Evolution vs. Intelligent Design
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flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/240#post_3491281
Actually, atoms have been seen - just google "atom photograph", but more convincing are the thousands of experiments that are consistent with the existence of atoms, and inconsistent with any other view of matter. Scientists don't theorize about the existence of atoms, but do theorize about the forces that hold them together, for example.
YaYYYY...they actually have a photograph???? Wow, I have never actually seen one, and neither have you. You know nowadays with the ability of the digital camera, you can make a human turn into a cat right before your eyes. You know if Jesus was standing by a persons side and somebody took a picture, would you believe it? If somebody took a picture of a giant old man on a throne in the clouds...would you believe it? You want to know something else....if a person told you they really did see God in the clouds, and were an eye witness....would you believe them? If you were to actually see an angel and told everyone on this site...the very same people who believe in God would believe you, but they would be the only ones, those who don't believe would say all kinds of stuff, and most likely try to explain what you might have seen but was mistaken on what it really was.
I am not doubting the existence of the atom. I was using it as an example of a real thing with a lack of proof. You see my point is that even a picture is not proof, if you don't want to accept something like the atom, you can find a way and a reason. A photograph is not proof of anything anymore. If somebody wrote about the atom, you would have to put some faith in the person doing the writing. And you can answer this post with a ton of credentials on the person who did the writing about the atom....so what does that prove?...I have books upon books of eye witness accounts of people with experience concerning God...yet you don't believe their accounts
For those who believe, no proof is needed, for those who don't believe, no amount of proof is enough.
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/240#post_3491281
Actually, atoms have been seen - just google "atom photograph", but more convincing are the thousands of experiments that are consistent with the existence of atoms, and inconsistent with any other view of matter. Scientists don't theorize about the existence of atoms, but do theorize about the forces that hold them together, for example.
YaYYYY...they actually have a photograph???? Wow, I have never actually seen one, and neither have you. You know nowadays with the ability of the digital camera, you can make a human turn into a cat right before your eyes. You know if Jesus was standing by a persons side and somebody took a picture, would you believe it? If somebody took a picture of a giant old man on a throne in the clouds...would you believe it? You want to know something else....if a person told you they really did see God in the clouds, and were an eye witness....would you believe them? If you were to actually see an angel and told everyone on this site...the very same people who believe in God would believe you, but they would be the only ones, those who don't believe would say all kinds of stuff, and most likely try to explain what you might have seen but was mistaken on what it really was.
I am not doubting the existence of the atom. I was using it as an example of a real thing with a lack of proof. You see my point is that even a picture is not proof, if you don't want to accept something like the atom, you can find a way and a reason. A photograph is not proof of anything anymore. If somebody wrote about the atom, you would have to put some faith in the person doing the writing. And you can answer this post with a ton of credentials on the person who did the writing about the atom....so what does that prove?...I have books upon books of eye witness accounts of people with experience concerning God...yet you don't believe their accounts
For those who believe, no proof is needed, for those who don't believe, no amount of proof is enough.
pezenfuego
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/260#post_3491294
YaYYYY...they actually have a photograph???? Wow, I have never actually seen one, and neither have you. You know nowadays with the ability of the digital camera, you can make a human turn into a cat right before your eyes. You know if Jesus was standing by a persons side and somebody took a picture, would you believe it? If somebody took a picture of a giant old man on a throne in the clouds...would you believe it? You want to know something else....if a person told you they really did see God in the clouds, and were an eye witness....would you believe them? If you were to actually see an angel and told everyone on this site...the very same people who believe in God would believe you, but they would be the only ones, those who don't believe would say all kinds of stuff, and most likely try to explain what you might have seen but was mistaken on what it really was.
I am not doubting the existence of the atom. I was using it as an example of a real thing with a lack of proof. You see my point is that even a picture is not proof, if you don't want to accept something like the atom, you can find a way and a reason. A photograph is not proof of anything anymore. If somebody wrote about the atom, you would have to put some faith in the person doing the writing. And you can answer this post with a ton of credentials on the person who did the writing about the atom....so what does that prove?...I have books upon books of eye witness accounts of people with experience concerning God...yet you don't believe their accounts
For those who believe, no proof is needed, for those who don't believe, no amount of proof is enough.
Actually, for me, any amount of proof is enough...but therein lies the problem.
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/260#post_3491294
YaYYYY...they actually have a photograph???? Wow, I have never actually seen one, and neither have you. You know nowadays with the ability of the digital camera, you can make a human turn into a cat right before your eyes. You know if Jesus was standing by a persons side and somebody took a picture, would you believe it? If somebody took a picture of a giant old man on a throne in the clouds...would you believe it? You want to know something else....if a person told you they really did see God in the clouds, and were an eye witness....would you believe them? If you were to actually see an angel and told everyone on this site...the very same people who believe in God would believe you, but they would be the only ones, those who don't believe would say all kinds of stuff, and most likely try to explain what you might have seen but was mistaken on what it really was.
I am not doubting the existence of the atom. I was using it as an example of a real thing with a lack of proof. You see my point is that even a picture is not proof, if you don't want to accept something like the atom, you can find a way and a reason. A photograph is not proof of anything anymore. If somebody wrote about the atom, you would have to put some faith in the person doing the writing. And you can answer this post with a ton of credentials on the person who did the writing about the atom....so what does that prove?...I have books upon books of eye witness accounts of people with experience concerning God...yet you don't believe their accounts
For those who believe, no proof is needed, for those who don't believe, no amount of proof is enough.
Actually, for me, any amount of proof is enough...but therein lies the problem.
You can not argue about one's faith. There are many historical sources dating back thousands of years that archaeologist and historians take seriously to find out what happened back then; the ancient text that comprise the bible is one of those sources and has impacted much of world history for thousands of years. That millions of people that take some of the events described in those text literally and believe it based on profound faith is not really a point to be argued. Faith and belief is the answer for them, not science that may contradict those beliefs.
Speaking of dinosaurs, if all the animals were created during the biblical creation, how would most larger mammals, including man, have survived in an environment that included such colossal predators? Also, the Old Testament books have no mention of such animals which surely would have played a major role in human life.
Speaking of dinosaurs, if all the animals were created during the biblical creation, how would most larger mammals, including man, have survived in an environment that included such colossal predators? Also, the Old Testament books have no mention of such animals which surely would have played a major role in human life.
bionicarm
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/240#post_3491291
Okay...so why bother to address anything further that I post? I don't believe in the Easter bunny, or Santa....I say I don't believe in it and why, and move on. I was aware of what you thought 3 posts ago...but you just keep repeating.
So I think I got by now...you are born, you get some fun, you die and then you are worm food. You know, I have never seen anyone actually be eaten by worms. I have read about decomposition. I believe the accounts of the people who have seen it. Appearently you believe their accounts too. You know what...I agree with you...people die and get eaten by worms. There, do you feel better now?
All you have to do is dig up a buried body that's been in the ground for a year or so to see what decomposition looks like. Religious people just say that's an empty shell after the soul has left its human form.
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/240#post_3491291
Okay...so why bother to address anything further that I post? I don't believe in the Easter bunny, or Santa....I say I don't believe in it and why, and move on. I was aware of what you thought 3 posts ago...but you just keep repeating.
So I think I got by now...you are born, you get some fun, you die and then you are worm food. You know, I have never seen anyone actually be eaten by worms. I have read about decomposition. I believe the accounts of the people who have seen it. Appearently you believe their accounts too. You know what...I agree with you...people die and get eaten by worms. There, do you feel better now?
All you have to do is dig up a buried body that's been in the ground for a year or so to see what decomposition looks like. Religious people just say that's an empty shell after the soul has left its human form.
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/240#post_3491217
But what does science say? The scientist could say pigs come from hamsters also. But science won't agree
Science says there was no beginning.
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/240#post_3491217
But what does science say? The scientist could say pigs come from hamsters also. But science won't agree
Science says there was no beginning.
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/240#post_3491261
LOL...The chicken, God spoke and the creatures came forth.... and God saw that it was good, then commanded them to be fruitful and multiply.
But to me it was the egg because I observed that before a chicken. LOL
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/240#post_3491261
LOL...The chicken, God spoke and the creatures came forth.... and God saw that it was good, then commanded them to be fruitful and multiply.
But to me it was the egg because I observed that before a chicken. LOL
bionicarm
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/260#post_3491294
YaYYYY...they actually have a photograph???? Wow, I have never actually seen one, and neither have you. You know nowadays with the ability of the digital camera, you can make a human turn into a cat right before your eyes. You know if Jesus was standing by a persons side and somebody took a picture, would you believe it? If somebody took a picture of a giant old man on a throne in the clouds...would you believe it? You want to know something else....if a person told you they really did see God in the clouds, and were an eye witness....would you believe them? If you were to actually see an angel and told everyone on this site...the very same people who believe in God would believe you, but they would be the only ones, those who don't believe would say all kinds of stuff, and most likely try to explain what you might have seen but was mistaken on what it really was.
I am not doubting the existence of the atom. I was using it as an example of a real thing with a lack of proof. You see my point is that even a picture is not proof, if you don't want to accept something like the atom, you can find a way and a reason. A photograph is not proof of anything anymore. If somebody wrote about the atom, you would have to put some faith in the person doing the writing. And you can answer this post with a ton of credentials on the person who did the writing about the atom....so what does that prove?...I have books upon books of eye witness accounts of people with experience concerning God...yet you don't believe their accounts
For those who believe, no proof is needed, for those who don't believe, no amount of proof is enough.
There's a couple of pieces of toast, and recently some bird droppings on someone's car that they swear resemble the face of Jesus (or is it the Virgin Mary) that you can buy off of Ebay.
If you ask Michelle Bachman, she swears God told her to run for President. After her epic fail, I guess he was busy talking to one of the other candidates that said the same thing. Oh wait, they failed miserably also. Guess we have to rely on the Mormon testament that God lives near the planet Kolob.
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/260#post_3491294
YaYYYY...they actually have a photograph???? Wow, I have never actually seen one, and neither have you. You know nowadays with the ability of the digital camera, you can make a human turn into a cat right before your eyes. You know if Jesus was standing by a persons side and somebody took a picture, would you believe it? If somebody took a picture of a giant old man on a throne in the clouds...would you believe it? You want to know something else....if a person told you they really did see God in the clouds, and were an eye witness....would you believe them? If you were to actually see an angel and told everyone on this site...the very same people who believe in God would believe you, but they would be the only ones, those who don't believe would say all kinds of stuff, and most likely try to explain what you might have seen but was mistaken on what it really was.
I am not doubting the existence of the atom. I was using it as an example of a real thing with a lack of proof. You see my point is that even a picture is not proof, if you don't want to accept something like the atom, you can find a way and a reason. A photograph is not proof of anything anymore. If somebody wrote about the atom, you would have to put some faith in the person doing the writing. And you can answer this post with a ton of credentials on the person who did the writing about the atom....so what does that prove?...I have books upon books of eye witness accounts of people with experience concerning God...yet you don't believe their accounts
For those who believe, no proof is needed, for those who don't believe, no amount of proof is enough.
There's a couple of pieces of toast, and recently some bird droppings on someone's car that they swear resemble the face of Jesus (or is it the Virgin Mary) that you can buy off of Ebay.
If you ask Michelle Bachman, she swears God told her to run for President. After her epic fail, I guess he was busy talking to one of the other candidates that said the same thing. Oh wait, they failed miserably also. Guess we have to rely on the Mormon testament that God lives near the planet Kolob.
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/260#post_3491300
All you have to do is dig up a buried body that's been in the ground for a year or so to see what decomposition looks like. Religious people just say that's an empty shell after the soul has left its human form.
You know you could be arrested for doing that right? You know, after reading the stuff you post I'm beginning to be concerned for your sanity....do you take medication...are you alright?
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/260#post_3491300
All you have to do is dig up a buried body that's been in the ground for a year or so to see what decomposition looks like. Religious people just say that's an empty shell after the soul has left its human form.
You know you could be arrested for doing that right? You know, after reading the stuff you post I'm beginning to be concerned for your sanity....do you take medication...are you alright?
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/260#post_3491297
You can not argue about one's faith. There are many historical sources dating back thousands of years that archaeologist and historians take seriously to find out what happened back then; the ancient text that comprise the bible is one of those sources and has impacted much of world history for thousands of years. That millions of people that take some of the events described in those text literally and believe it based on profound faith is not really a point to be argued. Faith and belief is the answer for them, not science that may contradict those beliefs.
Speaking of dinosaurs, if all the animals were created during the biblical creation, how would most larger mammals, including man, have survived in an environment that included such colossal predators? Also, the Old Testament books have no mention of such animals which surely would have played a major role in human life.
For reference at this moment all I have on hand without digging out all my volumes on the subject is my Stone edition of the Tanach. Rashi (the translator) was the kind of fellow to ad lib texts to what he thought they meant. My late husband refused to use the Stones version for Torah study. So what I'm quoting from isn't as reliable as other texts I have in my collection. The Bible does give a sentence...LOL...just a sentence, that on the 5th day God created the great sea-giants and every living being that creeps Gen 1:21 ..(.remember how long a day was if the sun and moon were created on the 4th day...man was not created until the 6th day, so that's quite a bit of time between them.)
Now if you want and you are interested, I can look up in the Hebrew and see exacly what was written, to see where Rashi got that idea, and why he translated it as he did. I'm pretty sure the king James version says the same thing. I said all that because I think it would be an interesting study of the scriptures to see if dinosaurs are even mentioned.
Concerning the first part of your post...True enough, so I quit arguing proofs.
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/260#post_3491297
You can not argue about one's faith. There are many historical sources dating back thousands of years that archaeologist and historians take seriously to find out what happened back then; the ancient text that comprise the bible is one of those sources and has impacted much of world history for thousands of years. That millions of people that take some of the events described in those text literally and believe it based on profound faith is not really a point to be argued. Faith and belief is the answer for them, not science that may contradict those beliefs.
Speaking of dinosaurs, if all the animals were created during the biblical creation, how would most larger mammals, including man, have survived in an environment that included such colossal predators? Also, the Old Testament books have no mention of such animals which surely would have played a major role in human life.
For reference at this moment all I have on hand without digging out all my volumes on the subject is my Stone edition of the Tanach. Rashi (the translator) was the kind of fellow to ad lib texts to what he thought they meant. My late husband refused to use the Stones version for Torah study. So what I'm quoting from isn't as reliable as other texts I have in my collection. The Bible does give a sentence...LOL...just a sentence, that on the 5th day God created the great sea-giants and every living being that creeps Gen 1:21 ..(.remember how long a day was if the sun and moon were created on the 4th day...man was not created until the 6th day, so that's quite a bit of time between them.)
Now if you want and you are interested, I can look up in the Hebrew and see exacly what was written, to see where Rashi got that idea, and why he translated it as he did. I'm pretty sure the king James version says the same thing. I said all that because I think it would be an interesting study of the scriptures to see if dinosaurs are even mentioned.
Concerning the first part of your post...True enough, so I quit arguing proofs.
darthtang aw
Active Member
Leave it to bionic to interject bitterness and sarcasm into a good debate and discussion just because he hates all things pertaining to faith.
darthtang aw
Active Member
The cedar tree mentioned in the bible was a symbol of strength, beauty, power and long life. Even now there are still specimens in existence that are over one thousand years old. Solomon used it to build his magnificent temple. Obviously they would not use puny saplings for lumber. If this were our culture and times we would be referring to the mighty oak tree. The cedar tree is an extremely long lived tree. Specimens 1000-2000 years old would no doubt have been extremely plentiful then. Even now there are still some of the beautiful specimens still in Lebanon. As any one knows old trees are extremely large in diameter. We are talking about 10 -20 feet. The book of job chapter 40 states that a monstrous animal "Behemoth" that has a tail like a cedar tree This then refers to a very large diameter tail. .Contrast that with a hippo tail or even an elephant tail which are thin like a piece of rope; They are designed to swat flies. So what animal do you think Job had in mind?
The book of Job also mentions another monstrous animal in chapter 41. Here is some of that description. "..Out of his mouth go burning torches. He regards iron as straw...the arrow cannot make him flee...nothing on earth is like him....one made without fear. You can read a full 34 verses that describe this awesomely horrible animal.
The book of Isaiah has in it a reference to a flying serpent. This is found in chapter 30 verse 6. It is included with a list of commonly known animals to us i.e. lion, viper, donkey. Apparently at that time this was just another of the animals found in that region of the world. In our day and age we know of no flying reptiles at present. We believe this was another form of dinosaur that died out years ago but was alive in the days of Isaiah.
The book of Job also mentions another monstrous animal in chapter 41. Here is some of that description. "..Out of his mouth go burning torches. He regards iron as straw...the arrow cannot make him flee...nothing on earth is like him....one made without fear. You can read a full 34 verses that describe this awesomely horrible animal.
The book of Isaiah has in it a reference to a flying serpent. This is found in chapter 30 verse 6. It is included with a list of commonly known animals to us i.e. lion, viper, donkey. Apparently at that time this was just another of the animals found in that region of the world. In our day and age we know of no flying reptiles at present. We believe this was another form of dinosaur that died out years ago but was alive in the days of Isaiah.
bionicarm
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/260#post_3491357
The cedar tree mentioned in the bible was a symbol of strength, beauty, power and long life. Even now there are still specimens in existence that are over one thousand years old. Solomon used it to build his magnificent temple. Obviously they would not use puny saplings for lumber. If this were our culture and times we would be referring to the mighty oak tree. The cedar tree is an extremely long lived tree. Specimens 1000-2000 years old would no doubt have been extremely plentiful then. Even now there are still some of the beautiful specimens still in Lebanon. As any one knows old trees are extremely large in diameter. We are talking about 10 -20 feet. The book of job chapter 40 states that a monstrous animal "Behemoth" that has a tail like a cedar tree This then refers to a very large diameter tail. .Contrast that with a hippo tail or even an elephant tail which are thin like a piece of rope; They are designed to swat flies. So what animal do you think Job had in mind?
The book of Job also mentions another monstrous animal in chapter 41. Here is some of that description. "..Out of his mouth go burning torches. He regards iron as straw...the arrow cannot make him flee...nothing on earth is like him....one made without fear. You can read a full 34 verses that describe this awesomely horrible animal.
The book of Isaiah has in it a reference to a flying serpent. This is found in chapter 30 verse 6. It is included with a list of commonly known animals to us i.e. lion, viper, donkey. Apparently at that time this was just another of the animals found in that region of the world. In our day and age we know of no flying reptiles at present. We believe this was another form of dinosaur that died out years ago but was alive in the days of Isaiah.
90% of what's written in the Bible is conjecture and up for interpretation. When that book was written in its original language, scholars of the day made their own translations as to the meanings of each passage. Who knows how many times they were modified by the time you got to what's known as the King James Version. Anyone can write something in a book. Doesn't make it true. The Book of Job was written when, 2000 years ago? Were those passages intended to be written in first person speak, as an account of what the author saw? If so, wouldn't you think there would be evidence in the form of fossils of these flying serpents that breathed fire? Pterodactyls were one of the few "flying dinosaurs" known to exist. but they only existed during the Jurassic Period which was some 150 million years ago. You have evidence that these intelligent scholars existed back then?
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/260#post_3491357
The cedar tree mentioned in the bible was a symbol of strength, beauty, power and long life. Even now there are still specimens in existence that are over one thousand years old. Solomon used it to build his magnificent temple. Obviously they would not use puny saplings for lumber. If this were our culture and times we would be referring to the mighty oak tree. The cedar tree is an extremely long lived tree. Specimens 1000-2000 years old would no doubt have been extremely plentiful then. Even now there are still some of the beautiful specimens still in Lebanon. As any one knows old trees are extremely large in diameter. We are talking about 10 -20 feet. The book of job chapter 40 states that a monstrous animal "Behemoth" that has a tail like a cedar tree This then refers to a very large diameter tail. .Contrast that with a hippo tail or even an elephant tail which are thin like a piece of rope; They are designed to swat flies. So what animal do you think Job had in mind?
The book of Job also mentions another monstrous animal in chapter 41. Here is some of that description. "..Out of his mouth go burning torches. He regards iron as straw...the arrow cannot make him flee...nothing on earth is like him....one made without fear. You can read a full 34 verses that describe this awesomely horrible animal.
The book of Isaiah has in it a reference to a flying serpent. This is found in chapter 30 verse 6. It is included with a list of commonly known animals to us i.e. lion, viper, donkey. Apparently at that time this was just another of the animals found in that region of the world. In our day and age we know of no flying reptiles at present. We believe this was another form of dinosaur that died out years ago but was alive in the days of Isaiah.
90% of what's written in the Bible is conjecture and up for interpretation. When that book was written in its original language, scholars of the day made their own translations as to the meanings of each passage. Who knows how many times they were modified by the time you got to what's known as the King James Version. Anyone can write something in a book. Doesn't make it true. The Book of Job was written when, 2000 years ago? Were those passages intended to be written in first person speak, as an account of what the author saw? If so, wouldn't you think there would be evidence in the form of fossils of these flying serpents that breathed fire? Pterodactyls were one of the few "flying dinosaurs" known to exist. but they only existed during the Jurassic Period which was some 150 million years ago. You have evidence that these intelligent scholars existed back then?
bang guy
Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/260#post_3491357
The cedar tree mentioned in the bible was a symbol of strength, beauty, power and long life. Even now there are still specimens in existence that are over one thousand years old. Solomon used it to build his magnificent temple. Obviously they would not use puny saplings for lumber. If this were our culture and times we would be referring to the mighty oak tree. The cedar tree is an extremely long lived tree. Specimens 1000-2000 years old would no doubt have been extremely plentiful then. Even now there are still some of the beautiful specimens still in Lebanon. As any one knows old trees are extremely large in diameter. We are talking about 10 -20 feet. The book of job chapter 40 states that a monstrous animal "Behemoth" that has a tail like a cedar tree This then refers to a very large diameter tail. .Contrast that with a hippo tail or even an elephant tail which are thin like a piece of rope; They are designed to swat flies. So what animal do you think Job had in mind?
Saltwater CROC
The book of Job also mentions another monstrous animal in chapter 41. Here is some of that description. "..Out of his mouth go burning torches. He regards iron as straw...the arrow cannot make him flee...nothing on earth is like him....one made without fear. You can read a full 34 verses that describe this awesomely horrible animal.
A Dragon
The book of Isaiah has in it a reference to a flying serpent. This is found in chapter 30 verse 6. It is included with a list of commonly known animals to us i.e. lion, viper, donkey. Apparently at that time this was just another of the animals found in that region of the world. In our day and age we know of no flying reptiles at present. We believe this was another form of dinosaur that died out years ago but was alive in the days of Isaiah.
Gliding Snake
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/260#post_3491357
The cedar tree mentioned in the bible was a symbol of strength, beauty, power and long life. Even now there are still specimens in existence that are over one thousand years old. Solomon used it to build his magnificent temple. Obviously they would not use puny saplings for lumber. If this were our culture and times we would be referring to the mighty oak tree. The cedar tree is an extremely long lived tree. Specimens 1000-2000 years old would no doubt have been extremely plentiful then. Even now there are still some of the beautiful specimens still in Lebanon. As any one knows old trees are extremely large in diameter. We are talking about 10 -20 feet. The book of job chapter 40 states that a monstrous animal "Behemoth" that has a tail like a cedar tree This then refers to a very large diameter tail. .Contrast that with a hippo tail or even an elephant tail which are thin like a piece of rope; They are designed to swat flies. So what animal do you think Job had in mind?
Saltwater CROC
The book of Job also mentions another monstrous animal in chapter 41. Here is some of that description. "..Out of his mouth go burning torches. He regards iron as straw...the arrow cannot make him flee...nothing on earth is like him....one made without fear. You can read a full 34 verses that describe this awesomely horrible animal.
A Dragon
The book of Isaiah has in it a reference to a flying serpent. This is found in chapter 30 verse 6. It is included with a list of commonly known animals to us i.e. lion, viper, donkey. Apparently at that time this was just another of the animals found in that region of the world. In our day and age we know of no flying reptiles at present. We believe this was another form of dinosaur that died out years ago but was alive in the days of Isaiah.
Gliding Snake
Job 40:15-24
King James Version (KJV)
[sup]15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
[sup]16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
[sup]17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
[sup]18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
[sup]19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
20 [/sup]Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
21 [/sup]He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22 [/sup]The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
23 [/sup]Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24 [/sup]He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.
The behemoth ate grass and was able to lie down. And is small enough to lie beneth trees-- reeds and ferns--in an area of the world where tress were not tall at all.
Iyov 40:15-24
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
40-15" id="en-OJB-19532">[sup]15 Hinei now behemot (hippopotamus), which I made along with thee; he eateth grass like an ox.
[sup]16 Hinei now, his koach is in his loins, and his force is in the sinews of his beten (belly).
[sup]17 He moveth his zanav (tail) like a cedar branch; the sinews of his thighs are firmly interwoven.
[sup]18 His atzmot are like tubes of nechoshet; his limbs are like rods of barzel (iron).
[sup]19 He is the reshit (firstling) of the ways of El; He, his Maker, can approach it with His cherev.
20 [/sup]Surely the harim bring forth food for him, where all the wild beasts play.
21 [/sup]He lieth under the shade of lotus plants, beseter (in the covert) of the reed and marsh.
22 [/sup]The lotus plants cover him with their shadow; the willows by the nakhal (brook, stream) surround him.
23 [/sup]See, when the nahar (river) rages, he is not alarmed; he is confident, though Yarden breaketh forth upon his mouth.
24 [/sup]While he is looking can one capture him? With mokeshim (hooks) can one pierce his nose?
I believe the Hebrew translation is a better one since we are talking about ancient Hebrews. They say it was a hippo.
darthtang aw
Active Member
Job 40:15-24
King James Version (KJV)
[sup]15
Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
[sup]16
Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
[sup]17
He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
[sup]18
His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
[sup]19
He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
[sup]20
Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
[sup]21 [/sup]
He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22 [/sup]
The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
23 [/sup]
Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24 [/sup]
He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.
The behemoth ate grass and was able to lie down. And is small enough to lie beneth trees-- reeds and ferns--in an area of the world where tress were not tall at all.
Iyov 40:15-24
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
15 [/sup]
Hinei now behemot (hippopotamus), which I made along with thee; he eateth grass like an ox.
16 [/sup]
Hinei now, his koach is in his loins, and his force is in the sinews of his beten (belly).
17 [/sup]
He moveth his zanav (tail) like a cedar branch; the sinews of his thighs are firmly interwoven.
yle="margin-top:1em;">[sup]18
His atzmot are like tubes of nechoshet; his limbs are like rods of barzel (iron).
[sup]19
He is the reshit (firstling) of the ways of El; He, his Maker, can approach it with His cherev.
[sup]20
Surely the harim bring forth food for him, where all the wild beasts play.
[sup]21 [/sup]
He lieth under the shade of lotus plants, beseter (in the covert) of the reed and marsh.
22 [/sup]
The lotus plants cover him with their shadow; the willows by the nakhal (brook, stream) surround him.
23 [/sup]
See, when the nahar (river) rages, he is not alarmed; he is confident, though Yarden breaketh forth upon his mouth.
24 [/sup]
While he is looking can one capture him? With mokeshim (hooks) can one pierce his nose?
I believe the Hebrew translation is a better one since we are talking about ancient Hebrews. They say it was a hippo.
does a hippos tail move like a cedar?
How do we know the trees were short?
Just questions, not arguing.
bionicarm
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/260#post_3491399
does a hippos tail move like a cedar?
How do we know the trees were short?
Just questions, not arguing.
How do the branches on a cedar tree move?
Cedar trees on my property are as small as 4 feet, and as tall as 20. Where does it say what kind of tree the animal was lying under? If it was "in the covert of the reed, and fens", that would imply it was been "covered" or "camouflaged" by the reeds and fens (whatever those are). Seems to me it wouldn't be very tall if it could hide in reeds. Just sayin'...
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/260#post_3491399
does a hippos tail move like a cedar?
How do we know the trees were short?
Just questions, not arguing.
How do the branches on a cedar tree move?
Cedar trees on my property are as small as 4 feet, and as tall as 20. Where does it say what kind of tree the animal was lying under? If it was "in the covert of the reed, and fens", that would imply it was been "covered" or "camouflaged" by the reeds and fens (whatever those are). Seems to me it wouldn't be very tall if it could hide in reeds. Just sayin'...
darthtang aw
Active Member
How do the branches on a cedar tree move?
Cedar trees on my property are as small as 4 feet, and as tall as 20. Where does it say what kind of tree the animal was lying under? If it was "in the covert of the reed, and fens", that would imply it was been "covered" or "camouflaged" by the reeds and fens (whatever those are). Seems to me it wouldn't be very tall if it could hide in reeds. Just sayin'...
How long have those trees been on your property?
look up a video of a hippo tail moving. Then tell me if your trees move the same way. or any tree for that matter.
Cedar trees on my property are as small as 4 feet, and as tall as 20. Where does it say what kind of tree the animal was lying under? If it was "in the covert of the reed, and fens", that would imply it was been "covered" or "camouflaged" by the reeds and fens (whatever those are). Seems to me it wouldn't be very tall if it could hide in reeds. Just sayin'...
How long have those trees been on your property?
look up a video of a hippo tail moving. Then tell me if your trees move the same way. or any tree for that matter.
flower
Well-Known Member
Hi,
...the Hebrew word Behemoth is a word to mean a reference to any large beast of the land dwellers, from the Hippo to the elephant to a dinosaur. Because of the way the beast is discribed, the Rabbi's interperated it to mean a hippo....which is why you see that in the translation.
The word there is different than the word found in Genesis 1:21. The Hebrew word is Tanniym it means any large monster of the sea or of the land. Now that reference could very well mean the dinosaurs. They were created a day before man....LOL...one of God's days.
Job 41 concerning The burning torches does not mean a fire, like in a fire breathing dragon, it doesn't mean fire at all, it means a breath that is very hot. After having my dog pant and breathe on me, I understand exactly what was meant. My dog is very tiny compared to a giant whatever was being referenced at that point.
Also, as to whether or not the prophets actually saw a dinosaur makes no difference. The point is they knew about them and used them to discribe a point they were trying to make. You can't take it any more literal than a woman having eyes like a deer or skin made of milk. That also includes the giant monsters that coud fly.
I always find it amusing when scientists get all excited and declare they have discovered something, and the something is already mentioned in the Holy writings. Dinosaur bones is one such discovery. The people of the books knew about them, and I think that's just awesome.
...the Hebrew word Behemoth is a word to mean a reference to any large beast of the land dwellers, from the Hippo to the elephant to a dinosaur. Because of the way the beast is discribed, the Rabbi's interperated it to mean a hippo....which is why you see that in the translation.
The word there is different than the word found in Genesis 1:21. The Hebrew word is Tanniym it means any large monster of the sea or of the land. Now that reference could very well mean the dinosaurs. They were created a day before man....LOL...one of God's days.
Job 41 concerning The burning torches does not mean a fire, like in a fire breathing dragon, it doesn't mean fire at all, it means a breath that is very hot. After having my dog pant and breathe on me, I understand exactly what was meant. My dog is very tiny compared to a giant whatever was being referenced at that point.
Also, as to whether or not the prophets actually saw a dinosaur makes no difference. The point is they knew about them and used them to discribe a point they were trying to make. You can't take it any more literal than a woman having eyes like a deer or skin made of milk. That also includes the giant monsters that coud fly.
I always find it amusing when scientists get all excited and declare they have discovered something, and the something is already mentioned in the Holy writings. Dinosaur bones is one such discovery. The people of the books knew about them, and I think that's just awesome.