Fish dying and I don't know why...help!

[RobertN]

There was an old thread I was reading about dying fish and saw this response:

"Do you have any algae problems?
.. The swimming around like crazy part makes me think nitrites are high or oxygen deficient.. Were you ever able to notice a change in breathing patterns?"


So I have a question that was motivated from reading the above response about fish swimming like crazy and a change in breathing patterns.
I have been cycling my first saltwater tank ever for the past 6 weeks. I bought a 28-gallon nano-cube tank. I started out by mixing my own salt water, adding dechlorinating drops, and adding bacteria once a day. After I got the salt water to 1.021, the store where I bought the tank gave me two damsel fish, 5 snails, and 6 hermit crabs. The two fish died right away and so did 4 of the snails. Since then, I was adding bacteria each day and feeding the crabs with pinch of flake food I was sold from the store. The temperature has been 80. I have done 3 water changes of 25% each in the past 6 weeks and each week I have taken a sample of water to the store for testing. I have always kept the filter running continuously rather than on some off and on sequence, per the store's recommendation.
About 2-3 weeks ago, I was told at the store that my ammonium was good, but the nitrites were still an issue. After the third water change recently, I took another sample to the store today and they said the nitrites were now good.
Since the water was good, the store salesperson said I could put in some fish now. I got 4 more snails for free as a replacement for the previous ones I lost so quickly. I also bought a small blue tang and a small clown fish. I left the bags sitting in the tank for about 30 minutes and then poured the fish and snails into the tank.
Here's where I wonder about oxygen and the breathing symptom. The clown fish seems ok, but 2-3 hours after they were all put in the tank, the blue tang started swimming straight up and constantly sucking at the top of the water, as if it was trying to get enough oxygen, but couldn't. I looked at it a little while later and it was dead......AGGGHHH!
Can anyone tell me if this sounds like a symptom they recognize and how I can change the conditions to stop this from happening again?
(by the way, I typed the above question last night; it's now morning and the clown fish doesn't look like it's doing too good, though it isn't desperately sucking at the top of the tank)
Thanks much!

 

[bang guy]

My initial guess would be osmotic shock and/or PH shock. What was the difference in salinity and PH between the bagged water and your tank water?

It is very rare for oxygen to be depleted. It usually can only occur with a bacteria bloom or an added chemical (chlorine removal drops for example).



I'll list some of my opinions. Take the ones that makes sense to you:

Stop buying fish until you have read a good hobby book. The store you are going to may have some good knowledge but they are geared toward selling you fish, not long term success.

Buy you own test kits. Ammonia, Nitrate, Alkalinity, Calcium, PH, and salinity (I recommend a refractometer) are must haves.

Don't ever add store water to your tank. There is an unending stream of fish diseases that flow through fish stores, it goes with the territory. Most advanced hobbyists would never even add a new fish directly to their tank until after it has been quarantined just for this reason.

Blue Tangs rarely have long term success in tanks shorter than 6 feet.

Clownfish are an excellent choice.

Never add more than one fish at a time. It takes weeks for the system to adjust to a new fish. The only exception should be when adding a bonded pair.

 

[RobertN]

Wow! Thanks for that primer. A lot of things I just learned. Yeah, I know that stores have their agenda, but it seemed these guys were sincerely interested in helping someone do this right. Oh well.
I think the salinity was pretty similar, but I didn't check. Don't know about pH. I hadn't put in any chlorine-removal drops for about a week. The idea of shock seems logical considering how fast the deaths occurred.
Could you recommend a good hobby book that won't be so voluminous that it will take me months to go through it (I have two young kids, a full-time job, and a lot of work regularly around my house that leaves little time for much else)?
Could you recommend where I could get my own test kits/equipment online for a decent price?
As for quarantining, does one have to set up an entire 2nd tank with filters/heater/etc. in order to have a place for quarantining? How long do you typically quarantine a new fish for?
So one fish at a time, no blue tangs (as you might have guessed, my kids' love for Finding Nemo prompted this whole endeavor, along with--much to my surprise--my wife's suggestion, even after my warnings.....I know she had no idea how involved and difficult it would be to get a saltwater tank system successfully happening).
Thanks again!!!
Robert

My initial guess would be osmotic shock and/or PH shock. What was the difference in salinity and PH between the bagged water and your tank water?

It is very rare for oxygen to be depleted. It usually can only occur with a bacteria bloom or an added chemical (chlorine removal drops for example).

I'll list some of my opinions. Take the ones that makes sense to you:

Stop buying fish until you have read a good hobby book. The store you are going to may have some good knowledge but they are geared toward selling you fish, not long term success.

Buy you own test kits. Ammonia, Nitrate, Alkalinity, Calcium, PH, and salinity (I recommend a refractometer) are must haves.

Don't ever add store water to your tank. There is an unending stream of fish diseases that flow through fish stores, it goes with the territory. Most advanced hobbyists would never even add a new fish directly to their tank until after it has been quarantined just for this reason.

Blue Tangs rarely have long term success in tanks shorter than 6 feet.

Clownfish are an excellent choice.

Never add more than one fish at a time. It takes weeks for the system to adjust to a new fish. The only exception should be when adding a bonded pair.

 

[beth]

Could you recommend a good hobby book that won't be so voluminous that it will take me months to go through it (I have two young kids, a full-time job, and a lot of work regularly around my house that leaves little time for much else)?

The Conscientious Marine Aquarist is an excellent beginner book. It is not boring, and you won't feel like you have to plow through a chore read. It is well written with step by step sound direction, well laid out/organized, with a multitude of nice pics and diagrams that aid in explaining the essentials of the hobby. Level is beginner to moderate hobbyist.

Could you recommend where I could get my own test kits/equipment online for a decent price?

We can't recommend other retailers here, because SWF is also a retailer. Personally, I like Salifert, but there are many good kits. Do some google research to compare or do a search on test kits here on the forum to see hobbyists' opinions.

As for quarantining, does one have to set up an entire 2nd tank with filters/heater/etc. in order to have a place for quarantining? How long do you typically quarantine a new fish for?

Setting up a permanent quarantine is your best bet, and it does not need to be fancy. Consider the size fish you are going to quarantine. Generally a 20 gal is good. I like the 20 gal long. If you are going to get larger fish, then you may want a 30 gal. Basic lighting is all you need, with modest filtration, header some fake décor for the fish.

You will be a lot happier if you take your time before jumping in to any type of purchases. Research is your best bet, books, internet, forums such as this one. etc. Feel confident that you know what you are doing and don't make impulse decisions. Advise from anyone is just that--advise. You have to decide based on the knowledge you acquire from the hobby. Look for folks who obviously have exp in the hobby to give you advise.