Finally, Here It Is...

mboswell1982

Active Member
also, he will, once he's big enough, start eating any fish in the tank that he can fit in his mouth, he needs a large tank to be in, something large enough that any of the other fish can get away from him easily in, and bear in mind, he's basically like a large mouth bass, meaning he is gonna have a HUGE mouth
 
Originally Posted by mboswell1982
http:///forum/post/2833853
also, he will, once he's big enough, start eating any fish in the tank that he can fit in his mouth, he needs a large tank to be in, something large enough that any of the other fish can get away from him easily in, and bear in mind, he's basically like a large mouth bass, meaning he is gonna have a HUGE mouth
Yeah I knew that. He's pretty small right now and I know for sure I will have a 220-440 by next year so I'm really not concerned about it. However the store told me he would only get 10-12".
 

mboswell1982

Active Member
Originally Posted by LKGRenegade22
http:///forum/post/2833856
Yeah I knew that. He's pretty small right now and I know for sure I will have a 220-440 by next year so I'm really not concerned about it. However the store told me he would only get 10-12".

dude, u definitely need to find a new LFS, thats like the one LFS i went to up here in vancouver, wa that told me i could keep a shark in a 20 gallon long tank
 
Originally Posted by mboswell1982
http:///forum/post/2833880
dude, u definitely need to find a new LFS, thats like the one LFS i went to up here in vancouver, wa that told me i could keep a shark in a 20 gallon long tank
Well I knew that was bogus, but like I said I'm going to get a huge tank here soon so I wasn't worried about it. I visited all the LFS's around me and was told all different things from all of them.
 

mboswell1982

Active Member
within 6 months, roughly, he'll be eating his smaller tank mates, if not before then, i mean, just how big is he now? from what i have been able to read, concerning those fish, they get big, FAST, and they will start consuming tank mates by the time they are 6 months old
 
Originally Posted by mboswell1982
http:///forum/post/2833888
within 6 months, roughly, he'll be eating his smaller tank mates, if not before then, i mean, just how big is he now? from what i have been able to read, concerning those fish, they get big, FAST, and they will start consuming tank mates by the time they are 6 months old
I'm going to say he is around 3-4" now, probably closer to 3. His mouth is pretty small right this minute though. I've seen him stretch quite a few times and I was actually kinda surprised by how small it is. It's about the size of a dime at the most.
 

jtt

Member
dude, anemones need to be in a really well established tank. they cant survive in new tanks. i hope you didnt spend too much money on that anemone because $5 says it wont last much longer. by well established i mean the tank needs to be up and running for like a minimum of 6 months, if not much much longer. anemones are extremely sensitive to changes, in flow, light changes, water quality, temperature, any environmental changes. boy howdy I feel bad for the anemone in there.
 

spiderwoman

Active Member
Originally Posted by LKGRenegade22
http:///forum/post/2833842
Yeah I have read that...I just couldn't see adding 1 fish at a time when they are in tanks together at the LFS...I've been monitoring the water daily and everybody seems happy so far.
What does that have to do with anything??? All the fish in our tanks were together in the ocean one day. It doesn't mean that I should go and add them into my little tank at the same time. What research told you that???

Originally Posted by LKGRenegade22

http:///forum/post/2833884
Well I knew that was bogus, but like I said I'm going to get a huge tank here soon so I wasn't worried about it. I visited all the LFS's around me and was told all different things from all of them.
You do realize that the LFS makes money every time you follow their advice? Their No 1 goal is to sell you something and when they see that a total newbie comes and asks questions, they know they can get you to buy anything.
OK, I've given advice, it's totally been ignored. I won't spend any more of my time trying to make you see that you haven't done your research and are moving too fast with a tank that is not suited to house 20 fish.
It's your tank, good luck.
 
Originally Posted by mboswell1982
http:///forum/post/2833988
a mouth that size on a 3 inch fish is actually pretty big lol
I guess that is true, but it will still take him awhile to get some size to him so I think I will be ok for now.
Originally Posted by JTT
http:///forum/post/2833992
dude, anemones need to be in a really well established tank. they cant survive in new tanks. i hope you didnt spend too much money on that anemone because $5 says it wont last much longer. by well established i mean the tank needs to be up and running for like a minimum of 6 months, if not much much longer. anemones are extremely sensitive to changes, in flow, light changes, water quality, temperature, any environmental changes. boy howdy I feel bad for the anemone in there.

I actually only gave $5 for him, and how long do you think he will last then? He's been almost a week now and he is still alive.
Originally Posted by SpiderWoman

http:///forum/post/2834006
What does that have to do with anything??? All the fish in our tanks were together in the ocean one day. It doesn't mean that I should go and add them into my little tank at the same time. What research told you that???

It's a logical questionto me. If numerous fish can be in one tank in a LFS for weeks why would you not be able to add them to your tank at one time?
You do realize that the LFS makes money every time you follow their advice? Their No 1 goal is to sell you something and when they see that a total newbie comes and asks questions, they know they can get you to buy anything.
OK, I've given advice, it's totally been ignored. I won't spend any more of my time trying to make you see that you haven't done your research and are moving too fast with a tank that is not suited to house 20 fish.
It's your tank, good luck.
Ignored? I already have the fish, I don't think I can make them disappear or anything. If the LFS lie to you to get business how would they ever stay in business? I'm not saying that won't and that it doesn't happen but if that is common practice that is quite sad. If all my fish are in a state of impending doom what should I do to watch for this and prevent it if at all possible. I just got home this morning and all of them are still alive and well and readily accepting food right now.
 

stanlalee

Active Member
Originally Posted by LKGRenegade22
http:///forum/post/2833724
If you have something you would like to share by all means please do, I'm all ears.

okay a few things you should be aware of:
1. the bioload is too high for a 72g. you must have started with cured liverock and you have plenty or everything would be dead already. that puts you a little bit ahead of the game however you still can not exceed the bioload of what the bacteria present can process into nitrates or your water will be diluted with nitrites or ammonia that hasn't been broken down (toxic to the livestock). you put a high load on biological filtration and stuff is going to die before it catches up. your reading of 0-0-0 across the board is a clear sign that the storm just hasn't come yet. With functional biofiltration you should have nitrates thru the roof (the end result of biological processing). even with a functional biofilter you are going to have nitrate problems without gigantor and frequent water changes. its simply too many fish for the volume of water. this would be an appropriate FINAL (not all added at once) final stocking and I consider that a heavy load (maxed out):
1- Flame Angelfish
1- Coral Beauty Angelfish
1- Lawnmower Blenny
2- False Percula Clowns
1- Pink Spot Sifter Goby
1- Rusty Clown Goby
1- Sixline Wrasse
4- Turbo Snails (these arent the best choice either but with the grouper may be the only choice).
you shouldn't have bought the other fish to have "something in there until I got other fish". they could have taken them back to the pet store or sold them to somebody with the appropriate conditions to take them. you dont do saltwater tanks overnight. everybody starts out with an empty or almost empty tanks and builds it over time.
2. grouper doesn't belong. 3" is big enough to eat some of your fish stocking. you dont have anywhere near "by next year" as you put it. its going to take about that long before you have a full understanding and are ready for another bigger and better set up. even if you can buy it overnight you cant learn it over night.
3. cleaner wrasse doesn't belong. survival rate of cleaner wrasse in captivity is next to nothing. has nothing to do with eating either, they eat fine and still drop dead.
4.sebae anemone doesn't belong. even under the BEST conditions they usually dont make it a year in captivity. you have inadequate lighting, high bioload and lack of established filtration thats going to kill it sooner or later.
5. same for the starfish. chocolate chip stars are hardy but you dont have the conditions or establishment for any starfish yet.
6. coralife 65 is inadequate for a regular load in your size tank (the 65 is for up to 65g). you should have the best skimming has to offer attempting what you are attempting and you have an undersized entry level skimmer.
I wont even get into multiple sourced fish with lack of quarantining, the appropriateness of the tang, the copper band ect ect. I can actually understand somebody wanting a saltwater aquarium and ending up doing something like this but the fact you "read online for many months and purchased many books" I have to admitt is a bit disturbing.
 

robertmathern

Active Member
I think it is great you bought books. Did you actually read them and were they on saltwater tanks. If they are I think you need to read them again.
 

puffy_fish

Member
No reason to get preachy with the guy. He is trying to get some help. Use the search feature on here and search about each thing you have put in your tank. I love anemones, but sadly they need metal halide lights so he will probably not make it. If you have any questions, you can pm me. You have to watch what you put in these threads sometimes because people freak out when you are just learning. Best of luck.
 

greenreefer

Active Member
It seems like you might have read conflicting info and decided to throw it out and go with what you wanted or found someone saying what you wanted to hear. I don't think there is anyway you could come to that stocking list after reading even for a couple of hours.
Seriously you are way overstocked and will end up killing most of what you have. I know there are members on this site not too far from you. See if you can find someone within driving distance and get them to come help. I really think you need to go get some containers, take the rock out, catch the fish, and take the following out and either take it back for find someone to buy it from you
1- Blue Hippo Tang
1- Flame Angelfish
1- Copperband Butterfly
1- Panther Grouper
1- Cleaner Wrasse
8- Damsels
1- Sabae Anemone
1- Chocolate Chip Starfish
you can try to keep the following, but even these are probably too much for this stage of your tank, but I'm realistic and know you won't get rid of it all.
2- False Percula Clowns
1- Pink Spot Sifter Goby
1- Rusty Clown Goby
1- Sixline Wrasse
1- Coral Beauty Angelfish
1- Lawnmower Blenny
8- Turbo Snails
Don't rush into a second tank, especially a large one yet. Take your time and enjoy watching and figuring out this one. Do a lot more reading and figure the proper equipment for whatever you'd like to stock in the large tank and don't buy anything for it for at least 6 months. You will regret moving too fast later even if you don't think so now.
 

yearofthenick

Active Member
LKGRenegade... sounds like these guys left you with a sore bottom. I don't think they mean to be accusational against you personally... although I can understand you're probably taking it very personally
I mean, you have to give the guy some props... at least he has a skimmer on it... and he's thought through the flow needed.
i think we've all been guilty of making newbie mistakes. Don't throw LKG under the bus because he's falling into that category.
LKG, if you see your fish start to drop like flies, the best thing to do would be to take some of the fish back to the store and see if you can get your money back, or maybe partial credit. One of the local stores here give you a week to return fish for a full refund. My fish store will buy from me any fish I give them at wholesale price, which isn't much, but still something... and the fish lives a happier life as a result.
I would just be very careful... I would check the param's every day for the next month or two, and keep the nitrate levels low... one of the best ways to do that would be to do regular water changes. If the nitrates get above 80, I don't think your anemone will make it through.
The goal is to get a balance... get enough rock to handle the ammonia levels that your fish poop out. I would agree that the amount of fish in there is imbalanced, but it's not impossible to keep. I mean, you can keep pretty much anything, but it requires much more work. I change 10% of the water in my tank once a month, and it's because I don't have very many fish in mine. I know of one guy who has a 600g tank and does 100g water changes every week! But that's the price you pay when you want to overstock your tanks.
Hope this helps you out man, and good luck.
 
Well I did read a few saltwater books and I knew adding alot of fish quickly was not the ideal thing to do. I also did not know the cleaner wrasse would no do well in captivity. Should I trade him for some neon gobys or what? I think I am just going to take the panther grouper back. I know another guy that wants him anyways, even though I'm not sure if his tank is suited for him either though. I did spend the extra money for the 100+ lbs of fully cured rock, I was pretty sure that would help me out. I also thought between water changes, the canister filter, the rock and the skimmer I would be able to get by with a higher bioload for right now. I guess right now I will just stick to more volume and more frequent water changes. I think I am going to purchase a new skimmer though, so anyone who can point me in the best direction for a hang on type skimmer I would greatly appreciate that.
However I must say my welcome here hasn't been the best. I'm sure I've made mistakes but I'm attempting to listen to you guys who have tons more experience and try to fix what I can. Basically telling me I'm an idiot isn't getting very far and surely isn't helpful. As far as the anemone a guy at ***** sold him to me for $5...I figured I could attempt to accomodate him better than they were there.
 
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