Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

kiefers

kiefers

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/40#post_3490429
Now we get down to word play-it depends on what "is" is. But let me give you a preview of where you're going and what I will disprove it with: The Law of Angular Momentum.
L=rxp..... hmmmm I recall this and this could resemble Keplers law as well however,not to get off of the topic.
Observation is an important aspect of science. Without observation you have nothing (JMO).
And i, without observation you have nothing to theorize or base a theory on.
I might have misunderstood your point
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
And that is why evolution is a theory of made up information. Because there is no scientific way to prove it, except that "really smart" people have said, "I think this is what happened", WITHOUT the slightest shred of evidence...except, "I'm smart, trust me".
 
kiefers

kiefers

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/60#post_3490433
And that is why evolution is a theory of made up information. Because there is no scientific way to prove it, except that "really smart" people have said, "I think this is what happened", WITHOUT the slightest shred of evidence...except, "I'm smart, trust me".
hence "global warming"
I see your point now, thanks for explaining it down a little
Some things just can't be proven. Mother earth and the universe covered up their secretes pretty well only giving what they think is needed.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
The scientific methodology will not prove anything. I don't get why people say "science hasn't proven that". It's like saying "that apple doesn't taste like milk". It's not supposed to.
Observations of Fruit Flies have provided a lot of evidence of evolution. There's a LOT of evidence in support of the theory. The Finches Darwin observed are one of the first pieces of evidence.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
If you want a vivid example of evolution look no further then dog. Going from a wild wolf 200,000 years ago, to domesticated wolf taken in by man, to the now wildly varied breeds of dog we have today. Man, not nature was wholly responsible for the creation of "the dog". So, if man can do this in so little time, you think that mother nature can not?
 
D

dragonzim

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/40#post_3490411
I love this statement: "Of course there's no proof but anyone who wants proof is scientifically ignorant." I gotcha right, Geri?
So because something can't be proven, or disproven, as long as evolutionary scientists say it, makes it so. And you are a doctor? Just, WOW! But, thank you for confirming everything I wrote. And with your total lack of evidence, you go for the "ignorant hick" line. Just classic.
The same can be said of faith and religion in general
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/60#post_3490440
If you want a vivid example of evolution look no further then dog. Going from a wild wolf 200,000 years ago, to domesticated wolf taken in by man, to the now wildly varied breeds of dog we have today. Man, not nature was wholly responsible for the creation of "the dog". So, if man can do this in so little time, you think that mother nature can not?
The dog evolved from a canine to start with. Just as the common house cat evolved from the Felines ... animals and people "evolve" However dogs did not become the bear that can walk on hind legs. The animal remaines true to it's basic creation...it does change, but not into something else.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Dogs, cats, rats,... They all have a common ancestor way back in the past. A wolf/canine didnt simply "come to be" and then evolve and neither did anything else.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/60#post_3490444
The dog evolved from a canine to start with. Just as the common house cat evolved from the Felines ... animals and people "evolve" However dogs did not become the bear that can walk on hind legs. The animal remaines true to it's basic creation...it does change, but not into something else.
Quote:
Modern dogs evolved from a line of carnivorous mammals called "canids," after the characteristic shape of their teeth. Before (and alongside) the canids, though, there were such diverse families of predators as amphicyonids (the "bear dogs," typified by Amphicyon, which seem to have been more closely related to bears than dogs), prehistoric hyenas (Ictitherium was the first of this group to live on the ground rather than in trees), and the "marsupial dogs" of South America and Australia. Although vaguely dog-like in appearance and behavior, these predators weren't directly ancestral to modern canines.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/60#post_3490444
The dog evolved from a canine to start with. Just as the common house cat evolved from the Felines ... animals and people "evolve" However dogs did not become the bear that can walk on hind legs. The animal remaines true to it's basic creation...it does change, but not into something else.
Are you sure? What about lizards that evolved into snakes. Totally different species now.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Why would humans evolve so radically different. Need for clothing rather than developing fur, high state of emotion that dictates most of our actions rather than instinct ect?
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/40#post_3490411
I love this statement: "Of course there's no proof but anyone who wants proof is scientifically ignorant." I gotcha right, Geri?
So because something can't be proven, or disproven, as long as evolutionary scientists say it, makes it so. And you are a doctor? Just, WOW! But, thank you for confirming everything I wrote. And with your total lack of evidence, you go for the "ignorant hick" line. Just classic.
You might try re-reading my post, and thinking about how you might "prove" a theory. Whatever you can do to prove any theory will be incomplete - that's just the logic of the situation. Theories ultimately get accepted based on the weight of evidence, but not on proof. However, disproving a theory is easy - just show one instance in which the theory is incorrect. For example, just show one instance in which a rabbit is fossilized in the identical stratum as a dinosaur and 50,000 evolutionary biologists will eagerly go back to the lab to rethink and reformulate a new theory that could include an explanation of such a finding. It is instructive that in 150 years there has not been one such finding to discredit the theory of evolution. I'm not sure why you think that "as long as evolutionary scientists say it, makes it so" is correct. Emergence of species over time is fact - all evolutionary biologists do is try to explain the mechanisms behind what is, and they do it with evidence. That's just science. Your claim of "total lack of evidence" does reflect your ignorance of the evidence, hundreds of thousands of pages of it, ranging from laboratory experiments to studies of fossils to observed speciation in the wild. So, don't equate my saying so with playing the hick card - I'm not. I'm just saying that you don't know the evidence, so you don't know how much there is-it has nothing to do with your intelligence or education or sophistication.
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/60#post_3490444
The dog evolved from a canine to start with. Just as the common house cat evolved from the Felines ... animals and people "evolve" However dogs did not become the bear that can walk on hind legs. The animal remaines true to it's basic creation...it does change, but not into something else.
But...where did the canines come from? The best evidence is that about 48 million years ago (mya) a group, the miacid, split into two groups. One, the feliformia, went on to become cats, hyenas and civits, among others. The other group was the caniformia, which went on to become bears, dogs, racoons, etc. You would not confuse a miacid, which was arboreal and had an elongated body, with either the felinoforms or caniforms. There are sufficient skeletal differences to guarantee that their appearance was quite different. So the miacidae did change into something else. If you want a greater change, the miacids came from the creodonts, which were slow, clumsy creatures, and further back were the therapsids, which were reptiles that evolved into mammals, none of which bear any resemblance to anything walking (or flying or creeping) around today.
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/60#post_3490463
Why would humans evolve so radically different. Need for clothing rather than developing fur, high state of emotion that dictates most of our actions rather than instinct ect?
In a fascinating book, "Ancestor's Tales", the author makes the point that humans think that we evolved to become the highest, most sophisticated form on the planet. Unfortunately, the giraffe thinks it is the most evolved since it can reach into trees for food, and those lowly humans have to climb or invent devices to do the same job. Of course, snakes think giraffes and humans are poseurs, and that only snakes have managed to work out how to slither - after all, they never stumble and fall, so they don't need orthopedic surgeons or yellow paint on the edge of steps. The point is that human beings are highly evolved to fit into their ecological niche, as are giraffes and snakes too.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/60#post_3490469
In a fascinating book, "Ancestor's Tales", the author makes the point that humans think that we evolved to become the highest, most sophisticated form on the planet. Unfortunately, the giraffe thinks it is the most evolved since it can reach into trees for food, and those lowly humans have to climb or invent devices to do the same job. Of course, snakes think giraffes and humans are poseurs, and that only snakes have managed to work out how to slither - after all, they never stumble and fall, so they don't need orthopedic surgeons or yellow paint on the edge of steps. The point is that human beings are highly evolved to fit into their ecological niche, as are giraffes and snakes too.
So then why haven't deer grown Kevlar fur so we can't shoot them :)
But thats the thing. We use devices. So do apes and they have for who knows how long but their device is limited to a twig used to pull termites out of a hole. Why no further evolution. I just don't buy it. Needing clothes is hardly an evolutionary advantage. Why would we have lost a fur coating through evolution? Just doesn't make sense to me.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/60#post_3490480
So then why haven't deer grown Kevlar fur so we can't shoot them :)
But thats the thing. We use devices. So do apes and they have for who knows how long but their device is limited to a twig used to pull termites out of a hole. Why no further evolution. I just don't buy it. Needing clothes is hardly an evolutionary advantage. Why would we have lost a fur coating through evolution? Just doesn't make sense to me.
... maybe apes haven't evolved enough just yet. Maybe in another million years they will be studying our bones and wondering why we didn't make it.
We haven't lost our hair... If I remember correctly, My arms, chest, legs and head is not bare. We don't have as much hair because ... and get this... our planet warmed up. Geologic events and climate change can definitely affect evolution.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/60#post_3490482
... maybe apes haven't evolved enough just yet. Maybe in another million years they will be studying our bones and wondering why we didn't make it.
We haven't lost our hair... If I remember correctly, My arms, chest, legs and head is not bare. We don't have as much hair because ... and get this... our planet warmed up. Geologic events and climate change can definitely affect evolution.
Then why don't we have enough not to need clothes to stay warm or get sun burn?
 
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