Fighting False Percs.
- Thread starter brycelowe
- Start date
lmecher
Member
This should be helpful.
Forming pair bonds in clownfish
A how to guide
By: John Hardman
First you need to understand clownfish --- change and how that effects pairing and interaction. Please refer to Knol on sexing clownfish page for further information.
Briefly, clownfish are protandrous hermaphrodites. They are hatched as sexually immature fish. Based on signals from their environment and being physically mature (12-24 months) they will either remain sexually immature, change into a male or change into a male then female. This is a one way trip, sexless to male never to be sexless again and male to female never to be male again.
A clownfish kept by its self will become a female in a short period of time if it is physically mature, in as little as a month.
Second two female clowns will fight. The tell tale sign that you have two females is fighting ending in the two locking their mouths together.
Clownfish pairing techniques:
There are a couple of proven techniques to pair the same species of clownfish. Mixing species of clownfish should be avoided and has very limited long term (multi-year) success (only one case that I know of and could be considered unsuccessful as at least one clownfish was killed by another clownfish in the tank).
Grow out technique:
With this technique two small juvenile clownfish are purchased at the same time and introduced into the tank at the same time. The fish will establish a dominate submissive relationship as they mature and eventually form a pair bond. This technique works the vast majority of the time.
Notes: Since the fish are going to fight and/or chase each other to establish who is the dominate fish and who is the submissive fish, it will often speed the pairing process and reduce fighting and potential damage to the fish by getting one of the two juveniles larger than the other.
This technique should not be applied to Premnas species (maroon) clownfish.
Add a new clownfish to an existing clownfish technique:
With having an existing clownfish in your tank adding a new clownfish to form a pair can be a little harder or in other words more dangerous to the new fish. The technique is basically the same as the grow out technique. You will want to find a small juvenile clownfish and add it to the tank with the existing tank. By getting a small juvenile fish you are not risking possible --- compatibility problems, e.g. two females.
post too long: see next post for continuation
lmecher
Member
Example: Existing 3" A. Ocellaris clownfish that has been in the tank by it's self for over a year. We can assume this fish is a female based on size, age and environment. A ¾" to 1 ½: juvenile from a community tank is added to the tank. The vast majority of the time the new fish will submit to the existing fish with little or no fighting at all.
This technique should not be applied to Premnas species (maroon) clownfish.
Paring Premnas species clownfish (maroon clownfish):
Pairing maroon clowns is much more problematic than pairing Amphiprion species clownfish. Maroons are notorious for being very aggressive and very territorial towards other clownfish. They are pretty much fearless and will only back down from an all out fight when presented with the overwhelming threat of death.
Separation Technique:
The only technique I am aware of that works the vast majority of the time with the least amount of damage as possible to use a separation and slow acclimation process to introduce a poetical mate to a maroon clownfish.
First you need to have a large female already established in your tank before trying a pairing. The clownfish should be at least 3" from nose to start of the cardinal fin. Next you will need to do a little preparation before buying a potential mate for your maroon. You need something to securely separate the two fish in the same tank while still allowing the fish to see each other and the new fish to get water flow. You can use a clear plastic specimen container with holes drilled in it for example.
Now go to the LFS and find the smallest juvenile maroon from a community tank that you can find. It should be no larger than 1" nose to start of cardinal fin. Acclimate the new maroon just as you would any other fish. Once the new maroon is acclimated to your tanks water, place the new maroon in the specimen container. Let the two fish see each other, place the specimen container near the females territory. Carefully watch the female's behavior. If she is trying to attack the new fish through the container, it is not safe to release the new maroon. Give her time to cool off from the disruption to her tank and addition of a foreign clownfish in her tank.
Now that the female has cooled her temper it is time to try an introduction. Get your favorite fish net ready and release the new maroon to the tank. If the fighting gets too bad you will need to rescue the new maroon and place it back in the container and try the next day. If after three failed attempts you can write off the new maroon as incompatible and you will need a new juvenile to try with.
Submissive behavior in clownfish:
As a part of pairing you need to know what submissive behavior is. You will know that you are well on your way to a successful pairing when one fish submits to the other fish. This is especially important behavior to observe in maroon clownfish.
Amphiprion and Premnas species submissive behavior goes something like this.
First the dominate fish will rush or otherwise attack the submissive fish. The submissive fish will turn sideways to the dominate fish and tilt its belly towards the dominate fish and quiver like an epileptic seizure. The female should recognize this behavior and stop the attack short of actual damage. Sometimes in new pairings and old well established pair bonds the dominate fish will move to a parallel position to the submissive and quiver back to the submissive fish.
In Premnas species there is an additional submissive behavior that is unique to maroons. When the submissive fish is rushed or otherwise attacked it/he will duck the attack, slip to the side of the female and tenderly kiss her cheek spines and pectoral fins of his beloved female.
Signs that you have a pair bond in your clownfish:
There are a couple of signs that a pair bond has formed and is maturing in your clownfish in addition to submissive behavior. Typically mated pairs (pairs that have a pair bond) will sleep in the same area. They will also host in the same host or stay in the same territory if there is no natural host present. The two fish will stay close to each other the vast majority of the time.
The pair bond is a developing thing. It starts out as a general acceptance of each other. Then slowly develops into a closer relationship were both fish are together most of the time. There is a bickering phase too where the female will make sure the male knows who is the boss. During this time it is not uncommon to find the poor little dejected male cowering near their normal host/territory. But don't worry this is normal and the male will be accepted back sooner or later. The ultimate end of the pair bond is seen in a spawning event such as nest cleaning or laying of eggs.
This technique should not be applied to Premnas species (maroon) clownfish.
Paring Premnas species clownfish (maroon clownfish):
Pairing maroon clowns is much more problematic than pairing Amphiprion species clownfish. Maroons are notorious for being very aggressive and very territorial towards other clownfish. They are pretty much fearless and will only back down from an all out fight when presented with the overwhelming threat of death.
Separation Technique:
The only technique I am aware of that works the vast majority of the time with the least amount of damage as possible to use a separation and slow acclimation process to introduce a poetical mate to a maroon clownfish.
First you need to have a large female already established in your tank before trying a pairing. The clownfish should be at least 3" from nose to start of the cardinal fin. Next you will need to do a little preparation before buying a potential mate for your maroon. You need something to securely separate the two fish in the same tank while still allowing the fish to see each other and the new fish to get water flow. You can use a clear plastic specimen container with holes drilled in it for example.
Now go to the LFS and find the smallest juvenile maroon from a community tank that you can find. It should be no larger than 1" nose to start of cardinal fin. Acclimate the new maroon just as you would any other fish. Once the new maroon is acclimated to your tanks water, place the new maroon in the specimen container. Let the two fish see each other, place the specimen container near the females territory. Carefully watch the female's behavior. If she is trying to attack the new fish through the container, it is not safe to release the new maroon. Give her time to cool off from the disruption to her tank and addition of a foreign clownfish in her tank.
Now that the female has cooled her temper it is time to try an introduction. Get your favorite fish net ready and release the new maroon to the tank. If the fighting gets too bad you will need to rescue the new maroon and place it back in the container and try the next day. If after three failed attempts you can write off the new maroon as incompatible and you will need a new juvenile to try with.
Submissive behavior in clownfish:
As a part of pairing you need to know what submissive behavior is. You will know that you are well on your way to a successful pairing when one fish submits to the other fish. This is especially important behavior to observe in maroon clownfish.
Amphiprion and Premnas species submissive behavior goes something like this.
First the dominate fish will rush or otherwise attack the submissive fish. The submissive fish will turn sideways to the dominate fish and tilt its belly towards the dominate fish and quiver like an epileptic seizure. The female should recognize this behavior and stop the attack short of actual damage. Sometimes in new pairings and old well established pair bonds the dominate fish will move to a parallel position to the submissive and quiver back to the submissive fish.
In Premnas species there is an additional submissive behavior that is unique to maroons. When the submissive fish is rushed or otherwise attacked it/he will duck the attack, slip to the side of the female and tenderly kiss her cheek spines and pectoral fins of his beloved female.
Signs that you have a pair bond in your clownfish:
There are a couple of signs that a pair bond has formed and is maturing in your clownfish in addition to submissive behavior. Typically mated pairs (pairs that have a pair bond) will sleep in the same area. They will also host in the same host or stay in the same territory if there is no natural host present. The two fish will stay close to each other the vast majority of the time.
The pair bond is a developing thing. It starts out as a general acceptance of each other. Then slowly develops into a closer relationship were both fish are together most of the time. There is a bickering phase too where the female will make sure the male knows who is the boss. During this time it is not uncommon to find the poor little dejected male cowering near their normal host/territory. But don't worry this is normal and the male will be accepted back sooner or later. The ultimate end of the pair bond is seen in a spawning event such as nest cleaning or laying of eggs.
brycelowe
Member
thank you for the extremely valuable info. I just got home from work and they are still at it. mostley just the larger one (which I introduced saturday) is rushing the smaller one and the smaller one crouches down and does that shivering thing. would this be an indicator that I dont have a female-female problem? you think? if so all i have to worry about is how brutal it gets. I have a critter cage that is one of those that have a vented lid. one you might keep crickets in. does anyone think I should use the method of separation? it was desribed as a method for maroons but it shold work with the A. Ocellaris right? sorry if it said i was on all day I forgot to log out at work.
lmecher
Member
I have had a busy day. I picked up a mate for my onyx. From the moment I introduced them they got along like peas in a pod. I am not trying to make you feel bad remember the last pair I tried ended badly w/ one getting killed.
New skill I just learned, I am waiting to hear about yours.
New skill I just learned, I am waiting to hear about yours.
brycelowe
Member
Mine is a plastic one that isnt designed to go in the aquarium. but it fits... nice pair. I like the clowns with black. what is the difference between an onyx and a B/W Ocellaris? is onyx a type of perc.? I took all my livestock out and placed them in my QT for about 2 hours while I drained some water (into QT), cleaned the substrait, rearanged to look like a new tank. and did a water change. Ta Da! brand new tank. i introduced the clowns last and they seem to be better. they are both calm (calm for false percs.) the larger one rushed the small one one and then let loose. they arent exactly swimming together but they aren't fighting. there has been some damage to both. both have rough looking tail fins now. good luck with your new clown.
mboswell1982
Active Member
girl, ur clowns are awesome, i was gonna do a pair of black an white ocellaris clowns, but i might just do what u did, an onyx perc an a b&w ocellaris 
brycelowe
Member
this is the tank before. (even before the second clown but it look the same till tonight)
Attachment 214363
and this is just a minute ago
Attachment 214362
Attachment 214363
and this is just a minute ago
Attachment 214362
brycelowe
Member
the small one was the smallest at the store when I got him. I wish the tank was bigger. I am saving money to build a 40-75g with MH lights. that will be in the near future. I'm trying to find a good tank on craigslist. there are many to chose from but I'm picky. I bought the 10g because I wanted to see if i liked the hobby and now it's more of an obsession. you know.
lmecher
Member
Tell me about it. I started w/14 biocube, that was not suitable for an anemone so I got the 37 w/metal halide. Had to have 2 1/2 pico, perfect for next to my computer. Started w/mini carpet anemones, they were taking over my biocube so had to get a 15 for them. It really is an obsession.
brycelowe
Member
they havent been at it again. but they arent swimming together tho. they are completly separate. I did a time lapse of my tank yesterday and there was no interaction. so I can +1 on the rearange the tank method. they fought for 2 days and then i removed them and introduced them into the new design and no fighting since.
On another note... I have to admit, I've been naive as to the lighting for my nem. I took the advise of a guy who maintains sw tanks for a living. but I'm not sure I should have. I have 2 coralife 50/50 10 watt power compacts. that are 1-2 inches above the water in my 10 gallon (12 inch deep). Should I get a T5 HO (what total wattage) or do I need a MH if so what wattage?
my Sebae anemone still has its purple tips but it has been acting strangly the past few days. it hasnt opened up since I rearanged the tank. today I had to move it because it was close to my brittle star and the star was picking off of it. I watched it pull stuff off. I'm not sure what it was doing. can brittles eat ailing anemones? my false perc that had hosted it at one time will not approch it now.
I just did a water change and my trates jumped from 20 to 40 in 2 days. I'm doing a water change right now. my nen is looking really rough.like its tentcles are disolving.
On another note... I have to admit, I've been naive as to the lighting for my nem. I took the advise of a guy who maintains sw tanks for a living. but I'm not sure I should have. I have 2 coralife 50/50 10 watt power compacts. that are 1-2 inches above the water in my 10 gallon (12 inch deep). Should I get a T5 HO (what total wattage) or do I need a MH if so what wattage?
my Sebae anemone still has its purple tips but it has been acting strangly the past few days. it hasnt opened up since I rearanged the tank. today I had to move it because it was close to my brittle star and the star was picking off of it. I watched it pull stuff off. I'm not sure what it was doing. can brittles eat ailing anemones? my false perc that had hosted it at one time will not approch it now.
I just did a water change and my trates jumped from 20 to 40 in 2 days. I'm doing a water change right now. my nen is looking really rough.like its tentcles are disolving.
lmecher
Member
Glad to hear the fighting has stopped, at least for now. Your lighting is definately inadequate for a lta. I have never kept one but I do know they require very intense light. A MH is required to keep them.
I have btittle stars (several) in all my tanks, have never had them bother any of my nems.
I have btittle stars (several) in all my tanks, have never had them bother any of my nems.
mboswell1982
Active Member
on a 12 inch deep tank, he could prolly get away with T5HO lighting
