Flame Angel Develops Ich Overnight? Help Please!
- Thread starter yannifish
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yannifish
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiefers http:///forum/thread/384607/flame-angel-develops-ich-overnight-help-please/20#post_3369972
I did not mean to state you had ich in your DT, sorry if it came off sounding that way. Lol... my bad.... personally.... I would do a hypo, but thats just me.
Lol, that's fine.
I agree, I'm going to go hypo. I'd rather be safe than sorry, and should start while the fish is still strong.
I'm going to go prepare some freshwater. Get it temperature and pH stabilized.
How much water do you think I should replace? It's a ten gallon tank. Beth's thread says to lower the salinity over the course of 48 hours, so that's what I'll do.
Maybe I'll just replace a pitcher full every hour or two, and see where that gets me.
Oh, and thank you for all the help up to this point! Please keep it coming, I'm sure I'll have more questions as time goes on.
Originally Posted by Kiefers http:///forum/thread/384607/flame-angel-develops-ich-overnight-help-please/20#post_3369972
I did not mean to state you had ich in your DT, sorry if it came off sounding that way. Lol... my bad.... personally.... I would do a hypo, but thats just me.
Lol, that's fine.
I agree, I'm going to go hypo. I'd rather be safe than sorry, and should start while the fish is still strong.
I'm going to go prepare some freshwater. Get it temperature and pH stabilized.
How much water do you think I should replace? It's a ten gallon tank. Beth's thread says to lower the salinity over the course of 48 hours, so that's what I'll do.
Maybe I'll just replace a pitcher full every hour or two, and see where that gets me.
Oh, and thank you for all the help up to this point! Please keep it coming, I'm sure I'll have more questions as time goes on.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Quote:
They were visible this morning, not visible when I got home, and visible again now.
this does not sound like ick.
start hypo add an air stone to the HT if you dont have one. read up on fresh water dip if you dont know the procedure. only dip if fish seems to have impacted gills
They were visible this morning, not visible when I got home, and visible again now.
this does not sound like ick.
start hypo add an air stone to the HT if you dont have one. read up on fresh water dip if you dont know the procedure. only dip if fish seems to have impacted gills
yannifish
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/384607/flame-angel-develops-ich-overnight-help-please/20#post_3370029
this does not sound like ick.
start hypo add an air stone to the HT if you dont have one. read up on fresh water dip if you dont know the procedure. only dip if fish seems to have impacted gills
What do you think it could be? The spots are gone again today. She seemed a little stressed, and was pacing and hanging out at the surface, so I added another piece of PVC which seemed to help considerably. She's swimming all around the tank, not pacing along the glass, and is picking at the PVC much more.
Why should I put in an air stone? Does it help control the pH? I have a powerhead going right now. It has a venturi hook up for airline tubing, could I use that instead of an air stone?
I've done freshwater dips before, but I'll read up on them again anyway just so I'm up to date.
The freshwater is in a bucket heating up and balancing out the dissolved gasses. Once it's at temperature I'll test the pH, add buffer if needed, and get hypo going.
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/384607/flame-angel-develops-ich-overnight-help-please/20#post_3370029
this does not sound like ick.
start hypo add an air stone to the HT if you dont have one. read up on fresh water dip if you dont know the procedure. only dip if fish seems to have impacted gills
What do you think it could be? The spots are gone again today. She seemed a little stressed, and was pacing and hanging out at the surface, so I added another piece of PVC which seemed to help considerably. She's swimming all around the tank, not pacing along the glass, and is picking at the PVC much more.
Why should I put in an air stone? Does it help control the pH? I have a powerhead going right now. It has a venturi hook up for airline tubing, could I use that instead of an air stone?
I've done freshwater dips before, but I'll read up on them again anyway just so I'm up to date.
The freshwater is in a bucket heating up and balancing out the dissolved gasses. Once it's at temperature I'll test the pH, add buffer if needed, and get hypo going.
nikesb
Active Member
I'm curious to know if its ich or not at this point. I'm going through the same thing with my tank, literally GONE the day that it started, but it looks like ich.
I'm almost willing to say that there might be various strains of ******, some more severe than others. kind of like a cold
Can anyone verify if ****** is a parasitic protozoan?
I'm almost willing to say that there might be various strains of ******, some more severe than others. kind of like a cold
Can anyone verify if ****** is a parasitic protozoan?
kiefers
Active Member
2 of 2
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Saltwater Ich (Cryptocaryon) Life Cycle
Cryptocaryon Biological Cycle
Graphic by Stan Hauter
Most (wild captured) fish carry the Cryptocaryon parasite in the their gills in the Tomont Stage 1. A vast majority of Saltwater Ich outbreaks occur when new fish are introduced into an aquarium. The stress generated by capture and shipping is one of the main causes of the cysts in the gills being released, generating Trophont Stage 2.
The gill mucus encasing the Cryptocaryon parasite in the Tomont Stage 1 renders most, if not all treatments, virtually ineffective at this stage.
Hyposalinity (Osmotic Shock Therapy) and chemical treatments are most effective when the Tomites (the actual parasites) are most vulnerable, during their free swimming stage. Hyposalinity literally explodes the Cryptocaryon cysts in Trophont Stages 2 & 4, exposing the Tomites to both chemical and further Hyposalinity treatments.
Previous Next
Saltwater Ich (Cryptocaryon) Life Cycle
Cryptocaryon Biological Cycle
Graphic by Stan Hauter
Most (wild captured) fish carry the Cryptocaryon parasite in the their gills in the Tomont Stage 1. A vast majority of Saltwater Ich outbreaks occur when new fish are introduced into an aquarium. The stress generated by capture and shipping is one of the main causes of the cysts in the gills being released, generating Trophont Stage 2.
The gill mucus encasing the Cryptocaryon parasite in the Tomont Stage 1 renders most, if not all treatments, virtually ineffective at this stage.
Hyposalinity (Osmotic Shock Therapy) and chemical treatments are most effective when the Tomites (the actual parasites) are most vulnerable, during their free swimming stage. Hyposalinity literally explodes the Cryptocaryon cysts in Trophont Stages 2 & 4, exposing the Tomites to both chemical and further Hyposalinity treatments.
kiefers
Active Member
The old saying that 'prevention is the best form of medicine' is very true of all marine disease, but especially true of Cryptocaryon. All new fish should be placed in a quarantine tank for at least ten days to make sure that they are eating, free of disease, and so they are not being bullied in a new tank. Any sick fish can be treated before being added to the display tank. Remember though, a quarantine tank needs to be clean; appropriately sized; have the necessary biological, mechanical, and chemical filters; and have adequate hiding places or it can actually increase the stress level of the fish.
Stress is the enemy of fish health. Cryptocaryon will target stressed fish with lowered immune systems. Anything we can do to reduce the stress that fish undergo will decrease both the disease incidence, mortality, and improve treatment results. Remember that almost all marine fish are wild harvested and are extremely stressed by the time they reach your home. These fish need to be handled very carefully to avoid disease outbreaks. They need to have perfect water quality, correct nutrition, a stable temperature, and places to hide and feel secure. If any of these needs are not met, then the already stressed fish will likely develop marine ich or another disease. h
Some owners will place all new fish into a quarantine tank that is being treated with copper. Remember that these newly arrived fish are very stressed, and copper or other treatments can add additional stress. Once the fish has had several days to a week to acclimate and is eating well, then prophylactic treatment can be performed, however, it is never good medicine to routinely treat healthy fish. In fact, treating healthy fish should be avoided in both the show tank and the quarantine tank.
Stress is the enemy of fish health. Cryptocaryon will target stressed fish with lowered immune systems. Anything we can do to reduce the stress that fish undergo will decrease both the disease incidence, mortality, and improve treatment results. Remember that almost all marine fish are wild harvested and are extremely stressed by the time they reach your home. These fish need to be handled very carefully to avoid disease outbreaks. They need to have perfect water quality, correct nutrition, a stable temperature, and places to hide and feel secure. If any of these needs are not met, then the already stressed fish will likely develop marine ich or another disease. h
Some owners will place all new fish into a quarantine tank that is being treated with copper. Remember that these newly arrived fish are very stressed, and copper or other treatments can add additional stress. Once the fish has had several days to a week to acclimate and is eating well, then prophylactic treatment can be performed, however, it is never good medicine to routinely treat healthy fish. In fact, treating healthy fish should be avoided in both the show tank and the quarantine tank.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Quote:Originally Posted by Kiefers http:///forum/thread/384607/flame-angel-develops-ich-overnight-help-please/20#post_3370057
2 of 2
Previous Next
Saltwater Ich (Cryptocaryon) Life Cycle
Cryptocaryon Biological Cycle
Graphic by Stan Hauter
Most (wild captured) fish carry the Cryptocaryon parasite in the their gills in the Tomont Stage 1. A vast majority of Saltwater Ich outbreaks occur when new fish are introduced into an aquarium. The stress generated by capture and shipping is one of the main causes of the cysts in the gills being released, generating Trophont Stage 2.
The gill mucus encasing the Cryptocaryon parasite in the Tomont Stage 1 renders most, if not all treatments, virtually ineffective at this stage.
Hyposalinity (Osmotic Shock Therapy) and chemical treatments are most effective when the Tomites (the actual parasites) are most vulnerable, during their free swimming stage. Hyposalinity literally explodes the Cryptocaryon cysts in Trophont Stages 2 & 4, exposing the Tomites to both chemical and further Hyposalinity treatments.
I cannot even believe this was published somewhere.
First most wild caught fish DO NOT have the parasite in their gills very few if any wild caught fish have ick. Tiny fish vast ocean with constant currents, long odds for a fish to get ick. Now take that fish that has been caught it goes to a cramped holding facility now if that facility has a cycle of ick in progress the odds go through the roof, no we have the retailer. Even if they run copper which most do you can still bring home an infected fish?
Stress DOES not cause the cysts in the gills to be released; stress causes the immune system to become suppressed making the fish more vulnerable to infestation.
There IS NO known treatment to fully treat ick while it is in its parasitic stage attached to the fish
Hypo brakes the cycle of ick by not providing osmotic pressure for the ick to divide and multiply
Air stone, you want to keep your water as super saturated as you can you may find that you have to treat with chemicals that will deplete you tank of oxygen also it will help if the parasites impact the gills and if you raise the temp to speed up the life cycle of ick (if in fact it is) you also increase the respiration rate of the fish and the added oxygen is helpful
kiefers
Active Member
I can see your thinking process behind this Joe. Why not humor us unexperienced young hobbiest where you get your information so we to can learn as well. I know that the parasite is well diluted in the ocean and i am unfamiliar on what the captures do to the critters once caught. Do they put the newly caught fish in infected containers or with infected fish? Education is the best weapon against assumption.
yannifish
Active Member
Yes, I think they are having issues. I couldn't quote either.
Joe, you said I should start hypo? I just added buffer to the freshwater to adjust the pH to tank level, and will start changing out saltwater for freshwater once the temp increases two more degrees. I'm thinking I'll take out a pitcher full (.25 gallons?) and the drip in the same amount of freshwater. That way the drop will be gradual. Sound good?
About the air stone, wont that just cause pH to drop even more? I'll be fighting the pH to begin with because of the lower salinity, so wont an air stone just make matter worse?
And should I increase the temperature of the tank? It's at 80 degrees right now.
Joe, you said I should start hypo? I just added buffer to the freshwater to adjust the pH to tank level, and will start changing out saltwater for freshwater once the temp increases two more degrees. I'm thinking I'll take out a pitcher full (.25 gallons?) and the drip in the same amount of freshwater. That way the drop will be gradual. Sound good?
About the air stone, wont that just cause pH to drop even more? I'll be fighting the pH to begin with because of the lower salinity, so wont an air stone just make matter worse?
And should I increase the temperature of the tank? It's at 80 degrees right now.
nikesb
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiefers http:///forum/thread/384607/flame-angel-develops-ich-overnight-help-please/20#post_3370069
I can see your thinking process behind this Joe. Why not humor us unexperienced young hobbiest where you get your information so we to can learn as well. I know that the parasite is well diluted in the ocean and i am unfamiliar on what the captures do to the critters once caught. Do they put the newly caught fish in infected containers or with infected fish? Education is the best weapon against assumption.
Most wholesalers have copper in their holding tanks for their fishes to reduce livestock losses
Originally Posted by Kiefers http:///forum/thread/384607/flame-angel-develops-ich-overnight-help-please/20#post_3370069
I can see your thinking process behind this Joe. Why not humor us unexperienced young hobbiest where you get your information so we to can learn as well. I know that the parasite is well diluted in the ocean and i am unfamiliar on what the captures do to the critters once caught. Do they put the newly caught fish in infected containers or with infected fish? Education is the best weapon against assumption.
Most wholesalers have copper in their holding tanks for their fishes to reduce livestock losses
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiefers http:///forum/thread/384607/flame-angel-develops-ich-overnight-help-please/20#post_3370069
I can see your thinking process behind this Joe. Why not humor us unexperienced young hobbiest where you get your information so we to can learn as well. I know that the parasite is well diluted in the ocean and i am unfamiliar on what the captures do to the critters once caught. Do they put the newly caught fish in infected containers or with infected fish? Education is the best weapon against assumption.
You can start by contacting any public aquarium I personally like Mote marine in Florida also look at not one but multiple published reports on the ick parasite. Research hypo on the web and see how the lowering of salinity affects osmotic pressure differential and how it breaks the life cycle and of course seek the opinions of hobbyists on the boards most of which are much more knowledgeable then I. My good friend seek and you shall find. (That I am right
)
Originally Posted by Kiefers http:///forum/thread/384607/flame-angel-develops-ich-overnight-help-please/20#post_3370069
I can see your thinking process behind this Joe. Why not humor us unexperienced young hobbiest where you get your information so we to can learn as well. I know that the parasite is well diluted in the ocean and i am unfamiliar on what the captures do to the critters once caught. Do they put the newly caught fish in infected containers or with infected fish? Education is the best weapon against assumption.
You can start by contacting any public aquarium I personally like Mote marine in Florida also look at not one but multiple published reports on the ick parasite. Research hypo on the web and see how the lowering of salinity affects osmotic pressure differential and how it breaks the life cycle and of course seek the opinions of hobbyists on the boards most of which are much more knowledgeable then I. My good friend seek and you shall find. (That I am right
florida joe
Well-Known Member
I am going to have to disagree here wholesalers run a much quicker in and out facility. If they cull fish with obvious signs of ick it’s no great loss because as I stated very very few fish wild caught have ick. For them to keep copper at lethal levels to break the cycle of ick (free swimming stage) would not be coast efficient IMO. I do believe LFS run copper but again you would have to have no lapses in therapeutic levels of copper and separate tanks for livestock that cannot be exposed to copper. Unfortunately infected fish much too often are sold to the hobbyist
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by yannifish http:///forum/thread/384607/flame-angel-develops-ich-overnight-help-please/20#post_3370070
Yes, I think they are having issues. I couldn't quote either.
Joe, you said I should start hypo? I just added buffer to the freshwater to adjust the pH to tank level, and will start changing out saltwater for freshwater once the temp increases two more degrees. I'm thinking I'll take out a pitcher full (.25 gallons?) and the drip in the same amount of freshwater. That way the drop will be gradual. Sound good?
About the air stone, wont that just cause pH to drop even more? I'll be fighting the pH to begin with because of the lower salinity, so wont an air stone just make matter worse?
And should I increase the temperature of the tank? It's at 80 degrees right now.
dropping salinity rate sounds good i would not worry about ph with the air stone just check and add buffer if needed
Originally Posted by yannifish http:///forum/thread/384607/flame-angel-develops-ich-overnight-help-please/20#post_3370070
Yes, I think they are having issues. I couldn't quote either.
Joe, you said I should start hypo? I just added buffer to the freshwater to adjust the pH to tank level, and will start changing out saltwater for freshwater once the temp increases two more degrees. I'm thinking I'll take out a pitcher full (.25 gallons?) and the drip in the same amount of freshwater. That way the drop will be gradual. Sound good?
About the air stone, wont that just cause pH to drop even more? I'll be fighting the pH to begin with because of the lower salinity, so wont an air stone just make matter worse?
And should I increase the temperature of the tank? It's at 80 degrees right now.
dropping salinity rate sounds good i would not worry about ph with the air stone just check and add buffer if needed
yannifish
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/384607/flame-angel-develops-ich-overnight-help-please/20#post_3370104
dropping salinity rate sounds good i would not worry about ph with the air stone just check and add buffer if needed
The first pitcher of pH matched freshwater is dripping into the QT right now. I'll see where we are with salinity after that.
I'll have to go to walmart to get an air stone, I don't have one right now. But I'll get one. Should I keep running the powerhead?
Also, you mentioned raising the temperature of the tank. Should I do this?
I also made an observation. When I look really carefully when the fish is right next to the glass with my face almost against the glass, I can see the dots. So maybe the lighting conditions in the room the tank is in have an effect on the visibility of the dots. It seems like I can only seem them when the room is dark. Does this sound like a possibility?
And thanks for the help everyone, it is greatly appreciated.
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/384607/flame-angel-develops-ich-overnight-help-please/20#post_3370104
dropping salinity rate sounds good i would not worry about ph with the air stone just check and add buffer if needed
The first pitcher of pH matched freshwater is dripping into the QT right now. I'll see where we are with salinity after that.
I'll have to go to walmart to get an air stone, I don't have one right now. But I'll get one. Should I keep running the powerhead?
Also, you mentioned raising the temperature of the tank. Should I do this?
I also made an observation. When I look really carefully when the fish is right next to the glass with my face almost against the glass, I can see the dots. So maybe the lighting conditions in the room the tank is in have an effect on the visibility of the dots. It seems like I can only seem them when the room is dark. Does this sound like a possibility?
And thanks for the help everyone, it is greatly appreciated.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Yes run the power head. Raising the temp is a personal preference and IMO not a necessity unless your fish are extremely infected . I will let you in on a little trick I use if you have a large wine glass you can put your fish (and water if course) in it this keeps the fish in a confined area and the glass magnifies so you can get a good look at him
nikesb
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/384607/flame-angel-develops-ich-overnight-help-please/20#post_3370099
I am going to have to disagree here wholesalers run a much quicker in and out facility. If they cull fish with obvious signs of ick it’s no great loss because as I stated very very few fish wild caught have ick. For them to keep copper at lethal levels to break the cycle of ick (free swimming stage) would not be coast efficient IMO. I do believe LFS run copper but again you would have to have no lapses in therapeutic levels of copper and separate tanks for livestock that cannot be exposed to copper. Unfortunately infected fish much too often are sold to the hobbyist
where is my head today. I do not mean the wholesalers here in mainland america, but the wholesale sources themselves run copper in their systems. the ones in indonesia, hawaii, philippines all run copper in their holding tanks, though its kind of debatable because the fish are probably only there for 2 weeks before they get shipped out. i have personally a couple in hawaii, and all systems were running copper
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/384607/flame-angel-develops-ich-overnight-help-please/20#post_3370099
I am going to have to disagree here wholesalers run a much quicker in and out facility. If they cull fish with obvious signs of ick it’s no great loss because as I stated very very few fish wild caught have ick. For them to keep copper at lethal levels to break the cycle of ick (free swimming stage) would not be coast efficient IMO. I do believe LFS run copper but again you would have to have no lapses in therapeutic levels of copper and separate tanks for livestock that cannot be exposed to copper. Unfortunately infected fish much too often are sold to the hobbyist
where is my head today. I do not mean the wholesalers here in mainland america, but the wholesale sources themselves run copper in their systems. the ones in indonesia, hawaii, philippines all run copper in their holding tanks, though its kind of debatable because the fish are probably only there for 2 weeks before they get shipped out. i have personally a couple in hawaii, and all systems were running copper
yannifish
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/384607/flame-angel-develops-ich-overnight-help-please/20#post_3370129
Yes run the power head. Raising the temp is a personal preference and IMO not a necessity unless your fish are extremely infected . I will let you in on a little trick I use if you have a large wine glass you can put your fish (and water if course) in it this keeps the fish in a confined area and the glass magnifies so you can get a good look at him
Well I don't have an extreme case of ich. I'll leave the temp where it is. It seems like raising it at this point would just cause unneeded stress.
That's a great idea, maybe I'll try it.
One pitcher full of freshwater has dripped in. The salinity was about 31 ppt. So I went ahead and started dripping another one. I have five gallons of freshwater with a pH of 8.2 ready to go right now.
Angel seems fine so far, its behavior hasn't been affected by the salinity drop.
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/384607/flame-angel-develops-ich-overnight-help-please/20#post_3370129
Yes run the power head. Raising the temp is a personal preference and IMO not a necessity unless your fish are extremely infected . I will let you in on a little trick I use if you have a large wine glass you can put your fish (and water if course) in it this keeps the fish in a confined area and the glass magnifies so you can get a good look at him
Well I don't have an extreme case of ich. I'll leave the temp where it is. It seems like raising it at this point would just cause unneeded stress.
That's a great idea, maybe I'll try it.
One pitcher full of freshwater has dripped in. The salinity was about 31 ppt. So I went ahead and started dripping another one. I have five gallons of freshwater with a pH of 8.2 ready to go right now.
Angel seems fine so far, its behavior hasn't been affected by the salinity drop.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Sounds good just a note on the lowering of salinity and then bringing it up to normal levels. The consensus of opinion is that fish can handle a faster drop in salinity then they can handle a rapid rise