For Fox news fans.

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/160#post_3304062
How much are you going to cut from a premium by omiiting fertility treatments and drug counseling? Those are 'one offs' that a small minority of individuals would use, and they cost hardly anything to insurnace providers to cover. So you're saying you want each state to dictate what can or can't be covered in my health insurance plan? So does this go back to if I can't get a policy that protects me for things I want covered, I have to move to a state that does? Again, you make it sound like there's hundreds of insurance companies vying for customers to come buy their plans. You local insurance agent doesn't actually provide the coverage. He contracts out to one of these major providers for their services, and gets his cut of the premiums for it. Again, what guarantee would I have that some insurance I bought in Florida would be accepted by any health providers in Texas?
 
WHo cares how much? It all adds up. We still have to deal with the malpractice situation which is costing us plenty no matter how the service is delivered
 

 

[spanko]

On the war machine issue, I say stop the "war" in Afghanistan and bring the troops home. Then shut down the bases that we have around the world and bring the troops home. We should not be out there "guaranteeing" protection, or staging our troops "in case of a conflict". Use the money saved to pay down the enormous debt that Mr. Bush started and Mr. Obama has tripled over that. We should be protecting our borders from invasion by unauthorized illegal immigrants and setting up a military that will protect the citizens of America.

 

[darthtang aw]

Quote:
Originally Posted by marydem http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/140#post_3303944
the stimulus created/saved 1.6 million jobs and GDP was 3.2% higher than without the stimulus.
(http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/69923-cbo-stimulus-saved-or-created-as-many-as-16m-jobs)
 
my point is that we would have been in the depths of a full-scale depression if the stimulus hadn't passed. thanks to President Obama and a Democratic congress for saving the economy from ruin.
That is only about 500,000 dollars per job........that was effective.and no we would not be in a fullscale depression...take away those jobs and we would be no worse off than the 70's. Bad, yes, but not a depression. how many of those jobs have dissappearred now that the census is done...you do realize THAT is where most of those jobs came from. GDP was that high as well in 2007 WITHOUT a stimulus.GDP has risen steadily for the last decade...with the exception being 2009.....and it was climbing back up BEFORE the stimulus passed.

 

[spanko]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/180#post_3304086
That is only about 500,000 dollars per job........that was effective.and no we would not be in a fullscale depression...take away those jobs and we would be no worse off than the 70's. Bad, yes, but not a depression. how many of those jobs have disappeared now that the census is done...you do realize THAT is where most of those jobs came from. GDP was that high as well in 2007 WITHOUT a stimulus.GDP has risen steadily for the last decade...with the exception being 2009.....and it was climbing back up BEFORE the stimulus passed.
Did you add on the cost of the interest on the debt payments to this number? Remember this is not our money, we are deficit spending. Marydem, you are okay with robbing from future generations to get what you want for you today?

 

[darthtang aw]

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/160#post_3304064
You can't compare the jobs that were created during WWII with the jobs that were generated for this Iraq Conflict. There is no comparison. In WWII, American manufacturing plants prospered building ships, tanks, planes, and all the other items needed to fight that war. We haven't prospered economically or increased our employment statistics since with any other US involvement in a war (Korean War, VietNam, Gulf War 1, Gulf War 2). The only one's making money off the Iraq War are these contractors and consultants like Halliburton. How many companies in your area opened up in the last 8 years specifically designed to support the Iraq War?
Actually it assisted ther metal finishing industry quite a bit. When the tech boom burst, this industry suffered greatly. when the war was ramping up the military complex filled the void for these companies left by the tech bubble. Instead of finishing circuit boards for computers for hoimes and such, they were finishing circuit boards for military hardware...assisting in R&D...I personally dropped a layer of gold and copper on some crazy looking piece of hardware that was to be used in laser research for the military...

 

[darthtang aw]

Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/180#post_3304091
Quote:
Did you add on the cost of the interest on the debt payments to this number? Remember this is not our money, we are deficit spending. Marydem, you are okay with robbing from future generations to get what you want for you today?
I didnt want to get to indepth....the basic figure without interest is enough to prove the point.
 

 

[bionicarm]

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/160#post_3304068
I am not comparing the two, just saying from a dollar and cents standpoint Iraq has created jobs so that trillion has added to the economy, probably as much as the Ostimulus.
Come on. How many billions have we literally donated to the Iraqi government, and also the people of that country that we'll never see any benefit or return? And you think that number is smaller than some of Obama's stimulus plan? There's what, 250 million 'legal' citizens in this country? Do the math. If you took $1.1 trillon, and divided that into 250 million, what do you get? That's what you could have in your pocket today if the Iraq War would've never started.
 

 

[darthtang aw]

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/180#post_3304095
 
Come on. How many billions have we literally donated to the Iraqi government, and also the people of that country that we'll never see any benefit or return? And you think that number is smaller than some of Obama's stimulus plan? There's what, 250 million 'legal' citizens in this country? Do the math. If you took $1.1 trillon, and divided that into 250 million, what do you get? That's what you could have in your pocket today if the Iraq War would've never started.
 
Really...I thought it was deficit spending....how can imaginary money go into my pocket? My grandchildren...maybe...but not ours.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/180#post_3304095
 
Come on. How many billions have we literally donated to the Iraqi government, and also the people of that country that we'll never see any benefit or return? And you think that number is smaller than some of Obama's stimulus plan? There's what, 250 million 'legal' citizens in this country? Do the math. If you took $1.1 trillon, and divided that into 250 million, what do you get? That's what you could have in your pocket today if the Iraq War would've never started.
 
 
Yeah but the real jobs created here from the military suppliers are real jobs, not some temporary census workers or a year long study of the mating ritual of the long eared fruit bat.
 

 

[stdreb27]

you really think that Sadaam especially concidering their previous history wouldn't be in an arms race right now with Iran...

 

[bionicarm]

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/180#post_3304113
you really think that Sadaam especially concidering their previous history wouldn't be in an arms race right now with Iran...
Naw, he was even more radical than that. He'd be aligning with North Korea. They're about ready to start lobbing nukes towards Alaska if you lsiten to their latest talks. Interesting that the Administration, even while Dubya was in office, tend to let those sleeping dawgs lie. Why didn't Bushy go after that North Korean Emporer/Dictator like he did Sadaam?
 
Guess we'll need to ask Sarah if she can see a vapor trail from an ICBM out of her kitchen window.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/180#post_3304125
 
Naw, he was even more radical than that. He'd be aligning with North Korea. They're about ready to start lobbing nukes towards Alaska if you lsiten to their latest talks. Interesting that the Administration, even while Dubya was in office, tend to let those sleeping dawgs lie. Why didn't Bushy go after that North Korean Emporer/Dictator like he did Sadaam?
 
Guess we'll need to ask Sarah if she can see a vapor trail from an ICBM out of her kitchen window.

If you go to war against North Korea you go to war with China. We had our chance to solve the Korea issue in the 50's and didn't take it. We could have handled China back then, now it would be a disaster. China's prosperity is what will keep Korea in check, they don't want that nut case starting WWIII now that life is getting good in China.
 

 

[fishtaco]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/180#post_3304098
 
Really...I thought it was deficit spending....how can imaginary money go into my pocket? My grandchildren...maybe...but not ours.
Darth, I thought any deficit spending is bad or does that only extend till Obama leaves office? You can't just give Bush and the congress both Dems and Reps a pass on this huge waste of lives and money. No way you can justify going to war in Iraq if you are against wasteful spending. Am I more of a fiscal conservative than you? LOL
 
Fishtaco

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishtaco http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/180#post_3304163
Darth, I thought any deficit spending is bad or does that only extend till Obama leaves office? You can't just give Bush and the congress both Dems and Reps a pass on this huge waste of lives and money. No way you can justify going to war in Iraq if you are against wasteful spending. Am I more of a fiscal conservative than you? LOL
 
Fishtaco
If you jabbed a needle in your Bush doll for spending too much you need to jab 3 in the Obama doll at the pace we are on right now.
 
What we have right now isn't working. I think come November you are going to see that a rather shocking portion of the country agrees. I keep going back and forth on whether or not I want to see the Republicans take congress. I fear it would take majorities large enough to over ride vetos to keep Obama in check during a second term and at this point I really don't want to see the Republicans take congress and the white house in 2012.
 

 

[spanko]

Yup both parties over spend. We need to internalize some here, stop spending on these do nothing wars that are going on, get our feet back on the ground, pay off some of this debt but most of all cut taxes to spur some spending in the private sector to get some growth and put folks back to work. the private sector is the only way to get out of what is going on now. Stop bailing companies out, let them fail if that is in the cards, and let the rest absorb and get stronger.

 

[fishtaco]

Man you guys just don't get me, did you notice I added virtually the whole congress that backed Bush? Heck I don't even have a Bush doll, there was much that I did not agree with that he did, which is the same case with Obama, although my gripes are probably different and that is why he is in trouble. I think at this point I am about equally pissed at both parties, which is why I mess around with you guys sometimes hoping you can understand for the most part all politicians are corrupt and just getting conservatives back in office will present at best just a different set of problems and there was a good reason the people of this country voted the conservatives out just a couple years ago.
 
Fishtaco

 

[spanko]

Taco, vote for the best constitutionalists, states rights candidate you can. Then keep voting out the folks that don't adhere. Only way to get out of this, if there is a way to get out.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishtaco http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/180#post_3304183
Man you guys just don't get me, did you notice I added virtually the whole congress that backed Bush? Heck I don't even have a Bush doll, there was much that I did not agree with that he did, which is the same case with Obama, although my gripes are probably different and that is why he is in trouble. I think at this point I am about equally pissed at both parties, which is why I mess around with you guys sometimes hoping you can understand for the most part all politicians are corrupt and just getting conservatives back in office will present at best just a different set of problems and there was a good reason the people of this country voted the conservatives out just a couple years ago.
 
Fishtaco
What was voted out wasnt conservative. I have my issues with both parties too. Neither one is worth a rat fart in a tornado, I just vote for the lesser of two evils and am getting really bored with it. If the Republicans can score solid majorities in the congress I am probably voting 3rd party for prez next time around.