Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

pezenfuego

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/260#post_3491404
Hi,
...the Hebrew word Behemoth is a word to mean a reference to any large beast of the land dwellers, from the Hippo to the elephant to a dinosaur. Because of the way the beast is discribed, the Rabbi's interperated it to mean a hippo....which is why you see that in the translation.
The word there is different than the word found in Genesis 1:21. The Hebrew word is Tanniym it means any large monster of the sea or of the land. Now that reference could very well mean the dinosaurs. They were created a day before man....LOL...one of God's days.
Job 41 concerning The burning torches does not mean a fire, like in a fire breathing dragon, it doesn't mean fire at all, it means a breath that is very hot. After having my dog pant and breathe on me, I understand exactly what was meant. My dog is very tiny compared to a giant whatever was being referenced at that point.
Also, as to whether or not the prophets actually saw a dinosaur makes no difference. The point is they knew about them
and used them to discribe a point they were trying to make. You can't take it any more literal than a woman having eyes like a deer or skin made of milk. That also includes the giant monsters that coud fly.
I always find it amusing when scientists get all excited and declare they have discovered something, and the something is already mentioned in the Holy writings. Dinosaur bones is one such discovery. The people of the books knew about them, and I think that's just awesome.
When I was eight years old Bill Nye told me that dinosaurs and humans never lived at the same time. If you are trying to argue that science inhibits progress and that we should look toward holy scripture to progress our civilization, then I am appalled.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by PEZenfuego http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/280#post_3491413
When I was eight years old Bill Nye told me that dinosaurs and humans never lived at the same time. If you are trying to argue that science inhibits progress and that we should look toward holy scripture to progress our civilization, then I am appalled.
No Pez...I'm saying that the Holy books are not so "full of faith and nothing is real" Science is not the art of building bridges by the way...big muscled men with hard hats build them, and architects designed them. Bridges have been built in the Amazon forest by naked little men who never knew anything about science....They wanted to get to the other side and built rope bridges.
The coliseums are mentioned in the Holy writings too...does that mean that because it was mentioned in the books their existence should be tossed out as garbage information?
The Holy books have all kinds of intersting information, so it isn't a leap of faith asking people to jump off a bridge. You insult me with your nasty mean spirited picture. So...I'm appalled.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Hi,
...the Hebrew word Behemoth is a word to mean a reference to any large beast of the land dwellers, from the Hippo to the elephant to a dinosaur.  Because of the way the beast is discribed, the Rabbi's interperated it to mean a hippo....which is why you see that in the translation.
The word there is different than the word found in Genesis 1:21. The Hebrew word is Tanniym it means any large monster of the sea or of the land. Now that reference could very well mean the dinosaurs. They were created a day before man....LOL...one of God's days.
Job 41 concerning The burning torches does not mean a fire, like in a fire breathing dragon, it doesn't mean fire at all, it means a breath that is very hot. After having my dog pant and breathe on me, I understand exactly what was meant. My dog is very tiny compared to a giant whatever was being referenced at that point.
Also, as to whether or not the prophets actually saw a dinosaur makes no difference. The point is they knew about them
and used them to discribe a point they were trying to make. You can't take it any more literal than a woman having eyes like a deer or skin made of milk. That also includes the giant monsters that coud fly.
I always find it amusing when scientists get all excited and declare they have discovered something, and the something is already mentioned in the Holy writings. Dinosaur bones is one such discovery. The people of the books knew about them, and I think that's just awesome.
Thank you.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/260#post_3491404
Hi,
...the Hebrew word Behemoth is a word to mean a reference to any large beast of the land dwellers, from the Hippo to the elephant to a dinosaur. Because of the way the beast is discribed, the Rabbi's interperated it to mean a hippo....which is why you see that in the translation.
The word there is different than the word found in Genesis 1:21. The Hebrew word is Tanniym it means any large monster of the sea or of the land. Now that reference could very well mean the dinosaurs. They were created a day before man....LOL...one of God's days.
Job 41 concerning The burning torches does not mean a fire, like in a fire breathing dragon, it doesn't mean fire at all, it means a breath that is very hot. After having my dog pant and breathe on me, I understand exactly what was meant. My dog is very tiny compared to a giant whatever was being referenced at that point.
Also, as to whether or not the prophets actually saw a dinosaur makes no difference. The point is they knew about them
and used them to discribe a point they were trying to make. You can't take it any more literal than a woman having eyes like a deer or skin made of milk. That also includes the giant monsters that coud fly.
I always find it amusing when scientists get all excited and declare they have discovered something, and the something is already mentioned in the Holy writings. Dinosaur bones is one such discovery. The people of the books knew about them, and I think that's just awesome.
Yet another interpretation of some phrase written a couple thousand years ago, that was translated who knows how many times. I don't know know where you think they knew about dinosaurs. But then again, dinosaur fossils could've been prevelent back then, and were lying around all over the place. You think the discovery of dinosaur bones was limited to the last couple of centuries?
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Some of the translations I saw said "swayed" instead of "move". Those who study this suggest that a it may be an elephant because the end of their tail resembles a cedar? And they sway their tail.....bottom line, if the experts don't know, we don't either!
Truthfully, its hard to argue that we are talking about biblical figures being around millions of years ago. The history that is available to us in the Bible suggest a few thousand years ago, not a few million years ago.
 

pezenfuego

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/280#post_3491417
No Pez...I'm saying that the Holy books are not so "full of faith and nothing is real" Science is not the art of building bridges by the way...big muscled men with hard hats build them, and architects designed them. Bridges have been built in the Amazon forest by naked little men who never knew anything about science....They wanted to get to the other side and built rope bridges.

The coliseums are mentioned in the Holy writings too...does that mean that because it was mentioned in the books their existence should be tossed out as garbage information?
The Holy books have all kinds of intersting information, so it isn't a leap of faith asking people to jump off a bridge. You insult me with your nasty mean spirited picture. So...I'm appalled.
It wasn't mean spirited, and I believe it is called a metaphor...but what do I know?
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by PEZenfuego http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/280#post_3491413
When I was eight years old Bill Nye told me that dinosaurs and humans never lived at the same time. If you are trying to argue that science inhibits progress and that we should look toward holy scripture to progress our civilization, then I am appalled.

If you take things you watch on TV as fact then you are worse off than people who think the world is 5000 years old.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Some of the translations I saw said "swayed" instead of "move".   Those who study this suggest that a it may be an elephant because the end of their tail resembles a cedar?  And they sway their tail.....bottom line, if the experts don't know, we don't either!
Truthfully, its hard to argue that we are talking about biblical figures being around millions of years ago.  The history that is available to us in the Bible suggest a few thousand years ago, not a few million years ago.

How are fossils formed? Would it be possible to say, 5000 years ago there were dinosaurs, but lack of fossilized evidence due to lack of fossil creating environment tells us otherwise. How many animals have gone extinct in the last 200 years. Are there any fossilized remains to coincide with their recent existance?
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
It wasn't mean spirited, and I believe it is called a metaphor...but what do I know?
And you wonder why I treat your posts the way I do.
Darth (Kids should be seen and not heard) Tang
P.S. try and figure out why your quote is rude.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Wow. A lot has been said since i last got on. I havent read anything yet, but will comment when I do.
Im in the process of moving and i am almost completely done with the moving out part and cleaning. Next comes the puttin it all away part that i dont like. Hard to get anything done when watching a six month old. Anyways, my internet should be on by the beginning of next week. Hopefully i will get some time between classes to get on the forums some.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/280#post_3491451
How are fossils formed? Would it be possible to say, 5000 years ago there were dinosaurs, but lack of fossilized evidence due to lack of fossil creating environment tells us otherwise. How many animals have gone extinct in the last 200 years. Are there any fossilized remains to coincide with their recent existance?
"Lack of fossil creating environment"? One perspective:

It can take anywhere from a few years, to a few thousand years





It depends on the conditions surrounding the bone. The bone must be buried where the minerals are that will eventually enter the bone and create the fossil. Then it depends on the kinds and amounts of minerals available in the soil, how soluable they are, how much water is in the soil, how deeply the bone is buried/pressure on the bone, and other things like temperature and bacteria.
A bone left on the surface are exposed to temperature changes, humidity changes, wind, and other forces. In dry climates, sun bleached bones can be found years after the animal died. The difference between out in the open and in a cave depend on the differences in environment. There is less sunlight in a cave, but there is sometimes more moisture in a cave. There is less wind in a cave, but more chance that other animals will use the cave for shelter and disturb the bone. I would say that the bone would last longer in the cave if the cave does not ever flood, being protected from storms and sunlight, if there are no bacteria or fungi present to decompose the bone.




Palentologists use carbon dating on known existing dinosaur bones to determine how old they are. They also use the same procedure to determine age based on where the bones were found in the earth, and how old the surrounding ground is where the bones were uncovered. As someone whose as well educated as you, I find it inconceivable that you honestly believe dinosaurs existed less than several million years ago. You want to toss known exact science out the window, and expect someone to believe it's untrue simply because of your belief in some book.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by PEZenfuego http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/280#post_3491435
It wasn't mean spirited, and I believe it is called a metaphor...but what do I know?
Well, maybe I was a bit rough on you. You obviously meant no harm, and you don't even know why I considered it a rude mean spirited post. LOL...it definately was not a metaphor. So I apologize. You are certainly entitled to an opinion.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member

I am not trying to be annoying. I'm just trying to help, bud.
Yeah, and I am the resident poster child for etiquette and politeness in the aquarium.
Darth (look a sandbox) Tang
 

kiefers

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/280#post_3491439
If you take things you watch on TV as fact then you are worse off than people who think the world is 5000 years old.
With the picture posted, I was always taught if you jumped off the bridge....... it would hurt
Kief (commen sense)ers
The use of the ( ) is a registered trademark of Darth Inc. Any use of the ( ) is strictly prohibited.
 

pezenfuego

Active Member
Building bridges is a metaphor for advancing the world. It was not meant to be taken at face-value and insinuate that scientists are responsible for literally building bridges.
I do believe that religious classes should be offered, but not forced. Whether we like it or not, Christianity is a part of our culture and learning about our culture (as well as other cultures) is important. And I see nothing wrong with teaching evolution in the classroom. I was taught about evolution since forth grade, but the word was avoided like the plague. It was subtle. Teaching a biology class without teaching evolution is silly. As is teaching creationism as a science. But religion is important and should be offered. I'd take a class on biblical literature if it was offered in high school. I will almost certainly take one here in college.
 
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