Film on Perc Clown

[bergshawn]

Recentlly bought a mated pair of percula clowns at a very reputable LFS. The first 24 hours in the tank was a little stressful for them as the yellow-tailed damsel was a little agressive with them. After the first 24 hour period everyone has been getting along fine. I put the percs in the tank this past Sunday. I have been watching them very close everyday and all seems well. Today, I notice a small patch of what looks like filmy residue on the bottom of the male (the smaller of the two). I have seen many pictures of ich and this does not look like it. This is not spotty, but like a clear film. Called my LFS that I purchased the fish from and as soon as I explained the problem the person I spoke with said he had delt with this prior with a few other clown fish. He called it "clown fish disease" and said described exactly what it looked like to me. He said to pick up some Formalin (which I cannot do tonight cause the store is now closed), and take the fish out of the tank and treat them with it. I have 95lbs of live rock, so getting these two clowns out will be no fun, I'm sure. He suggested treating both and stated that even though the female doesn't have it now, if not treated, she probably will within a few days. The fish is acting perfectly normal. It ate for the first time yesterday -- frozen brine.
Beth, what do you think? I know you might suggest hypo but I do not have a QT setup, nor do I have a refractometer, and the LFS doesn't sell them. By time I got the refractometer shipped and spent two days dropping salinity the fish would most likely be dead. The LFS said the fish will live for 3-4 days with this disease but thats about it.
Let me know your thoughts.
Thanks..

 

[beth]

Shawn, I know I recommend hypo a lot but hypo is an ich treatment. It is not a "cure all". Thus, hypo would not be recommended in this case. Does the film seem to "peal off" as if shedding? Is the fish breathing rapidly; are gills swollen?? What other fish do you have in your tank?
The LFS may be right. The disease is called brooklynella and it is also commonly known as clownfish disease. It is however, not a disease that is exclusive to clownfish. Any fish exposed to it will likely get it. It is highly contagious and deadly. If it is brook, you have little time to address the problem. You will need to begin the treatment asap as it is a fast killer. All fish should be treated.
To treat it, you will have to remove the fish not 1 but 3Xs from the tank. You will need to prepare a dedicated treatment container. A bucket will do. The water must be aerated during the treatment--use an airstone. Using water from your main tank, you will bathe the fish in the formalin bathe for 45 mins, every other day for 3 days. This would be easy if you had a QT, but you don't, thus you do have a task ahead of you.

 

[bergshawn]

Fish is not breathing rapidly, gillds are not swolen. Seems like it is in very early stages. It actually looks better now than it did originally when I noticed it 3 hours ago.
There are two damsels in the tank, a peppermint shrimp, and an anemone. Removing the damsels is next to impossible due to the amount of live rock I have. Removing the clowns will not be that bad cause they are not nearly as quick. I do have that 5 gal. eclipse tank I can use as a QT. I can take 5 gals of water from my main tank and throw it in there and get it up and running in no time. This would probably be ok for the 2 clowns for only 6 days. They were in a lot smaller container than this in the store for 2 weeks. I could use a 5 gal. bucket as the treatment quarters and put an airstone in it. This sound like the best plan to you?

 

[bergshawn]

What do ya think, Beth? Not trying to be a pest, but am really stressing over this as this is my first problem with my new tank. I'n sure you can relate when you had your first problem probably many years ago

 

[beth]

You're not being a pest. Lets see how it is tomorrow. It could be a bacterial infection or just stress from the resent ordeals of getting a new home.
Do you have the formalin? If you end up using it, don't overdose. This medication is a formaldehyde formulation and can be very toxic if not used correctly.
If the condition is worse tomorrow then proceed with the treatment. A bacterial infection, however, could have similar symptoms as it usually manifests as a grayish-white coating. Brook, however, takes a fish over very rapidly. It is a parasite, not a bacteria. The parasites infests the gills resulting in gill :swelling, redness and very rapid gilling. The whitish coat will peal off.
If the situation is worse tomorrow, then proceed with the formalin baths.

 

[beth]

Originally posted by bergshawn
I'n sure you can relate when you had your first problem probably many years ago
Believe me, you don't have to be new to the hobby to stress over sick fish. No matter how many yrs in the hobby, an animal in the tank in trouble is stressful and painful.

 

[bergshawn]

Well it seems the same if not better today. It's hardly noticeable, but wasn't very noticeable to begin with. Of course when I checked this morning the lights were out and he was just swimming in his corner where he always stays at night. He still seems fine. I am going to pick up the Formalin today at lunch and try and get out of work a little early to get home and check on him. If he is still acting normal this afternoon (about 5-6pm) that would be 24 hrs since I originally noticed it. Would this mean it is not brook? The only reason I thought it might be is because I saw a very fune stringy thing on his bottom, and couldn't tell if it was poop or stuff coming out of his gills. He's small and it's hard to tell with him moving so much, lol. It happened twice last night. Today there was nothing hanging from him.
And yes, after having this problem, I am definitely going to be setting up a QT . I had wanted to do this anyway, just hadn't gotten around to it yet. I'm sure you see it all the time. Nobody does it until they have a problem and realize how stressful it can be and how easily it could've been resolved. But if my wild percs can get Brook from stress, it would've still been possible for them to get it after being in QT for 3 weeks, right?

 

[beth]

Lets see how he's doing when you get home.

 

[bergshawn]

Sounds good. I just got back from the LFS where I purchased the percs. Picked up an air stone, cheap air pump, Formalin, and Kent's Extreme Garlic for future use
One thing I did not like is that when I was there I saw two sets of mated percs that had the same thing. I was quite disappointed as this store has been around for a very long time and is very well known and reputable in my area. The two sets that had it at the store looked 50x worse than mine do.
In any case, the guy there I spoke with last night I spoke with again today while I was there. He said that if I do the treatment to put 10 drops of Formalin for every gallon of treatment water I have (will probably use 1-2 gallons in a 5 gal. bucket). The box says 2 drops per gallon. Just wanted to make sure that 10 drops/gal. would be OK before I have to do it.
Also, I have read the FAQ in this board on QTs. Plan on setting up my 5 gal. tonight as a QT. The bio-wheel that is in the eclipse now is the same wheel I had used when I had it setup as freshwater. Can I use the same wheel, or should I buy another one?
Also, what kind of PVC do you usually put in the tank for the fish to hide in? Just a small straight piece and maybe an elbow piece?
I figured while my clowns are being treated in the Formalin (if I go this route after seeing them tonight) I will take 5 gals. of water out of my display tank and put it into my 5 gal. Eclipse (to be my QT) and get it up and running. I can then put the percs in there when they are done w/ treatment.
Thanks so much once again for your great help. Don't know what I would do without the support.

 

[beth]

You can use what ever shape pvc strikes your fancy. Myself, I am using fake corals, which are rather expensive.
The problem with the fish could be a bacterial issue. The guy at the LFS should be treating the fish before selling them if he acknowledges that its a problem.

 

[bergshawn]

We'll see tonight like you originally said.
You are right about the LFS. Like I said, I had never EVER seen any fish like this in that store before until today. Maybe they just got a bad batch that didn't ship well. Who knows.
Keep you updated.

 

[bergshawn]

Also picked up Kent's Extreme Garlic and some live brine. If I have to do the formalin treatment after putting in QT would it be a good idea to soak live brine in the garlic and try to feed them?

 

[beth]

Well, garlic never hurts anything, but can't say it will do much if it is brook.

 

[bergshawn]

Will the garlic kill the live brine though? I want to put them in the tank alive.

 

[bergshawn]

Well as of today the clown looks a lot better. It is barely noticeable. I'd say 100% better than it was yesterday. I am guessing if it was brooklynella it wouldv'e seriously progressed by now. I guess this means it was just some sort of bacteria infection. You will be happy to know I am now on my way out to get the last few things I need to setup my QT tonight. This little scare definitely made me realize I need one
Thanks again for your help Terry and Beth. Let me know what you think. Am I doing the right thing by not treating? I will be home for the next 3 days to observe the clown so if it does get worse and reak the signs of brook I will be able to treat as I already have everything neccessary.

 

[beth]

Yep, wait and see. It may be that good environment will take care of it.

 

[bergshawn]

The fish is definitely improving, I did a 5 gal. water change (10%) to get my QT started, which is now up and running . Just have to get some PVC still, but besides that it's all ready.
My ammonia level in the tank dropped back down to 0 finally. It had been at .25 for about 2 weeks. My skimmer also started foaming a LOT more than usual, filling up the collection cup within one day, but now it is filled with mostly clear water with a light yellowish tint to it. Before it would fill up about 1/4 of the way in 3 days, but with a very dark brown looking water. Kinda wierd that all this happened the same day the fish started looking better. Hmmmmm.
Shawn

 

[beth]

Why did you have ammonia?

 

[bergshawn]

Not exactly sure. I went up to .25 for about 10-12 days. Gone now though. Maybe from overfeeding? Not 100% sure. Did notice today though that since I added another powerhead a few days ago for more circulation that my tank has been running a bit hotter. I assume this is normal from the addition of the new powerhead generating more heat. Now without the lights on the tank is running at 82 degrees. My lighting really doesn't heat the tank much as it is only 1 48" Coralife 50/50 bulb, but it does heat the water about a degree or so. Am thinking I am going to need to put that extra powerhead on a timer and only run it when my lights aren't on to keep the water 82 or lower, unless there is some kind of cheap chiller I can put in the tank that will not cost a lot of $$$ and heat up my whole room
Shawn

 

[9fishers]

Thanks, Beth, for your informative advice on Clown Perc with slime. I tried the fresh water dip but didnt help for long. Soooo, I went to my lfs yesterday and showed the guy the sick Clowns in his tank.(He did reach in and get out the dead one). I diagnosed the fish as having Brook.(and he thought all blonds were dumb) He recommended a fresh water dip but I recommended Formalite. So I brought it home, put 4 gallons of tank water in a 5 gal. bucket, added med and airpump. Next I put in my little fishes....not stressed one bit. Left them there for an hour (no time mentioned on box so I did your 45 min. and a few more for good measure) When I put the fish back in the tank, they were just fine. Ate their dinner like good little fishes and slept very well last night. I'll do it again tomorrw and then again in 3 days. So, in my long winded experience, Nemo,Tiger and Spot would like to thankyou from the bottom of their fins!
Kindest Regards,
Nicole