Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
With all of the school topics that have popped up in The Aquarium lately - I assume because it's back to school time for many of our younger member - I thought that an open discussion on Evolution vs. Intelligent Design might be something that can be discussed on the boards.
I know that this might become a heated debate, so please keep any bashing, inappropriate, flaming and trolling down to a minimum as to keep this thread open.
Before we begin, lets define evolution and intelligent design so that we are not confused.
Evolution as defined by Dictionary.com: the change in gene pool of a population from generation to generation by such prosesses as mutation, natural selection and genetic drift.
Basically, the Earth was created approximately 4.6 billion years ago. Through time and proper conditions amino acids were created which bound together to form the basis of singular cells which became more complex in their structures and gave way to multicellular organisms and through genetic mutation, drift and natural selection (Darwin). Over millions of years, life has evolved into more and more complex organisms which has yeilded our current biosphere.
Intelligent Design as defined by the Discovery Institute as the proposition that "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection."
There are several different intelligent design theories out there. One states that it was impossible for the universe to create life without a creator and through time and a guided evolutionary processes, our current Biosphere exists where it is today. Then, there are the literal Bible intelligent design people were the Earth was created nearly six thousand years ago and explained through the book of Genesis, where God (well, there are two creation stories in the book of Genesis) created man and everything else or created everything else and then man (and that is the way is is and that is the way it will always be, period. Type of people.)
What do you believe?
Why do you believe what you believe?
How do you explain life as you know it today?
How should this topic be handled in a public school setting, albeit grade school, high school, or college level courses?
I am going to be a Biology teacher soon and I know that I have to be careful of what I say. So, I am just presenting this information and letting you all have the discussion which I will try to participate in.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
I believe in evolution but I don't believe humans simply evolved right along with the rest of the lifeforms on this planet. We are too radically different than other species. Dog, Dingo, Hyena, Coyote, Wolf. Whale, Dolphin, Seal. Bird, Ostrich, Penguin. Snake, Lizard, Salamander. Human, Ape? Seems like a stretch to me. Why did we evolve in such a unique way so radically different from all other species?
 
sweatervest13

sweatervest13

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design#post_3489834
With all of the school topics that have popped up in The Aquarium lately - I assume because it's back to school time for many of our younger member - I thought that an open discussion on Evolution vs. Intelligent Design might be something that can be discussed on the boards.
I know that this might become a heated debate, so please keep any bashing, inappropriate, flaming and trolling down to a minimum as to keep this thread open.
Before we begin, lets define evolution and intelligent design so that we are not confused.
Evolution as defined by Dictionary.com: the change in gene pool of a population from generation to generation by such prosesses as mutation, natural selection and genetic drift.
Basically, the Earth was created approximately 4.6 billion years ago. Through time and proper conditions amino acids were created which bound together to form the basis of singular cells which became more complex in their structures and gave way to multicellular organisms and through genetic mutation, drift and natural selection (Darwin). Over millions of years, life has evolved into more and more complex organisms which has yeilded our current biosphere.
Intelligent Design as defined by the Discovery Institute as the proposition that "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection."
There are several different intelligent design theories out there. One states that it was impossible for the universe to create life without a creator and through time and a guided evolutionary processes, our current Biosphere exists where it is today. Then, there are the literal Bible intelligent design people were the Earth was created nearly six thousand years ago and explained through the book of Genesis, where God (well, there are two creation stories in the book of Genesis) created man and everything else or created everything else and then man (and that is the way is is and that is the way it will always be, period. Type of people.)
What do you believe? Evolution
Why do you believe what you believe? Because I can read... JK I believe that science has proved evolution, through fossils records and research into species.
How do you explain life as you know it today? A miracle!! So much had to happen billions of years ago to make the perfect storm of factors to make life at the microscopic level even possible. Then it evolved from there.
How should this topic be handled in a public school setting, albeit grade school, high school, or college level courses? This should be taught in all schools. Heavier the older kids get.
I am going to be a Biology teacher soon and I know that I have to be careful of what I say. So, I am just presenting this information and letting you all have the discussion which I will try to participate in.
IMO evolution is why we are all here right now. Mutation and test for survival... IF something worked for a species then that trait would be bread into the next generations. Over millions of generations you can get some pretty interesting deviations from the original.
Just look at clownfish breeding in the last 10 years. Times that by 100 million and just imagine what could be possible.
I find it awkward that some creationists believe that dinosaurs and humans walked around the earth 6000 years ago together.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweatervest13 http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design#post_3489851
IMO evolution is why we are all here right now. Mutation and test for survival... IF something worked for a species then that trait would be bread into the next generations. Over millions of generations you can get some pretty interesting deviations from the original.
Just look at clownfish breeding in the last 10 years. Times that by 100 million and just imagine what could be possible.
I find it awkward that creationists believe that dinosaurs and humans walked around the earth 6000 years ago together.
I find it awkward you presume all creationists believe that.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Lol, I watched one of those shows the history channel has been running, since they're getting more and more conspiratorial.
But they proposed, based on some science that shows a currently undefined genome, unexplainable by current evolutional theory. This undefinable spark they hypothesize is the biological difference between us and apes... Giving us language, cognitive thought, etc.
They attribute it to aliens. It was quite entertaining...
Why can't we have walked around with Dino's? Seriously why would that be so preposterous? What is a croc, gater, alligator snapping turtle?
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
I believe the science and religion as logic systems rest on mutually exclusive assumptions. And can therefore never be reconcilled.
Science for one thing assumes that whatever we observe came from (evolved from?) whatever was before. So nothing is ever created nor destroyed.
Religion believes in something that is ultimate with infinite power that can and does create or destroy things.
Evolution is science with biological human evolution just a subset of that basic assumption.
Intelligent design is religious and can never be tested let alone "proven" by religious logic. After all intelligence is not measureable like forces. And of course design assumes a designer which violoates scientific assumptions.
my .02
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
For all I know a space alien named God came down in his space ship and dropped off a couple pets he called Adam and Eve and went homeLOL!
When did time begin?
Where does the universe end?
How were the stars and planets created?
How was what or who created them created?
I believe in God. This all didn't just happen.
 
sweatervest13

sweatervest13

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design#post_3489864
Lol, I watched one of those shows the history channel has been running, since they're getting more and more conspiratorial.
But they proposed, based on some science that shows a currently undefined genome, unexplainable by current evolutional theory. This undefinable spark they hypothesize is the biological difference between us and apes... Giving us language, cognitive thought, etc.
They attribute it to aliens. It was quite entertaining...
Why can't we have walked around with Dino's? Seriously why would that be so preposterous? What is a croc, gater, alligator snapping turtle?
LOL. I heard that about he aliens before. Crazy.
About the dinos... I meant that SOME think that early humans (like from 6000 years ago) walked around with T-rex and stuff. lol
It is my belief that Dinos evolved into birds. Which means that we all walk around with them today. LOL.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Speaking of aliens - how many who subscribe to Intelligent Design as the ONLY possibility believe that it is not possible for life to exist anywhere else in the universe?
Personally, I do not see any reason why these two beliefs cannot both be right at the same time. Reread what Beaslbob wrote. I see no reason to dispute his post.
 
sweat90lx

sweat90lx

Member
Ill try to behave. This subject could get out if hand quickly.
I believe what I believe, nobody will ever change that. The universe didnt start with a bang and life was created.
I do believe there is more to this single planet than anyone knows, much less the rest of our universe(or others).
The discovery channel says there may be mermaids. I hope there are, and maybe they are reef safe. lol
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
I don't think the Bible precludes any other life in the universe. It simply doesn't talk about it. Psalms 19:1 "The heavens declare the glory of God...". So, the Scripture could actually be hinting at the presence of others in the universe who are glorifying God.
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
IN our system of government there is no limit on what an individual can believe, so evolution, intelligent design (ID) or creationism are on equal footing there. The greater concern is that non-scientific beliefs such as ID and creationism are attempting to infiltrate science classrooms in many school districts in the US. Science education in this county already lags behind many other developed, and some developing, countries. The insertion of non-scientific beliefs into science curricula can only accelerate that lag. Teaching theological, sectarian beliefs as science reminds me of the efforts of a state legislature to pass a law that pi should be 3.00 instead of 3.1416.... That is, to teach a view of the universe that reflects how we want it to be, rather than how it is. I would be glad to debate the scientific issues of evolution vs ID/creationism although there was a long thread on this topic several years ago in this forum.
 
sweatervest13

sweatervest13

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design#post_3490217
IN our system of government there is no limit on what an individual can believe, so evolution, intelligent design (ID) or creationism are on equal footing there. The greater concern is that non-scientific beliefs such as ID and creationism are attempting to infiltrate science classrooms in many school districts in the US. Science education in this county already lags behind many other developed, and some developing, countries. The insertion of non-scientific beliefs into science curricula can only accelerate that lag. Teaching theological, sectarian beliefs as science reminds me of the efforts of a state legislature to pass a law that pi should be 3.00 instead of 3.1416.... That is, to teach a view of the universe that reflects how we want it to be, rather than how it is. I would be glad to debate the scientific issues of evolution vs ID/creationism although there was a long thread on this topic several years ago in this forum.
Amen Brother!!
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Gee bang.
I must be getting better and better at posting as compared to 6 years ago.
For all others. Inside joke.
LOL
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweat90lx http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design#post_3489934
Ill try to behave. This subject could get out if hand quickly.
I believe what I believe, nobody will ever change that. The universe didnt start with a bang and life was created.
I do believe there is more to this single planet than anyone knows, much less the rest of our universe(or others).
The discovery channel says there may be mermaids. I hope there are, and maybe they are reef safe. lol
LOL...The most accurate words ever spoken. It matches us all.
What do I believe....
I believe that as science matures and we learn more and more, it will match scripture, I have watched it do so. The problem is that 99% of the folks don't understand the scriptures, and by being so set on what they are so sure of, they make themselves look rediculous and nobody gives the scriptures the respect they deserve.
The big bang...Well who says God didn't start it off with a bang? As for the time frame...The sun and the Moon (our time keeper signs) were not created until the 4th day. So folks can't be stupid and claim the Earth is 6000 years old while it obviosly isn't. Insisting on that one thing, makes folks loose confidence in scripture for the truth it is.
LOL...I don't believe we came from apes. I do believe each creature of creation was created unique. Yes, each of the species has indeed changed as environment and some mix breeding (the mule for example) has occured thru time. Humans have indeed changed over the years, that's why we have so many different races of people...yet we are all the same on the inside.
Should evolution be taught in school?...I don't care as long as they make sure the student UNDERSTANDS...science on evolution is a THEORY. It is not based on any facts, it was an idea Darwin thought of....it is based on what they understand so far....that theory has shifted and changed as knowledge increases, even Darwin was ashamed of himself in the end for the damage it did causing people to stop believing in God. Folks took his theory and ran like idiots with it, just like the folks who found some twisted idea on a scripture and founded a new religion on it.
Religion has no place to be taught in the schools, because each family has their own belief system that they follow. As a believer in the faith of Isreal, I don't want my kids doing the Christian holidays, or learning to pray to the different gods of the Hindus....no more than I can expect them to believe and follow my personal belief system. I also believe that each family according to THEIR faith should have the needed Holidays off (The work place too). Xmas means nothing to me, and I don't care if I had it off or not...Whan I worked, I needed Rosh Hashanah off, and had to use my vacation days to do so. Every year it's a battle with the schools to allow our kids to be off on the High Holidays.
If the students of the same faith want to get together and have a praying pow-wow before of after school...fine! That should be allowed, it shouldn't be a big deal to let the kids get together, it's no different than a chess club meeting, but don't preach your beliefs to my kids...leave them alone.
There, I've said my piece.
 
kiefers

kiefers

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design#post_3490238
LOL...The most accurate words ever spoken. It matches us all.
What do I believe....
I believe that as science matures and we learn more and more, it will match scripture, I have watched it do so. The problem is that 99% of the folks don't understand the scriptures, and by being so set on what they are so sure of, they make themselves look rediculous and nobody gives the scriptures the respect they deserve.
The big bang...Well who says God didn't start it off with a bang? As for the time frame...The sun and the Moon (our time keeper signs) were not created until the 4th day. So folks can't be stupid and claim the Earth is 6000 years old while it obviosly isn't. Insisting on that one thing, makes folks loose confidence in scripture for the truth it is.
LOL...I don't believe we came from apes. I do believe each creature of creation was created unique.(who said God doesn't have a sense of humor? I think the apes were the first draft for man and oops, then God tried again Lol) Yes, each of the species has indeed changed as environment and some mix breeding (the mule for example) has occured thru time. Humans have indeed changed over the years, that's why we have so many different races of people...yet we are all the same on the inside.
Should evolution be taught in school?...I don't care as long as they make sure the student UNDERSTANDS...science on evolution is a THEORY. It is not based on any facts, it was an idea Darwin thought of....it is based on what they understand so far....that theory has shifted and changed as knowledge increases, even Darwin was ashamed of himself in the end for the damage it did causing people to stop believing in God. Folks took his theory and ran like idiots with it, just like the folks who found some twisted idea on a scripture and founded a new religion on it.
Religion has no place to be taught in the schools, because each family has their own belief system that they follow. As a believer in the faith of Isreal, I don't want my kids doing the Christian holidays, or learning to pray to the different gods of the Hindus....no more than I can expect them to believe and follow my personal belief system. I also believe that each family according to THEIR faith should have the needed Holidays off (The work place too). Xmas means nothing to me, and I don't care if I had it off or not...Whan I worked, I needed Rosh Hashanah off, and had to use my vacation days to do so. Every year it's a battle with the schools to allow our kids to be off on the High Holidays.
If the students of the same faith want to get together and have a praying pow-wow before of after school...fine! That should be allowed, it shouldn't be a big deal to let the kids get together, it's no different than a chess club meeting, but don't preach your beliefs to my kids...leave them alone.
There, I've said my piece.
This comes down to the greatest gift God gave to us which was "Choice".
We have the choice to believe and with that said, we as humans need proof of this God. It sorta puts faith on the back burner. I believe that Natural selection played a big role in evolution.
Natural selection acts to preserve and accumulate minor advantageous genetic mutations. Suppose a member of a species developed a functional advantage (it grew wings and learned to fly). Its offspring may inherit that advantage and pass it on to their offspring. The inferior (disadvantaged) members of the same species would gradually die out, leaving only the superior (advantaged) members of the species. Natural selection is the preservation of a functional advantage that enables a species to compete better in the wild. Natural selection is the naturalistic equivalent to domestic breeding. Over the centuries, human breeders have produced dramatic changes in domestic animal populations by selecting individuals to breed. Breeders eliminate undesirable traits gradually over time. Similarly, natural selection eliminates inferior species gradually over time.
I belive Darwin had an opinion similar to this.
Now I beleive in God and beleive he is the reason why we are here today, however, I believe that he just put the recipe together and allowed it to do as it will. His own expereiment if you will.
 
mr. limpid

mr. limpid

Active Member
I believe as I believe and you believe as you believe this what this great nation is all about. Classes about science fact should teach science facts, classes about religion should teach religious beliefs and it up to the child and parents to decided what the child takes as a course, they both should be offered in schools. I only have one question, if we evolved why did it stop, were is evolution today?
 
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