puffrbware
Member
I just got a 6 inch harlequin tusk... and my 4 inch yellow tang keeps swimming side to side on my tusk--and sometimes backing into it with its body.... can this stress him out-- i added him yesterday.
Fight??
- Thread starter puffrbware
- Start date
nicetry
Active Member
The tang is asserting itself and establishing dominance. This behavior should let up in a few days once the tang does not see the tusk as a threat. Stress does not cause ich. Either the fish have it or they don't. Many tanks see similar aggression and the related stress, but it does not bring about a parasitic outbreak. The tusk should be able to take care of itself, but watch to see the aggression does not carry on for more than a few days.
jedi
Member
Well...
1st, I agree with scooby, the Tang is probably using the bone or spike , on its tail and definatly causing damage. and Stress
Stress can cause a fish to loose its slime coat. This is a major factor in the devl[ment of ich on a fish.
So yes stress does cause ich.
Do as suggested, move the tank around a bit. This may or may not work. Try moving a couple corals.
If you dont see improvement in the next day, I would get one of them out.
Jedi
P.S. Hi scooby hope all is well, drop me an email.
1st, I agree with scooby, the Tang is probably using the bone or spike , on its tail and definatly causing damage. and Stress
Stress can cause a fish to loose its slime coat. This is a major factor in the devl[ment of ich on a fish.
So yes stress does cause ich.
Do as suggested, move the tank around a bit. This may or may not work. Try moving a couple corals.
If you dont see improvement in the next day, I would get one of them out.
Jedi
P.S. Hi scooby hope all is well, drop me an email.
nicetry
Active Member
Originally posted by jedi
Well...
1st, I agree with scooby, the Tang is probably using the bone or spike , on its tail and definatly causing damage. and Stress
Stress can cause a fish to loose its slime coat. This is a major factor in the devl[ment of ich on a fish.
So yes stress does cause ich.
If the tang were harming the tusk with it's caudal spine, you would see visible damage. It's not at all uncommon for a tang to exhibit this behavior with newly introduced fish. They don't always do damage, but will sometimes sidle up to a new fish and push it a bit to show the newcomer who is the boss.
Your info on ich in inaccurate. Ich is a parasite that must be introduced into a system via an infected fish. If none of the fish are infected or harboring the parasite, it is not in your system. Stress can cause temporary loss of some slime but this does not induce an outbreak of a parasite. It is a fallacy that ich is always present in a tank waiting for a stressful situation to bring it about.
fishieness
Active Member
but ick can be in your tank without you knowing it, that is until a stressful fish gets it
scubadoo
Active Member
Several species are prone to ich such as some tangs. Stress is always listed in articles by experts as a cause of ich as it weakens the immune system of fish. As long as there is a host fish in your aquarium, the chance is there that ich is present . This does not mean that an outbreak will occur.
Yes, these parasites can exist in your tank and you do not see any visible evidence thay are there. THere are several stages of ich...living on a host fish is just one stage.
Yes, these parasites can exist in your tank and you do not see any visible evidence thay are there. THere are several stages of ich...living on a host fish is just one stage.
puffrbware
Member
The truth is ich is in almost every tank...It all depends on how severe a case may be...Ich spreads,,thats what causes problems.. I never had a compatability issue.. I figured a huge wrasse will hold its own with a med tang
scubadoo
Active Member
Nicetry...your information is inaccurate regarding ich. IT is often present in aquariums...it is the fish and their immune system that fight off the disease and feep the parasite population under control.
A stressful situation...casued by a new intro to the aquarium or poor water quality can often trigger an outbreak.
A stressful situation...casued by a new intro to the aquarium or poor water quality can often trigger an outbreak.
nicetry
Active Member
Originally posted by ScubaDoo
Several species are prone to ich such as some tangs. Stress is always listed in articles by experts as a cause of ich as it weakens the immune system of fish. As long as there is a host fish in your aquarium, the chance is there that ich is present . This does not mean that an outbreak will occur.
Yes, these parasites can exist in your tank and you do not see any visible evidence thay are there. THere are several stages of ich...living on a host fish is just one stage.
Can you cite the sources of your information? Which articles by which experts are you referring to? I'm very familiar with the causes and life cycle of c. irritans. According to your account, ich is always present in a tank. Thus you would be saying that it is not possible to have a tank that is totally free from the paraiste. Is this what you're saying?
Again, inaccurate information. C. irritans can be iradicated from a system using the appropriate treatment methods. If ich were present in all tanks all the time, and stress was a trigger, the incidence would be much higher than it is. The parasite must be introduced into your tank via an infected fish. It can also be introduced in the tomite phase(free swimming) if you add contaminated water to your tank. Hence the warning of never allowing lfs water into your own system. In rare instances, the parasite can enter your system in the trophont stage, if they have landed on rock or other objects in the infected tank and are transferred into your system. It is, however, entirely possible to have a tank that has no evidence of ******.
scubadoo
Active Member
From Drs Faoster and Smith Vet staff...Cut and paste
Why do fish get Cryptocaryon?
Cryptocaryon is a parasite, and like most parasites it is very prevalent in the environment of the species it normally infects. Therefore, most wild fish are exposed to low levels of this parasite fairly frequently and are able to effectively fight off the infection without becoming seriously ill. What happens in an aquarium fish, however, is very different than what happens in a wild fish. In the wild, the number of free-floating Cryptocaryon per 100 gallons of water is extremely small. Whereas in a home aquarium with a relatively small volume of water and a concentrated population of fish, the number of Cryptocaryon has the opportunity to explode into a number hundreds of times higher than what would ever be experienced in the wild. The other thing that happens in a home aquarium is that the level of stress has the potential to be much more severe than what is found in the wild.
Almost all marine aquarium fish are wild caught, and in a period of several days their lives change dramatically. They go from living on the reef to being collected, handled, shipped, and re-handled repeatedly. When those fish finally enter the home aquarium, they are then subject to yet another change in water parameters, diet, temperature, and environment and may even be subject to aggression from existing tank mates. To say the least, these fish are severely stressed to the point that their immune system may not be functioning properly, making them very susceptible to infections and parasites like Cryptocaryon. In an existing tank in which the fish are healthy, the introduction of a new fish or a decrease in water quality or temperature fluctuations may stress the fish to the point that the Cryptocaryon protozoans that were present but not creating problems will then rapidly cause a more serious infection.
Why do fish get Cryptocaryon?
Cryptocaryon is a parasite, and like most parasites it is very prevalent in the environment of the species it normally infects. Therefore, most wild fish are exposed to low levels of this parasite fairly frequently and are able to effectively fight off the infection without becoming seriously ill. What happens in an aquarium fish, however, is very different than what happens in a wild fish. In the wild, the number of free-floating Cryptocaryon per 100 gallons of water is extremely small. Whereas in a home aquarium with a relatively small volume of water and a concentrated population of fish, the number of Cryptocaryon has the opportunity to explode into a number hundreds of times higher than what would ever be experienced in the wild. The other thing that happens in a home aquarium is that the level of stress has the potential to be much more severe than what is found in the wild.
Almost all marine aquarium fish are wild caught, and in a period of several days their lives change dramatically. They go from living on the reef to being collected, handled, shipped, and re-handled repeatedly. When those fish finally enter the home aquarium, they are then subject to yet another change in water parameters, diet, temperature, and environment and may even be subject to aggression from existing tank mates. To say the least, these fish are severely stressed to the point that their immune system may not be functioning properly, making them very susceptible to infections and parasites like Cryptocaryon. In an existing tank in which the fish are healthy, the introduction of a new fish or a decrease in water quality or temperature fluctuations may stress the fish to the point that the Cryptocaryon protozoans that were present but not creating problems will then rapidly cause a more serious infection.
scubadoo
Active Member
Nicetry....Please point to where I stated ich is ALWAYS present. I said it is often present and you are unaware it is there. Can you have an ich free tank...yes.
You did leave out another way ich can be introduced to your system....substrate from another tank such as live sand. My information is far from inaacurate.
There are differing opinions among the experts of which I am not. This one constant is true...at ICH must be present in order for an outbreak to occur.
You originaly posted stress does not induce an outbreak of ich. This is 100% inaccurate...as it is always listed as a condition that can cause an oubreak of the disease.
Please do not take what I have said and twist it as absolutes or always...often does not equal always.
You did leave out another way ich can be introduced to your system....substrate from another tank such as live sand. My information is far from inaacurate.
There are differing opinions among the experts of which I am not. This one constant is true...at ICH must be present in order for an outbreak to occur.
You originaly posted stress does not induce an outbreak of ich. This is 100% inaccurate...as it is always listed as a condition that can cause an oubreak of the disease.
Please do not take what I have said and twist it as absolutes or always...often does not equal always.
puffrbware
Member
I have a UV & Kick Ich just incase. But what i need to know is will the fighting stop.. Can i take the tang out for a week and put it back in... why isnt my tusk a fighter
fishnerd
Member
Nicetry IS correct.
C. irritans should be completely eradicated when proper quarantine of new fishes is done.
The analogy I will give is fleas on a cat... The cat was given a thorough anti-flea dip/treatments, kept indoors, and no other dogs, cats, etc enter the home the cat will never get fleas. Yes, sickness or stress is a way for a cat to become infested, but if there are no fleas to infest, it does'nt matter about the cat's health- there are no fleas to infest the cat.
Many, if not most, aquariums DO have parasites, and the sick or weak are the most likely to become infected. But, if there is no parasite to begin with, how to they catch it?
C. irritans should be completely eradicated when proper quarantine of new fishes is done.
The analogy I will give is fleas on a cat... The cat was given a thorough anti-flea dip/treatments, kept indoors, and no other dogs, cats, etc enter the home the cat will never get fleas. Yes, sickness or stress is a way for a cat to become infested, but if there are no fleas to infest, it does'nt matter about the cat's health- there are no fleas to infest the cat.
Many, if not most, aquariums DO have parasites, and the sick or weak are the most likely to become infected. But, if there is no parasite to begin with, how to they catch it?
guineawhop
Member
why does UV sterilizers do nothing to parasites? i have heard from almost everyone that they kill them. i'm not asking to critisize i'm just curious because if it doesn't i'm getting rid of mine.