there for cyclin reasons???

 

[sinner's girl]

tank didn't cycle, you killed your fish.
ago.the guy at the store told me i have to put fish in there so the tank cycles right. he said i neede 9 little damsels.
pet store just wanted to make money, find another one.
On the bright side, the cycle is started, keep it fishless till the cycle is complete. Am=0, nirtites =0, Nitrates under 20, ph 8.2-8.4, temp 78, sg 1.023-1.026 or so.
Take the dead fish out.
but what actually happend?
what happened was you didn't do an research and you killed fish. YOu should never add 9 fish at once! even in 92, maybe in a really big tank, but not yours.
First, you MUST cycle your tank, am will kill fish, though normally damsels are hardy little guys, but your tank could support the fish.
So, now what you do is wait. And while you're waiting you read on here, and you buy or borrow a few books, and learn about the animals you want to keep. and you never, ever trust people selling stuff until they prove they can be trusted.

 

[susieq]

I'm sorry your fish died. I waited about 3 months before I put fish in my tank. You just started too soon. Good Luck.

 

[toyshika]

Originally Posted by jazzyz
i went to the pet store for supplies on my 92 gallon corner tank that i just started a couple days ago.the guy at the store told me i have to put fish in there so the tank cycles right. he said i neede 9 little damsels. my brother told me not to and said it was too soon, but i guess i was itchin to have the fish so i listend to the store guy. anyway, all day yesterday they were fine. checked the water yesterday for everything. sg was 1.021, ammomnia was .25, nitrite and nitarte wwere all zero, and ph was like 8.2-8.4. water was 80 degress and crystal clear. i wake up this morning and all was well. fed them a couple flakes. at 12 noon saw them they were all fine. then at 4pm i was leaving. i passed by the tank and the water was cloudy again and all the fish were dead. i was so mad. i tested the water again. everythign was the same except teh ammonnia went down to 0, and the ph went 7.4. what happened here. after the obligitory i told u so's from my brother he couldnt come up w an answer besides sayin too much too soon. but what actually happend???? should i take the dead lil guys out or let them sit in there for cyclin reasons???

I'm sorry your fish died too--the person at the store didn't know what they were talking about. In this hobby, we get excited, and want fish, I know--my son keeps begging me. I have a tank full of inverts right now, which keeps him happy. I finally after two months, got a Lawnmower Blenny on Monday. I finally saw him today, which means he is alive! I was so scared, thought he was dead behind the rocks. As your tank cycles, and when it finally hits all zero's, add inverts only. Add your first fish sometime at the end of next month. I hope this helps, and good luck!

 

[sinner's girl]

dd your first fish sometime at the end of next month. I hope this helps, and good luck!
UMM NO!!

You give someone a time. Add your frist fish ONLY once your levels are ideal! some cycle may take longer than others, there is no set time that you can tell people.
Am=0, Nitrites=0, Nitrates=>20, Ph 8.4, ect
Once you see am spike, you'll see nitrites and nitrates, once you no longer have am or nitrites do a water change to get your nitrates under 20, only then should you add fish. And you shouldn't inverts untill your tank has cycled either.
We can't alway blame the person at the store, they are just trying to make a living. It's our responsiblity to research and learn about an animal before buying!

 

[toyshika]

Originally Posted by Sinner's Girl
UMM NO!!

You give someone a time. Add your frist fish ONLY once your levels are ideal! some cycle may take longer than others, there is no set time that you can tell people.
Am=0, Nitrites=0, Nitrates=>20, Ph 8.4, ect
Once you see am spike, you'll see nitrites and nitrates, once you no longer have am or nitrites do a water change to get your nitrates under 20, only then should you add fish. And you shouldn't inverts untill your tank has cycled either.
We can't alway blame the person at the store, they are just trying to make a living. It's our responsiblity to research and learn about an animal before buying!

I think she understood that all levels need to be zero, which is why I said sometime at the end of next month, really focused on the inverts. Sorry for the confusion! :-0)

 

[sinner's girl]

Just making sure, never hurts to repeat something anyway. I didn't want jazzyz that the end of next was okay (although, chances are it should be,) without him/her testing.

I still love this guy!

 

[jazzyz]

Originally Posted by Sinner's Girl
We can't alway blame the person at the store, they are just trying to make a living. It's our responsiblity to research and learn about an animal before buying!

first off i appreciate everyones response. but i have to disagree with u here sinner's. fraud is not excusable. granted i didnt do all the research i shouldve, which is my fault, it is common human decency to tell the truth. to me, im an internet shopper, love buying online. but one of the reasons ill go to a store is to pick the clerks brain on something. ill then buy the usually outrageously priced product because of this "help" i received. for this guy to lie to my face causing me to kill 9 living fish and lose 60 bucks is downright wrong and beyond that it is horrible business, i wouldve been a lifetime customer of the guys spending thousands of dollars. this idiot killed the golden goose. well being that this is brooklyn, im getting my damn money back no matter what. one thing i still dont understand is how did the tank kill the fish. i thought that it was ammonia or nitrites that kill fish. my levels of am actually went down after i added the fish. im assuming it was the sudden drop of the PH but what specifically caused this??
ps- this guy also sold me refigerated nitrosoma bacteria at 15$ a pop. does this stuff do anythhing??

 

[angrycrab]

Originally Posted by jazzyz
drop of the PH but what specifically caused this??
ps- this guy also sold me refigerated nitrosoma bacteria at 15$ a pop. does this stuff do anythhing??
I had good luck with this in the past, but i didnt use it on my new set up, not sure why :notsure:

 

[symon]

#1 Your tank was in the process of cycling, Ammonia was at .25 i think you said, You added 9 fish, which increased the bioload, Probably shot the Ammonia up over .50+/-
Ammonia in any lvls can kill quicly!

#2 He did not lie to you , he merely sold you fish! It is your job to research and know what you can and can not have!

#3 I know for a fact that many of the EXPERTS here have done excatly the same thing, so don't take it to hard! Just remember that Patience is the key to success in this hobby! :joy:
I was going to add that many people belive that cycling with live fish is an accepted practice! But no it is not!
Good Luck and keep your chin up!

 

[maxalmon]

$60 for 9 damsels, wow even thats a rip, there 3.95 at my LFS. Part of what bugs me with this is that this is a prime example of rushing into this hobby without doing your research, plus someone in your family gave you good advice but you took the LFS over his. Granted everyone is at fault here, but it's no excuse and it's a valuable lesson. I hope that you will alsways remember what happened. On the postive side, have you researched what your first fish will be when the tank is actually ready?

 

[jazzyz]

yeah everything in nyc is expensive. my first fish.... im thinking a sailfin tang

 

[sw65galma]

Personally I'd go back to the LFS and tell them...either
A. Give you $60 credit for ripping you off.
or
B. Loose a customer for life...

 

[maxalmon]

SW65, i'm not picking on you and i'm talking in a general way about newcomers who don't do the proper research, please don't take this the wrong way........................I have to play devils advocate here. In this hobby, unless you have an established relationship with an experienced person or LFS that you TRUST, it's up to YOU to research and make informed decisions. I think all to often that we want to blame someone else for our mistakes and this is not a hobby thats very forgiving. Granted, the FS shouldn't have sold him 9 damsels thats just stupidity, ignorance or greed on their part. If SW65 had posted a "help - what to do" on SWF, many members would have pointed him in the correct direction. He admitted he went against his brothers advice, didn't researced the whole cycle issue, didn't ask for help from the members of this forum and then purchased 9 damsels. Why? because as he mentioned, he was rushing it

Who's more to blame?

 

[sinner's girl]

How long is your tank? tangs should be in at least 6ft, and they don't make good first fish. Your tank really should be established before adding a tang and tangs can be aggressive so you might not be able to add other fish. Be sure you QT before adding.
but i have to disagree with u here sinner's. fraud is not excusable.
It may not even be fraud. They *think* it's okay, just like the lfs guy told me 7.8 was ideal ph for saltwater. The people selling the stuff are not required to know anything about what they are selling. You have to learn to question. Would you buy a car or digital camera or a house without doing research? I'd hope not, you can't always trust the person selling something.
this guy to lie to my face causing me to kill 9 living fish and lose 60 bucks is downright wrong and beyond that it is horrible business,
If you honestly feel he was lying then report it with the BBB. Many people use damsel to cycle tanks, it's not right imo, but it works. Also, take it up with the manager, tell the manager what happened, that you feel the guy misled you. Ask for a store credit or your money back. Some store offer guarantees.
AND, now you know and can help educate other on the matter. good luck with the tank.

 

[bluelagoon]

it's just a matter of 'sales puffing'. a lfs worker telling you that 'this yellow tang will be great in a 30 gal tank' is quite the same as a used car dealer saying 'the previous owner only drove this car back and forth to church on sunday'. most people know not to believe what a used car guy tells you, that you should test drive the car, stop by the mechanic's and have them take a look. just like you should read a book or ask an experienced hobbyist what they think of something.
you live and you learn! everyone is going to screw up at some point in this hobby. just be glad it was 60 bucks worth of damsels and not 100 bucks worth of your favorite fish!
good luck with your tank, and don't forget to research and ask questions!!

 

[sufunk]

Everyone here seems to think you have to "research" before you buy which i agree with. However, the problem is that many people, especially newbies, think that asking questions at the lfs is researching. People assume that a person selling fish knows something about them. People on this board like to slam "newbies" for not researching but unless youre actually on the chat board, research is HARD! You can go on 10 different sites and get 10 different answers about fish or corals and even if you are on the chat board you get conflicting or no answers at all many times.
Even on here, many fish and corals are listed as easy care when they are almost impossible. This site definitely doesnt inform you that elegant corals are almost impossible to keep instead it calls it an "ideal centerpiece" and there are many other examples. How come the "experts" who like to slam newbies for not "researching" dont all email swf to make sure that their descriptions of fish and corals are accurate for newbies trying to research their fish and coral purchases????????

 

[sw65galma]

Originally Posted by maxalmon
SW65, i'm not picking on you and i'm talking in a general way about newcomers who don't do the proper research, please don't take this the wrong way........................I have to play devils advocate here. In this hobby, unless you have an established relationship with an experienced person or LFS that you TRUST, it's up to YOU to research and make informed decisions. I think all to often that we want to blame someone else for our mistakes and this is not a hobby thats very forgiving. Granted, the FS shouldn't have sold him 9 damsels thats just stupidity, ignorance or greed on their part. If SW65 had posted a "help - what to do" on SWF, many members would have pointed him in the correct direction. He admitted he went against his brothers advice, didn't researced the whole cycle issue, didn't ask for help from the members of this forum and then purchased 9 damsels. Why? because as he mentioned, he was rushing it

Who's more to blame?
So what your saying is that if there were a label on food that said "Good for you, you should eat it 3 times a day!" and the food was a doughnut..what you are syaing is that you should research it first before you eat it thinking its good for you...
No that would be false advertising?? Well the LFS are "false advertising fish"
If you went to say...Wallyworld and bought some fish...well there you can't expect experts...
But you goto a PET STORE , you'd expect them to know about PETS..whatever it is they sell.
I goto a car parts store...when I ask for a throwout bearing for a Mustang I expect them to ask me what kind of mustang, year, etc...
There is an Assumed knowledge that you expect from the place you buy stuff from...Especially a SPECIALTY Store..like not a Wallyworld that happens to sell fish as well..
I don't expect every store to know everything about ever species of fish and live stock ever made....But Every store worker that deals with saltwater fish, should know about how to tell a n00b how to cycle a tank... or say "i don't know let me get someone who can tell you...or read this book!"
I know what you saying and ultimatley we are responsible...but I do think it's fair to expect some basic knowledge from places that sell things...to know abou things they sell.
Otherwise whenever you go anywhere to buy anything you'd have to research it..this is why they have many laws about fraud and advertising.

 

[jazzyz]

Originally Posted by sw65galma
So what your saying is that if there were a label on food that said "Good for you, you should eat it 3 times a day!" and the food was a doughnut..what you are syaing is that you should research it first before you eat it thinking its good for you...
No that would be false advertising?? Well the LFS are "false advertising fish"
If you went to say...Wallyworld and bought some fish...well there you can't expect experts...
But you goto a PET STORE , you'd expect them to know about PETS..whatever it is they sell.
I goto a car parts store...when I ask for a throwout bearing for a Mustang I expect them to ask me what kind of mustang, year, etc...
There is an Assumed knowledge that you expect from the place you buy stuff from...Especially a SPECIALTY Store..like not a Wallyworld that happens to sell fish as well..
I don't expect every store to know everything about ever species of fish and live stock ever made....But Every store worker that deals with saltwater fish, should know about how to tell a n00b how to cycle a tank... or say "i don't know let me get someone who can tell you...or read this book!"
I know what you saying and ultimatley we are responsible...but I do think it's fair to expect some basic knowledge from places that sell things...to know abou things they sell.
Otherwise whenever you go anywhere to buy anything you'd have to research it..this is why they have many laws about fraud and advertising.
thank u. what i wanted to say but didnt have th eright words to.

 

[sw65galma]

Originally Posted by jazzyz
thank u. what i wanted to say but didnt have th eright words to.
I've been there so I know how you feel.