Fish Only or FOWLR? Filtratation?

phxjosh

phxjosh

Member
I have been doing a lot of reading online, but I am still a little confused on the filtration aspect of a SW tank using LR.
If I go with a FO setup, what do I do for filtration exactly? I am going to be using the Octopus BH-100 protein skimmer, just not sure what else I need to buy?
If I decide to use LR, I would only be able to buy around 25-30lbs to start with, would that be enough for a 55g tank, or should I do a combo of LR and base rock?
If I do not use LR, what can I use to aquascape the tank? I would like some decent coloring.
THANKS!
 
phxjosh

phxjosh

Member
Originally Posted by Don Trinko
http:///forum/post/2888434
I bought 50 lbs of base rock and added some live rock. My main filter is a canister. Tank is 75g. Don T.
Cannister filter? What is that?
What type of lighting do you have? My local LFS said I need VHO at least to use LR? From what I read online, you just need the 10,000k bulbs, and a 50/50 bulb?
 
J

johnd185

Guest
a canister filter is an external filter with tubing connecting to the tank
i havent heard anything on light for live rock and i just use t5 ho
looks fine to me
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Ugh, if you truely don't know an answer to something, don't answer it!
Live rock is the principle means of biological filtration of a saltwater tank. It has bacteria - anaerobic and aerobic - that break down waste produced by fish, inverts and excess food. Not only does live rock have bacteria, but also beneficial algaes, such as coralline, sponges, turnicates, copepods, amphipods, ciliates, diatoms, limpets, protozoans, micro stars, astrina stars, brittle stars, worms and sometimes even corals, shrimp and fish!
Do yourself a favor and buy live rock for your system. You will have much less trouble with hair algae and cyanobacteria. Buy all that you can afford right now, and then buy some more fully cured live rock once you can afford it. Don't do too much base rock because it will take a long time for it to colonize with enough bacteria and sponges and life to be worth anything.
Do NOT use a canister filter. Without proper weekly cleanings and maintenance - it will become nitrate and phosphate factory, making a breeding ground in your tank for hair algae and cyanobacteria.
You don't necessarily have to have a great light for live rock in a fowlr. If you aren't going to have a reef tank, then your only looking for biological filtration capabilities of the live rock.
Just my $0.02
 
small triggers

small triggers

Active Member
I have a 150g w/ 130ish lbs of LR and a compact flourescent light, with a 40g rubbermaid sump and a protein skimmer in it. Believe me if you are doing a FOWLR you need the LR, especially if you are hanging on to that canister filter for a little until you can do a sump with a skimmer. Granted, if you are only going to do a few small fish (the kind that don't turn into large fish) you could be okay, but your just going to keep having problems with the canister, and have to do excessive amounts of water changes to keep your water quality up. Good luck....
 
gharner

gharner

Member
live rock and good flow are important. try to buy as much live rock as possible, but dont hesitate to put base rock in there too....it will eventually become live as well. imo the more flow the better. ive heard nothing but good things about the skimmer your buying. if it were my tank i would also get a nice hob filter, and a power head or two
 
don trinko

don trinko

Member
I know I'm in the minority and I know that WC are neccisary. I have Discus; I do 50% wc twice a week. I know everyone thinks you need a lot of live rock and I'm not saying it is the wrong way to go but I am saying that it is not the only way. Don T.
 
small triggers

small triggers

Active Member
a 50% wc twice a week for salt water could easily shock the fish and kill them, though. For freshwater I wouldnt see a problem as they are not as tempermental about salt and parameters in their water. Personally, ALOT of lr would be 3-5lbs per gallon, if you ready ANY saltwater book on setting up a tank they say the minimum is 1-1.5lbs per gallon for good reason, it helps with aerobic and anaerobic filtration, especially if you are unable to have the best of the best set up.
 
don trinko

don trinko

Member
I don't question the use of live rock but one of the questions that was asked was: "If I go with a FO setup, what do I do for filtration exactly?"
"FO" stands for "fish only", FOWLR is "Fish only with live rock" thus if someone askes abought "FO" I presume they are talking abought not using live rock.
This is what prompted my answer.
Don T.
 
lkgrenegade22

lkgrenegade22

Member
There is nothing wrong with canister filters as long as you clean them like you're suppose too. Mine traps all the bigger particles that are stirred up while adding to the flow of the tank.
Anything left alone long enough is going to cause problems.
 
phxjosh

phxjosh

Member
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33
http:///forum/post/2888527
Ugh, if you truely don't know an answer to something, don't answer it!
Live rock is the principle means of biological filtration of a saltwater tank. It has bacteria - anaerobic and aerobic - that break down waste produced by fish, inverts and excess food. Not only does live rock have bacteria, but also beneficial algaes, such as coralline, sponges, turnicates, copepods, amphipods, ciliates, diatoms, limpets, protozoans, micro stars, astrina stars, brittle stars, worms and sometimes even corals, shrimp and fish!
Do yourself a favor and buy live rock for your system. You will have much less trouble with hair algae and cyanobacteria. Buy all that you can afford right now, and then buy some more fully cured live rock once you can afford it. Don't do too much base rock because it will take a long time for it to colonize with enough bacteria and sponges and life to be worth anything.
Do NOT use a canister filter. Without proper weekly cleanings and maintenance - it will become nitrate and phosphate factory, making a breeding ground in your tank for hair algae and cyanobacteria.
You don't necessarily have to have a great light for live rock in a fowlr. If you aren't going to have a reef tank, then your only looking for biological filtration capabilities of the live rock.
Just my $0.02
So do I need the protein skimmer or no? I heard it was one of the best ones, so I ordered it last night, it was about $100.
I am going to try and go 50/50 LR and base rock, would that be enough?
I plan on using 1-2 powerheards, I am still researching that. For now I just want to get it set up and start a cycle, and over the next 4-6 weeks I will finish the rest of the equipment.
For the background of the tank, I was thinking of doing blue or black?
Also, with LR, are there any type of low-light corals or mushrooms I could use later on? I would like to give sort of a reef look to a FOWLR tank if possible?'
And for sand, I plan on getting some aragonite or similar, will this help with filtration too?
 
small triggers

small triggers

Active Member
I would just buy live sand, especially if you are thinking of getting any kind of goby or blenny, they like the smaller sand to bury in and to sift. I think 50/50 is fine. I started out with uncured live rock, that had setout for a few months,, it looks great now after a year and a half. and as far as any low light corals or mushrooms, you could easily do some ricordeas, zoa's, mushrooms as long as you put them up a little bit higher than your sand bed, even with cheap flourescents, though t-5's or better are usually better if you have the money.
 
ca161406

ca161406

Member
Originally Posted by PhxJosh
http:///forum/post/2889724
So do I need the protein skimmer or no? I heard it was one of the best ones, so I ordered it last night, it was about $100.
I am going to try and go 50/50 LR and base rock, would that be enough?
I plan on using 1-2 powerheards, I am still researching that. For now I just want to get it set up and start a cycle, and over the next 4-6 weeks I will finish the rest of the equipment.
For the background of the tank, I was thinking of doing blue or black?
Also, with LR, are there any type of low-light corals or mushrooms I could use later on? I would like to give sort of a reef look to a FOWLR tank if possible?'
And for sand, I plan on getting some aragonite or similar, will this help with filtration too?
what skimmer did you get? $100 for a skimmer sounds like you may of got ripped off, unless it was used
 
dustyboy316

dustyboy316

Member
I personally would just add a power filter to filter out the bigger debris. Other than that the LR and protein skimmer should take care of everything.
Like the above poster said cannister filters are a lot of work and if you don't keep up ou can get pretty screwed over from it. Power filters don't even always need to be running either...
 
ophiura

ophiura

Active Member
FO tanks, for example those you see in restaurants with artificial backgrounds, tend to be filtered by wet/dry filters for biological filtration (the conversion of ammonia ultimately to nitrate). Mechanical filtration is through various sponges or filter floss within the wet/dry. Canisters, IMO, are not ideal for larger FO systems, especially with predators.
Even larger FO systems, such as those in public aquaria, typically do have the equivalent of huge wet dry towers on them, along with pool sediment filters.
 
don trinko

don trinko

Member
There are a lot of ways to have a sw tank. The cheapest way is to just use all your Fresh water stuff. As pointed out by many it does have disadvantages. (more work for one)
The other extreeme is a tank full of Live rock, a sump, a refugum, a skimmer, etc. The live rock (and the refugum , skimmer, and sump) are expensive. It's pretty easy to get $1000 or more into a tank( not counting the price of the tank and stand) before you buy your 1st fish.
It is an excelent way to go if money is no problem but for most you start with a compromize and gradualy add things as you can afford them.
Example for 75g tank: 100 lbs of live rock at local LFS $600, Decent skimmer $170, That is $770 and you don't have powerheads, refugum or sump yet. Don T.
 
locoyo386

locoyo386

Member
Originally Posted by PhxJosh
http:///forum/post/2888430
I have been doing a lot of reading online, but I am still a little confused on the filtration aspect of a SW tank using LR.
If I go with a FO setup, what do I do for filtration exactly? I am going to be using the Octopus BH-100 protein skimmer, just not sure what else I need to buy?
If I decide to use LR, I would only be able to buy around 25-30lbs to start with, would that be enough for a 55g tank, or should I do a combo of LR and base rock?
If I do not use LR, what can I use to aquascape the tank? I would like some decent coloring.
THANKS!
Hi there,
This is just my opinion, and posting it as it has worked for me so far.
I setup a 55 gallon tank with live sand and live rock.
I used 60 lbs of live sand (argonite), more coarse than reef sand.
I used 20 lbs of live rock, only to provide housing for my niger trigger.
I used fake coral for aquascaping, not working all that well. I would recomend dead corals instead.
I am using two emperor filters rated at 400 gph each (800 gph total).
2-aquaclear powerheads rated at 126 ghp each (252 gph total)
The heater and lighting that came with the kit.
I only have 3 fish in the tank (2-damsels and 1-niger trigger [2"-3" long]).
Also I set it up this way as it will become my quarantine tank for future tanks. I will keep this tank running untill I can set up my big tank or the trigger gets around 6", which ever comes first. Once again this is just what has been working for me, not sure if it will crash in time or not. Good luck with yours.
 
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