flashing/ick
- Thread starter cjrose
- Start date
S
shrimpy brains
Guest
+1 Some fish just flash!
cjrose
Member
Long story. 6 of my fish had/have ick. I confirmed with a pic sent to Beth. I have been doing cupramine and have had problems with the seachem test kit. When I put enough cupramine in the tank to read .5 on the seachem test I almost lost my Blue tang. He was in the corner on his side breathing REALLY hard. He's never done that. I had been testing with both the seachem and api kits. When I got the .5 reading on the api kit I would only get a .3 on the seachem. When I got .5 on the seachem kit I got a much darker reading on the api kit. Probably .7ish. That's when my tang flipped out. Because of this I did a 20% water change with water that was not treated with cupramine. Within about an hour my tang was back to normal. I left the tank as is. Since it's now been about a month in qt with cupramine I decided to start water changes w/o the cupramine. I did a 30 % change. Within 3 days my tang and one of my clowns were scratching. Now I know if they do still have ick it is because of error on my part. I'm just afraid to overdose and kill my fish.
I did call seachem per Joe's recommendation because when i was doing the baseline test I wasn't getting a reading of .5 till well over a minute. I was told to take the darkest reading I got within a couple minutes of doing the test. So I did this and tested the water from my qt and put in enough cupramine to get the .5 reading and that's when my tang almost bit the dust.
I have had to feed less because the nitrates were coming up. They were really high. I have them down to 20 now and will do another water change tonight to bring them down to 10 or 15. That said I was told that sometimes fish will scratch due to trying to loosen up food. I don't know. I do know that they aren't going anywhere near my dt until I'm sure they don't have ick.
Anyway, I figured I would watch them for a week or so and see if any spots turn up.
I did call seachem per Joe's recommendation because when i was doing the baseline test I wasn't getting a reading of .5 till well over a minute. I was told to take the darkest reading I got within a couple minutes of doing the test. So I did this and tested the water from my qt and put in enough cupramine to get the .5 reading and that's when my tang almost bit the dust.
I have had to feed less because the nitrates were coming up. They were really high. I have them down to 20 now and will do another water change tonight to bring them down to 10 or 15. That said I was told that sometimes fish will scratch due to trying to loosen up food. I don't know. I do know that they aren't going anywhere near my dt until I'm sure they don't have ick.
Anyway, I figured I would watch them for a week or so and see if any spots turn up.
cjrose
Member
I did 2 courses of hypo. The 1st one was last fall and lasted almost 8 weeks. I was pretty sure that I did it correctly. 3 weeks after they were back in the DT the tang had spots again. So at that point I did hypo again in the dt. Took out all the rock and inverts. Left the sand bed. Did hypo for a month. I was VERY careful. Tested the water everyday. Had it at 1.008 the whole time. Had water premixed at 1.008 to make water changes easier. About 2 weeks after I brought them out of hypo the ick was back. Yes I used a refractometer. I prefer to do hypo. It's so much easier and you don't have to worry about over dosing the fish. If ick is back this time I know it's due to my error.
As of right now there's 160 lbs of rock, several inverts, and some xenia that a friend gave me in my DT. I do have a coral beauty, royal gramma and watchman goby in separate qts. I've had the gramma and goby for 4 weeks with no sign of parasites. The coral beauty I've had for 3 weeks and I've not seen any parasites with him either. I'm gonna give them another 2 weeks before I put them in the DT.
As of right now there's 160 lbs of rock, several inverts, and some xenia that a friend gave me in my DT. I do have a coral beauty, royal gramma and watchman goby in separate qts. I've had the gramma and goby for 4 weeks with no sign of parasites. The coral beauty I've had for 3 weeks and I've not seen any parasites with him either. I'm gonna give them another 2 weeks before I put them in the DT.
ibanez
Member
I am wondering what kind of diet your feeding them, or what could be causing the stress in them to not be able to fight off the ick. Granted, even a healthy fish cant always fight off ick, but it seems like your problem is a little more than the usual ick outbreak. Maybe old or cheap food? I don't know but it is something to consider.
cjrose
Member
It's not a matter of fighting off the ick. It's a matter of having a parasite free tank. I feel them a formula 2, emerald green, and gut-loaded mysis...These are all soaked in zoecon prior to feeding. I also have red/brown garlic algae strips. I would rather have to put this time and work in now and have an ick free tank than worry that in the future if there's ick in the tank and the fish get stressed I'll have an outbreak. As of right now I have not seen a spot on any of the fish in over a month. But that doesn't mean it's not in the gills where I can't see it.
ibanez
Member
As said, no fish in the dt for at least six weeks should make it a parasite free tank, however, if the ick is hanging on in qt somehow and not completely wiped out, which in my opinion could be some parts the treatment and some parts the fishs ability to fight off the parasite before it completes its cycle, you will just carry it back on the fish when you put them back in the dt. But sounds like you give them a good diet, I wonder if your temp fluxuates a lot in qt which could cause more stress in the fish. Even so, I understand that the copper should have done the trick and so should hypo. I understand your frustration.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Carmen not all white spots are the result of the ick parasite , you may in fact have a look alike infestation which may have a longer time line then ick, hang in there with the treatment
cranberry
Active Member
My friends have used Quick Cure for ich lately and have found it worked well. This is not first hand experience..... but it's soon to be, hopefully with the same result. The parasite my volitans has looks like ich from outside appearance and I can't get rid of it. We've fixed the stressor, I've started dosing vitamin C and feeding daily Beta Glucan, but if we see it starting to come back we have a 60g up and ready to go for him with Quick Cure. There was a few dots on his a couple of days ago. All these reoccurances of ich has probably shaved years off his life... I'm ticked.
cjrose
Member
Thanks guys. I did a big water change yesterday to get the nitrates down and I redosed the tank with cupramine. Before I dosed it the API kit was reading .25 and after I dosed it was reading .50. Interesting thing is that since I brought the levels back up to .50 my fish have stopped flashing. My plan is to keep them in cupramine for another 3 weeks and then do a water change with unmedicated water plus the addition of charcol to get out the remaining cupramine. I'll them give them another week in qt to see if anything shows up.
Joe, I haven't seen any white spots on the fish in over a month. Other than the flashing from my tang 1 of my clowns and my blenny, they seem to be healthy and eating very well. My clowns and chromis even follow me around the tank when I come over to watch them. I think they are begging for more food just like my 6 freshwater orandas do...lol
Cranberry, I used quick cure in my Oranda tank a couple years ago when I had a horrible outbreak of freshwater ick. I lost 8 orandas. I was devastated. One of them I had gotten 8 years earlier and was only an inch long. When she died she was bigger than my fist. Anyway, the quick cure didn't even make a dent in the ick. As long as the process has been with saltwater fish, I have not lost a fish due to ick. I have however lost them due to stupid mistakes but there is a learning curve when it comes to saltwater tanks. Also the active ingredients in quick cure are malachite green and formalin. I thought these meds didn't do anything for marine ick. Please let us know how it goes if you try it.
Joe, I haven't seen any white spots on the fish in over a month. Other than the flashing from my tang 1 of my clowns and my blenny, they seem to be healthy and eating very well. My clowns and chromis even follow me around the tank when I come over to watch them. I think they are begging for more food just like my 6 freshwater orandas do...lol
Cranberry, I used quick cure in my Oranda tank a couple years ago when I had a horrible outbreak of freshwater ick. I lost 8 orandas. I was devastated. One of them I had gotten 8 years earlier and was only an inch long. When she died she was bigger than my fist. Anyway, the quick cure didn't even make a dent in the ick. As long as the process has been with saltwater fish, I have not lost a fish due to ick. I have however lost them due to stupid mistakes but there is a learning curve when it comes to saltwater tanks. Also the active ingredients in quick cure are malachite green and formalin. I thought these meds didn't do anything for marine ick. Please let us know how it goes if you try it.
cranberry
Active Member
They aren't primary meds I'd use or recommend, but they are used in aquaculture for ich. I'm a little weary of doing copper on the lion... and after the trouble you're having, I'm a little more weary. The hypo is not working... so where do I go from here *shrugs*. I try something else, I guess. If this wasn't recommeded to me by the friends that did, I don't think I would have tried it.
So to repeat
Cranberry is not now recommending Quick Cure for Ich.
So to repeat
Cranberry is not now recommending Quick Cure for Ich.
cranberry
Active Member
*the sound of brakes*
I just heard back from a friend who has had a terrible time dealing with ich lately in the fish that come in. She has seen results with Quinine Sulfate... THAT'S what I'm going to try if I have to.
But first I'm going to bump up the vitamins and Beta Glucan now that we have removed a potential stressor. If we did not change his environment, we wouldn't be going the "nutrition route", but would skip right to treatment. But we're hoping that now he is in a better environment, his immune system will bump back up and he can get this under control. Being a shedding fish is also beneficial
I just heard back from a friend who has had a terrible time dealing with ich lately in the fish that come in. She has seen results with Quinine Sulfate... THAT'S what I'm going to try if I have to.
But first I'm going to bump up the vitamins and Beta Glucan now that we have removed a potential stressor. If we did not change his environment, we wouldn't be going the "nutrition route", but would skip right to treatment. But we're hoping that now he is in a better environment, his immune system will bump back up and he can get this under control. Being a shedding fish is also beneficial
cjrose
Member
Just to let you know, the trouble I'm having with copper is because of my error not because of the product. I'm a chicken and I'm afraid of overdosing the fish. I don't trust the seachem copper test because of what happened with my tang. I do think I need to add a little more copper to the tank but when I do I will keep a close eye on the fish in case I need to do a water change to reduce the copper.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
your fish flashing can be the result of the copper being an irritant
srfisher17
Active Member
I've used Cupramine & a SeaChem copper test on many, many fish (all new fish) in QT for a long time. I'm sure something is bound to come along that works just as well; there sure have been enough products that don't work. I remember Seachem had a problem with one of their test kits 2-3 years ago. I think it was the copper (but not 100% sure, it may have been phos or silicate) and some of these kits could still be around. In any case, If you call SeaChem tech support; they should be able to help. I often say this; if a company doesn't have good tech support, I don't buy their stuff. Just Google them for the number. I'm a firm believer in using a test kit made by the same mfg as the copper ( a hint from Beth a while back) and I've found the SeaChem copper & tests to be outstanding. (Except for the above reagent incident.). I have about 750 gals with lots of fish and every one has been treated with Cupramine (and a de-wormer).