Fish needing certain size tanks? My story...

[sladem]

Since the day I was born, I have been around saltwater fish. Im 21 now, and I have a 70g tank of my own in my apartment that I absolutely love. But when I was about 5, my dad set up a 65g show tank in my room for me. He told me I could have whatever fish I wanted, and we would take care of them together. I loved it. But here is where i get a little erked and what people say about fish sizes in comparison to tank sizes. Every time I see someone post and say something along the lines of 'I have a 90g aquarium, and I have a Purple Tang, or Emporer Angel' people get on there and hound them saying 'OH NO, you need 100g for that fish!' or 'the tang needs a 6 foot tank!'
Here's my problem: Over the course of the 10+ years I had the tank, I had every kind of fish possible including:
Purple Tang (got at a baby, lived through huge ich scare, and died 6 year later)
Emporer Angel (got as a juvi, matured into full adult stage, then traded him)
Lion Fish (got as a baby, was eating 1 goldfish every 3 days, grew to eating 12+a day, and we traded him)
Lemon Peel
Multiple starfish
Snowflake Eel
Multiple Gobys
Flame Angel
A couple clownfish with anenomes
Panther Grouper (kept until he was too big, traded him off)
Dogface puffer
cowfish
lunare wrasse
Even a VERY small stingray I had for about a year before it got too big to be comfortable.
and many others.
I know I will probably get flamed for this, but my question is: Why do people make such a huge deal out of the tank size in accordance to the fish? I had so many fish that didnt meet the 'requirements' and they all lived perfectly fine. Maybe I am just a rare case, but I am thinking of adding a Huma to my 70g now, and people at my local fish stores, and on the local reef forum are freaking out because my tank is 'too small'
Im sorry this was so long and kind of a rant, I just dont believe all fish need these huge tanks, and every fish needs this crazy amount of room to swim around.
Im definitely open to criticism and the flaming, and if anyone has any advice or a reason to disprove a fish cant live in a tank that is 'too small', Im all ears

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by sLadeM
http:///forum/post/3280850
Since the day I was born, I have been around saltwater fish. Im 21 now, and I have a 70g tank of my own in my apartment that I absolutely love. But when I was about 5, my dad set up a 65g show tank in my room for me. He told me I could have whatever fish I wanted, and we would take care of them together. I loved it. But here is where i get a little erked and what people say about fish sizes in comparison to tank sizes. Every time I see someone post and say something along the lines of 'I have a 90g aquarium, and I have a Purple Tang, or Emporer Angel' people get on there and hound them saying 'OH NO, you need 100g for that fish!' or 'the tang needs a 6 foot tank!'
Here's my problem: Over the course of the 10+ years I had the tank, I had every kind of fish possible including:
Purple Tang (got at a baby, lived through huge ich scare, and died 6 year later)
Emporer Angel (got as a juvi, matured into full adult stage, then traded him)
Lion Fish (got as a baby, was eating 1 goldfish every 3 days, grew to eating 12+a day, and we traded him)
Lemon Peel
Multiple starfish
Snowflake Eel
Multiple Gobys
Flame Angel
A couple clownfish with anenomes
Panther Grouper (kept until he was too big, traded him off)
Dogface puffer
cowfish
lunare wrasse
Even a VERY small stingray I had for about a year before it got too big to be comfortable.
and many others.
I know I will probably get flamed for this, but my question is: Why do people make such a huge deal out of the tank size in accordance to the fish? I had so many fish that didnt meet the 'requirements' and they all lived perfectly fine. Maybe I am just a rare case, but I am thinking of adding a Huma to my 70g now, and people at my local fish stores, and on the local reef forum are freaking out because my tank is 'too small'
Im sorry this was so long and kind of a rant, I just dont believe all fish need these huge tanks, and every fish needs this crazy amount of room to swim around.
Im definitely open to criticism and the flaming, and if anyone has any advice or a reason to disprove a fish cant live in a tank that is 'too small', Im all ears

WELCOME to the site...no flaming here from me..
A pony can be kept in a small stall with food and water and a 20 foot paddock and go riding once a month or week depending on the owner, and it would live out its full life, but it sure would be happier in an open field of at last an acre during those down times. He wouldn't live any longer nor be any different size..Just happier..

 

[noah's nemo]

I'm on neither side,but IMO, i think our fish would be happiest in the ocean,and its not like we are out taking our fish for a swim in the ocean once a week...bottom line,they are fish,not ponies ,dogs ,or cats

 

[srfisher17]

There are many countries in the world that have shown that you can keep a dozen prisoners alive in a 6X10 cell. There may not be a lot of studies on the effects of cramping fish; because so much of the results are subjective.I have seen adult purple tangs in a tank that size and they don't even resemble tangs kept with enough swimming room. Check out some of the Asian tanks; they cram as many fish as possible into a bare tank. The fish live; but everything looks so phony, the fish seem to lose their beauty. Common sense plays a big part in this area too. Also, the deadly long-term effects of feeding goldfish to SW fish are well documented. Almost all of the fish on your list are easy to keep alive, but keeping them thriving long-term is my goal in this hobby. If this is the way you want to keep your fish, go ahead; but please don't advise others to do the same. BTW, it may seem like a contradiction to my post; but I'm not sure a fish is even capable of being "happy"; but I am. When my fish are thriving, I feel great. I'll never experience that feeling looking at cramped fish.

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by Noah's Nemo
http:///forum/post/3280884
I'm on neither side,but IMO, i think our fish would be happiest in the ocean,and its not like we are out taking our fish for a swim in the ocean once a week...bottom line,they are fish,not ponies ,dogs ,or cats

What, you don’t like my metaphor?

To be honest I view my fish tank as a work of living art and a bunch of fish milling around like worms in a can looks like crap to me. I would rather watch one happy fish picking at the rocks calmly swimming through the tank, than ten crammed into a tight space working like maggots for a spot to swim in. It’s just an opinion, I don’t eat sea food either, I personally keep those critters for pets.
I won’t bust some ones chops for wanting to cram a bunch of fish in one tank…but I won’t recommend it either.
sLadeM,
When we were small children my grandfather used to take lightning bugs, wait for them to glow and pull the critter apart and smear the guts on our fingers and call it making a glow a ring. He also put fish on a rope through the gills when he went fishing. Both acts I personally consider cruel. He thought nothing of it.
As I’m sure your Dad thought nothing of tank size or fishy happiness..Besides, do fish even feel happy? They just swim in the ocean looking for food , or being eaten by something themselves. I’m sure he thought nothing of keeping one for his kid to look at in a little tank in his room, like butterflies in a jar.
Some of us think the fish feel and think, just like some folks treat dogs like they have people thoughts. Others not so much.

 

[gilbert]

I agree. The point isn't whether you can keep a fish alive, it's whether or not the fish has room to live. Would you rather live in a one bedroom, 200 square foot apartment, or a 3 bedroom, 2000 square foot house?

 

[gilbert]

Also, some fish DO need more space. Parrotfish, for example, waste away if not kept in a tank at least a couple hundred gallons (so I've read).

 

[ophiura]

You fail to make one key distinction.
You were willing to trade the fish in.
Many people often don't recognize this as a necessity, or grow to attached to do it. Most, though they may have the best intentions, also do not upgrade tank size as expected. Therefore the best plan is to keep the sort of fish you can actually keep long term.
I personally would not really enjoy a tank where I had to keep trading fish out. And if it is a reef tank, this is no small effort to remove fish to trade.
I am not sure how you kept a panther grouper with clownfish or puffers/lunare wrasse with seastars (all natural predators). Did you mix things up from aggressive to community or were they kept simultaneously?
A lot has changed over the years. Feeding goldfish to lionfish is not considered optimal any longer, but it was common practice in the day. On some level we have changed perspective as the hobby has matured and we've shared long term experience about fish keeping. And for any given person that said "I did it fine" many others fail spectacularly. We do not know anything about the conditions in that tank versus another similar size tank, so we can't generalize on the success.
So in the interest of promoting the best odds of long term success, with people we do not know and who are often inexperienced, we stick to a few key concepts - dilution is the solution (bigger tank is better) and keep larger species in larger tanks. This is a way to have the best odds of ensuring long term success for most hobbyists. Stay within your limits, and odds of success improve.

 

[aussie260]

based on my experience with FW fish .If you keep a fish in a tank too small 2 things will happen.
1.the fish will just sulk and not be happy at all
2.you increase the chances of that fish getting sick or simply ending up dead prematurly.
when i first started out in FW i made lots of mistakes , i tried to keep large south american cichlids including oscars in a 40 G tank.None lived very long

 

[acrylic51]

I'm not bashing, but it's just wrong !!!! Regardless if your willing to trade it in or not....You still willingly bought something you knew you wouldn't be able to house or take care of for the duration.....

. Kinda like the housing market...Man I know I can really afford the payment, but before the payments balloon, I'll sell it an make tons of money.....Pure speculation......

 

[sladem]

We did trade out fish, and although some of you dont like the trading of the fish, it was in the best interest of the fish.
@srfisher17: I would be willing to bet you money that because this tank was small, you wouldnt have liked seeing the purple tang in there, BUT he was the healthiest and most colorful purple tang I have ever seen to this day, and if you saw the fish, you wouldnt believe it.
@ophiura: We kept them seperate. The only fish that was in there and saw every other fish was the purple tang and emp angel.
and @acrylic51: You can, in no way, compare a fish to a house. You've never purchased a car but sold it before your payments were up? I know a lot of people do that, is that wrong also? I purchase a fish, raise it, and trade it for the same value or maybe a little less after its grown. You act like Im running a scam business of buying and reselling for double....

 

[ryancw01]

The bottom line is that certain fish do have certain size requirements to live out their adult life. 65 gallon and 70 gallon tanks at least are big enough to raise these fish while they are younger and if you are willing to trade them in then fine. What bothers me is when people put a tang in a 30 or 40gallon and have no idea that eventually it will out grow the tank. When I switched over to saltwater from fresh I did a lot of research first because there is nothing more annoying to me then a fish like a humu trigger or a puffer just pacing up and down the side of the glass because the tank is too small or they cannot get adjusted from being in the ocean. Saltwater tanks are supposed to be relaxing and not look like you have a couple prisoners in a box of water.

 

[gilbert]

This thread is going nowhere fast...

 

[scottnlisa]

I learned from error and asking questions on here. I bought a 30 gallon tank and had 1 clown, coral beauty, sunrise dottyback, 4 blue-green chromis's and a LT anenome. No special lighting and just 2 HOB filters. LFS told me the LT anenome would do just fine. Nope, died 1 month later. I felt bad and betrayed. Now I research, research, and more research and ask questions to ya'll before adding anything to my tank. People error but people need to learn from there errors.

 

[sladem]

I am gonna clarify that if a fish was clearly too big for my tank, i would never cramp it, but if i get a baby fish and raise it until its at the max size and trade it, i dont see a problem. I was just asking why people freak out so

[hr]
about a fishs size, when i actually take care of the fish until its too big, then i let someone else enjoy it...

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by sLadeM
http:///forum/post/3281220
I am gonna clarify that if a fish was clearly too big for my tank, i would never cramp it, but if i get a baby fish and raise it until its at the max size and trade it, i dont see a problem. I was just asking why people freak out so

[hr]
about a fishs size, when i actually take care of the fish until its too big, then i let someone else enjoy it...
This quote from your original post seems to give an opposite impression than the point made above. I doubt that I'm the only one who assumed your 1st post was talking about the lifetime needs of fish, not just keeping them short-term.
From 1st post; "I know I will probably get flamed for this, but my question is: Why do people make such a huge deal out of the tank size in accordance to the fish? I had so many fish that didnt meet the 'requirements' and they all lived perfectly fine. Maybe I am just a rare case, but I am thinking of adding a Huma to my 70g now, and people at my local fish stores, and on the local reef forum are freaking out because my tank is 'too small'
Im sorry this was so long and kind of a rant, I just dont believe all fish need these huge tanks, and every fish needs this crazy amount of room to swim around."

 

[sladem]

Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/3281225
This quote from your original post seems to give an opposite impression than the point made above. I doubt that I'm the only one who assumed your 1st post was talking about the lifetime needs of fish, not just keeping them short-term.
From 1st post; "I know I will probably get flamed for this, but my question is: Why do people make such a huge deal out of the tank size in accordance to the fish? I had so many fish that didnt meet the 'requirements' and they all lived perfectly fine. Maybe I am just a rare case, but I am thinking of adding a Huma to my 70g now, and people at my local fish stores, and on the local reef forum are freaking out because my tank is 'too small'
Im sorry this was so long and kind of a rant, I just dont believe all fish need these huge tanks, and every fish needs this crazy amount of room to swim around."
I just feel like anywhere I go, i get a fish, that will eventually outgrow my tank, but i have no intentions of keeping it stuck in a tank like that forever, and i get shunned and looked down upon for it.

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by sLadeM
http:///forum/post/3281528
I just feel like anywhere I go, i get a fish, that will eventually outgrow my tank, but i have no intentions of keeping it stuck in a tank like that forever, and i get shunned and looked down upon for it.

It's the type of fish you like is all....with the kind of taste you have for critters..why not invest in a tank to keep what you want? I am not flaming you, It's just so hard to catch a fish in the tank without tearing it all apart. I have a Hippo tang that I was planning on doing the same and I gotta tell you, it won't be easy.
Keeping a saltwater tank from such a young age, I bet you have some fantastic info to share. So why do you bother concerning yourself with others opinions on your tank size and the critters you keep?

 

[sladem]

Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3281531

It's the type of fish you like is all....with the kind of taste you have for critters..why not invest in a tank to keep what you want? I am not flaming you, It's just so hard to catch a fish in the tank without tearing it all apart. I have a Hippo tang that I was planning on doing the same and I gotta tell you, it won't be easy.
Keeping a saltwater tank from such a young age, I bet you have some fantastic info to share. So why do you bother concerning yourself with others opinions on your tank size and the critters you keep?
I do know a lot about the tanks, i just dont agree with a lot of size regulations that people live and die by.
and i cant get a bigger tank because i live in a 2nd story apt, and the weight limit for a tank is 750lbs, and with my sump and everything Im already WAY over that, and they have asked me about it a bunch of times, and told me not to get a bigger one because it would be too obvious its over the weight limit and they would have to warn me or ask me to leave

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by sLadeM
http:///forum/post/3281589
I do know a lot about the tanks, i just dont agree with a lot of size regulations that people live and die by.
and i cant get a bigger tank because i live in a 2nd story apt, and the weight limit for a tank is 750lbs, and with my sump and everything Im already WAY over that, and they have asked me about it a bunch of times, and told me not to get a bigger one because it would be too obvious its over the weight limit and they would have to warn me or ask me to leave

An easy answer: don't tell anyone what you keep and where you keep it. Nobody will bother you. But, if you post that info on a site that strives to improve the hobby---expect some reaction and grow a thicker skin.