Frustrated... Ugghhh.... Water Tests

black cobra

black cobra

Member
Bought some new test kits yesterday (Salifert) to see why my new corals weren't looking so hot....
Magnesium = 640
Phosphate = 1.0
Alk = 2.8 dKH
Calcium = 340 ppm
Nitrates = 50ppm
Ammonia = 0
Nitrites = 0
PH = 8.2
SG = 1.025
Temp = 79
Do you ever just feel like your just flushing your money away? I wanted a bad ass reef tank and was prepared to spend the coin but its just so incredibly killjoy when you think your on top of the game only to find out your even more screwed then before....
I've already done two water changes this week and Trates will not go down for jack ----!!! I dunno what else to do about this......
I have some Magnesium additive to help bring that up over the next few days.
I also have the Bionic Calcium Buffer to help bring that up as well.
Phosphates I was looking at getting the BRS "DUAL" GFO and Carbon Reactor
to just try and get that under control.
I dunno..... Is it normal to deal with all this crap? Like does everyone have to go thru this so they can become more intelligent about the hobby? Just supper pissed off right now and frustrated. Torch Coral looks horrible. Mushrooms look horrible..... and now I know why my GSP's havent even opened up yet.....
 
keith burn

keith burn

Active Member
I see...
Just slow down and take some time you will get it.
Yes it is normal to deal with this (crap) from time to time,we all have.
Just slow down and take your time with it and go slow.
Juat keep in mind we all have good days and bad.
What is you sys like?
size of tank, do you run a skimmer,what is the flow like?
ask more questions and in time you will get it and have a cool tank and sys.
 
black cobra

black cobra

Member
I have a 72G with a 20 Gallon Sump/Refugium. (2) Hydor Power Head #3's for flow. I have an Aqua C Remora Pro Skimmer. Going into my 6th week now with the tank.
Just reading and looking at peoples tanks on here there gorgeous and it seems like they dont struggle but hats all I seem to be doing anymore. I'm ready to sit back and enjoy and watch it all come together....
 
naclh2o nut

naclh2o nut

Member
The first rule That I have learned since coming back to this hobby is

[hr]


Patience!
we have all and are going through this. If it was as easy as we hoped then we would not be on this site with thousands of questions, and even more opinions!
Check you top off water maybe you are getting trates in it.
I have read were some have had it come in through top off water and somewhere I read that someone had it coming from their salt mix.
So test for it in both source and mixed water before you put it in tank. If that is where it is coming from you can't get rid of it with water changes.
Also what is your set stock list?
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Originally Posted by BLACK COBRA
http:///forum/post/2992087
Bought some new test kits yesterday (Salifert) to see why my new corals weren't looking so hot....
Magnesium = 640
Phosphate = 1.0
Alk = 2.8 dKH
Calcium = 340 ppm
Nitrates = 50ppm
Ammonia = 0
Nitrites = 0
PH = 8.2
SG = 1.025
Temp = 79
Do you ever just feel like your just flushing your money away? I wanted a bad ass reef tank and was prepared to spend the coin but its just so incredibly killjoy when you think your on top of the game only to find out your even more screwed then before....
I've already done two water changes this week and Trates will not go down for jack ----!!! I dunno what else to do about this......
I have some Magnesium additive to help bring that up over the next few days.
I also have the Bionic Calcium Buffer to help bring that up as well.
Phosphates I was looking at getting the BRS "DUAL" GFO and Carbon Reactor
to just try and get that under control.
I dunno..... Is it normal to deal with all this crap? Like does everyone have to go thru this so they can become more intelligent about the hobby? Just supper pissed off right now and frustrated. Torch Coral looks horrible. Mushrooms look horrible..... and now I know why my GSP's havent even opened up yet.....

Originally Posted by BLACK COBRA
http:///forum/post/2992106
I have a 72G with a 20 Gallon Sump/Refugium. (2) Hydor Power Head #3's for flow. I have an Aqua C Remora Pro Skimmer. Going into my 6th week now with the tank.
Just reading and looking at peoples tanks on here there gorgeous and it seems like they dont struggle but hats all I seem to be doing anymore. I'm ready to sit back and enjoy and watch it all come together....

I think the biggest qualifier here is that your tank is only 5 weeks old.(going into the 6th week) Not really had a chance to settle into a routine and mature some. Torch, mushrooms GSP and you haven't listed if you have any fish. Like has been said slow down and take a breath. Don't start going crazy with additives yet to try to balance things out. Your water changes should be able to bring some things back into balance as you don't have anything listed that should be using up your calcium and magnesium.
The very first thing I would do is a 25% water chang with water that is up to the correct Ph-Sg and temperature. Wait a day or two, retest and if things are still not quite correct do another.
An important aspect here, as noted by the others, is to ensure you are using good quality water. On the nitrates more needs to be understood. Do you see them rising? Also do you have any mechanical filtration that needs to be cleaned? (filter pads, filter floss or sponges)
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Here is a list that shows the values of these things in Natural Seawater and the acceptable ranges for your future reference. Remember that whenif you need to adjust these things in the future by dosing something rather that through water changes, it must happen slowly.
Ammonia (NH3-4)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.010 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.050 mg/L
Any ammonia level above 0.05 mg/L is a cause for concern, and the source should be found and corrected.
Nitrite (NO2)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.010 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.100 mg/L
Levels of 0.05 or less are of little concern. If the levels are higher than this, the source should be found and corrected.
Nitrate (NO3)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.050 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 25 mg/L
Nitrate is not toxic in and of itself, but a rising level is indicative of deteriorating water conditions, and any level above 5.0 mg/L in reef aquariums is a reason for concern.
Phosphate (PO4)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.030 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.250 mg/L
The use of a phosphate absorbing resin is recommended to keep phosphate levels below 0.05 mg/L.
Calcium (Ca)
Natural Seawater Value: 400 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 350 to 450 mg/L
Calcium is a critical parameter for coral growth in reef aquariums, and chronically low levels will cause coral mortality and loss of coralline algae and other invertebrate species.
Magnesium (Mg)
Natural Seawater Value: 1280 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 1100 to 1400 mg/L
Magnesium is a very important part of the water buffering system, and is incorporated into coral skeletons. It is also critical to any photosynthetic processes.
Alkalinity (meq/L)
Natural Seawater Value: 2.5 meq/L
Acceptable Range: 2.5 to 5.0 meq/L
Maintaining an appropriate alkalinity is crucial to maintaining a healthy aquarium. A fluctuating alkalinity will lead to serious problems in maintaining an appropriate pH, as well as problems keeping calcium and magnesium levels within required ranges.
 
black cobra

black cobra

Member
I have two False Percula Clowns. They are my only fish. About 3 inches each. I have 2 Serpent Stars as well. And about 20 Hermit Crabs.
About 110lbs. of LR and about 80lbs. of LS.
The only corals I have are Neon Green Mushrooms, Torch Coral, and GSP's.
I use only Distilled water from my LGS.
My Trates were 5ppm last Saturday. Monday they rose to 20ppm and last night they are at 50ppm. I am definitely not overfeeding. I dunno why it keeps rising. I did a 10% water change the past two nights. I will check it out again when I get home from work today. If still high I will do a 25% change this weekend.
 
salt life

salt life

Active Member
I agree with spanko, your tank is fairly new. it needs to mature and build up the bacteria to support what you have in the tank, once it matures, things should balance out.
 
black cobra

black cobra

Member
Originally Posted by Salt Life
http:///forum/post/2992187
I agree with spanko, your tank is fairly new. it needs to mature and build up the bacteria to support what you have in the tank, once it matures, things should balance out.

In the meantime should I not add any more coral or fish? I dont want anything to die. My clowns are actually doing very well. Eating like champs and are very active.
 
salt life

salt life

Active Member
Originally Posted by BLACK COBRA
http:///forum/post/2992189
In the meantime should I not add any more coral or fish? I dont want anything to die. My clowns are actually doing very well. Eating like champs and are very active.
I wouldn't, let all the beneficial bacteria colonize, let the system mature, and once you see things stabalize, start adding again slowly. I wouldn't worry though, IMO it's just because it is a new system.
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Lot's of nutrient in Rod's food fso even then smallest bits that are not eaten and left to "rot" in the tank will have an effect on the nitrates. Check your feeding, They should only get what they can eat in about a minute with Rod's food in my opinion. If they eat everything and you want to give them more just do everything in small amounts.
 
black cobra

black cobra

Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/2992205
Lot's of nutrient in Rod's food fso even then smallest bits that are not eaten and left to "rot" in the tank will have an effect on the nitrates. Check your feeding, They should only get what they can eat in about a minute with Rod's food in my opinion. If they eat everything and you want to give them more just do everything in small amounts.
Yeah they eat there food in about a minute to two minutes. Because of all the nutrients would you suggest maybe switching to a different food source because its spiking the nitrates so hard?
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Well variety is a good thing. I would not stop feeding the Rod's food, just make sure it is getting eaten and not falling to the bottom of the tank or into the rocks. Don't get me wrong I am not saying that this is the nitrate problem just that it can be.
 
black cobra

black cobra

Member
So I made some progress this weekend. Went to my LFS and picked up a sweet Phos Reactor made by Next Reef. Filled it with some stuff called ROWAphos and within 1 night my phosphates are now ZERO

I also finished my DIY sump/refugium I was working on. Filled it with some Chaeto, Mineral Mud, and some LR. My Trates went down to 20ppm.
Still having a tough time though with rasing my Calcium and Magnesium. I have been doing the daily dosing and it's not really coming up much. Calcium still like around 360 and Magnesium around 650......
I am using Liquid form of each. Is that maybe why? I am using the max daily dosages 10mL for every 20 Gallons for the Mag.
5mL for every 50 Gallons for the Cal.
 
stanlalee

stanlalee

Active Member

Originally Posted by BLACK COBRA
http:///forum/post/2996399
So I made some progress this weekend. Went to my LFS and picked up a sweet Phos Reactor made by Next Reef. Filled it with some stuff called ROWAphos and within 1 night my phosphates are now ZERO

I also finished my DIY sump/refugium I was working on. Filled it with some Chaeto, Mineral Mud, and some LR. My Trates went down to 20ppm.
Still having a tough time though with rasing my Calcium and Magnesium. I have been doing the daily dosing and it's not really coming up much. Calcium still like around 360 and Magnesium around 650......
I am using Liquid form of each. Is that maybe why? I am using the max daily dosages 10mL for every 20 Gallons for the Mag.
5mL for every 50 Gallons for the Cal.

your nitrates are rising because its just 5 weeks in and they didn't have time to climb before now. If you are using the same salt you started with water changes will help with lowering nitrates (cheato/fuge didn't lower nitrates overnight, cheato utilizes nitrates with growth and mud and rock have to build anaerobic bacteria in low oxygen areas neither which happens overnight. most likely the result of water changes you did before) but they wont help with your parameters. what ever salt your using is deficient in just about everything. what product are you using for mg? what ever it is it will be next year before you get it up using the instructions. I raised mg 100ppm a day using the calculator http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chemcalc.html and it takes a TON of it (kent tech M in my case) to raise it. you can do 50ppm a day if your not comfortable with 100ppm which is about all you want to do per 24hrs (there is a better approach farther down). You need to get that up before you get the calcium up but the alk needs addressing FIRST. WAY low. I like mine at 8dKH but you should never target below 7dKH much less 2.8dKH (are you sure its not 2.8meq/l which would be normal). Be careful with the GFO, I too brought my phosphates to zero overnight with a half container of GFO and bleached my monti cap overnight as well. Dont use more than the instructions suggest, perhaps less. all I use is two teaspoons on my 30g/10g sump and just in a media bag.
the phosphates and nitrates are just part of what happens with a 6wk old tank with fish and corals. the other parameters can only be that bad due lack luster salt batch. I've seen salts with batches of grossly low mg (seachem), grossly low calcium (reef crystals) and grossly low in alk (oceanic) but NEVER one with alk, calcium AND mg that low. you dont have enough stock to utilize any of it in 6wks. Because all your parameters are off a better approach than dosing would be getting a salt non deficient in ca,mg and alk and doing a 75-100% water change or successive 50% water changes daily for a few days. your going to have to dose a TON of mg (buy the 64oz bottle) and alk. calcium really isn't that bad, regular dosing would bring it up. your alk is critical unless you meant 2.8 meq/l in which case its perfect (I would find it almost impossible for a salt to be that defficient).
 
black cobra

black cobra

Member
Originally Posted by Stanlalee
http:///forum/post/2996504
your nitrates are rising because its just 5 weeks in and they didn't have time to climb before now. If you are using the same salt you started with water changes will help with lowering nitrates (cheato/fuge didn't lower nitrates overnight, cheato utilizes nitrates with growth and mud and rock have to build anaerobic bacteria in low oxygen areas neither which happens overnight. most likely the result of water changes you did before) but they wont help with your parameters. what ever salt your using is deficient in just about everything. what product are you using for mg? what ever it is it will be next year before you get it up using the instructions. I raised mg 100ppm a day using the calculator http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chemcalc.html and it takes a TON of it (kent tech M in my case) to raise it. you can do 50ppm a day if your not comfortable with 100ppm which is about all you want to do per 24hrs (there is a better approach farther down). You need to get that up before you get the calcium up but the alk needs addressing FIRST. WAY low. I like mine at 8dKH but you should never target below 7dKH much less 2.8dKH (are you sure its not 2.8meq/l which would be normal). Be careful with the GFO, I too brought my phosphates to zero overnight with a half container of GFO and bleached my monti cap overnight as well. Dont use more than the instructions suggest, perhaps less. all I use is two teaspoons on my 30g/10g sump and just in a media bag.
the phosphates and nitrates are just part of what happens with a 6wk old tank with fish and corals. the other parameters can only be that bad due lack luster salt batch. I've seen salts with batches of grossly low mg (seachem), grossly low calcium (reef crystals) and grossly low in alk (oceanic) but NEVER one with alk, calcium AND mg that low. you dont have enough stock to utilize any of it in 6wks. Because all your parameters are off a better approach than dosing would be getting a salt non deficient in ca,mg and alk and doing a 75-100% water change or successive 50% water changes daily for a few days. your going to have to dose a TON of mg (buy the 64oz bottle) and alk. calcium really isn't that bad, regular dosing would bring it up. your alk is critical unless you meant 2.8 meq/l in which case its perfect (I would find it almost impossible for a salt to be that defficient).

Thanks for the information Stan
I have been doing water changes just about everyday since the original post. Yeah I messed p o the Alk.... It is 2.8 meq/l
I have been using Brightwell Aquatics Liquid Magnesium Supplement. I was thinking about adding more but was cautious. Thanks for the calculator!!
 
black cobra

black cobra

Member
That Calculator is telling me I need to dose 800 ml a day to bring it up just 100 ppm at a time.
Currently = 660
Is that for real? That can't be true.....
 
stanlalee

stanlalee

Active Member
Originally Posted by BLACK COBRA
http:///forum/post/2996592
That Calculator is telling me I need to dose 800 ml a day to bring it up just 100 ppm at a time.
Currently = 660
Is that for real? That can't be true.....
I wasn't aware they had brightwell on the calculator. for kent tech M I needed 160ml per day to raise it 100ppm on my 30g, 800ml seems high (watered down product). if the product isn't on the calculator you cant use the calculator as they all have different concentrations. Like I said though if your uncomfortable the large water change(s) with a better salt will do the same.
 
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