Fully cycled empty 80

[kimkromann]

I have a fully cycled, empty 80 with live sand, live rock, wet dry filter with protein skimmer, dual compac lighting with actinic. I am looking to start an aggressive tank, but doing it slowly as I want to do it right. I am trying to build a list of fish to start adding and need to know which fish will be good together and which order to add them. The must haves, well atleast on the top of my list are a porcupine puffer, lion fish, clown trigger, and some sort of eel that won't get too big, but is colorful. If size makes a difference at the time I get them, please note that too. Anyone have suggestions?
Thanks,
KIM

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by kimkromann
I have a fully cycled, empty 80 with live sand, live rock, wet dry filter with protein skimmer, dual compac lighting with actinic. I am looking to start an aggressive tank, but doing it slowly as I want to do it right. I am trying to build a list of fish to start adding and need to know which fish will be good together and which order to add them. The must haves, well atleast on the top of my list are a porcupine puffer, lion fish, clown trigger, and some sort of eel that won't get too big, but is colorful. If size makes a difference at the time I get them, please note that too. Anyone have suggestions?
Thanks,
KIM
IMO, when your "must haves" are grown; you'll be at the limit an 80 gal will handle. Check how big these fish get. Lions can do OK with puffers and triggers; but I sure wouldn't put a clown trigger with any lion. Lions are not aggressive, they hunt & will defend themselves; but they are slow and their fins often a target for triggers, and a clown can be Extremely aggressive. I'm sure you'll hear from people who have had good experiences; but I just don't trust the more aggressive triggers with lions and have had to move one of them on several occasions. Puffers can get after them too.

 

[babyb]

imo lion fish dp not do ok with puffers and triggers, trust me ... i tried it and the puffer skinned the lion and ate all his fins, it was a horable ordeal and very dissheartening, i would not recomend it

 

[kimkromann]

It is looking like a lion fish is out of the question with this tank. So my newly revised list is a porcupine puffer, clown trigger, eel (not sure which type) and what else???? Any recomendations out there?

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by kimkromann
It is looking like a lion fish is out of the question with this tank. So my newly revised list is a porcupine puffer, clown trigger, eel (not sure which type) and what else???? Any recomendations out there?
Maybe another trigger. The clown trigger is a fantastic fish; but can go from nice guy to monster overnight-- and also makes the list of tank mates a pretty small one. Both the puffer & trigger will grow very fast and get very big.

 

[kimkromann]

Thanks. Do you think I could have an eel in here too? One that doesn't get too big, but is colorful?

 

[dstoneburg]

I was in the same position as you a few months ago. I switched my 90g to a reef because theres very little fish to keep in a 90g FOWL. All triggers and a porp puffer will quickly outgrow a 90g and cannot be properly housed long-term in one. Do remember this is a hobby about taking care of pets and not purly your own desires.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by dstoneburg
I was in the same position as you a few months ago. I switched my 90g to a reef because theres very little fish to keep in a 90g FOWL. All triggers and a porp puffer will quickly outgrow a 90g and cannot be properly housed long-term in one. Do remember this is a hobby about taking care of pets and not purly your own desires.
IMO, you can keep a trigger or 2; but a grown Porc Puffer,in a 90 gallon tank. If you do the best you can for them, you have no reason to go on a guilt trip; just because they might do better in a bigger tank. What fish wouldn't do better in a bigger tank? I won't even get into tangs; but, IMO, you should be ok. Sorry, I believe in doing the best I can for my fish, and I'll get stoned to death for this; but I hardly put my fish into the same "pet" category as I do my dogs. If that were the case, the Humane Society and the ASPCA would shut down *****. (Research the number of fish lost during collection, holding, transportation, and acclimation. All of a sudden, a trigger in a 90 gal tank seems pretty lucky and is likely to live a longer life than his counterpart on the reef, lots of predators out there.)

 

[kimkromann]

I agree. No guilt trips. If I wasn't a concerned fish owner, I wouldn't be taking time to research this, ask questions, etc. I have owned this tank for 6 months and have not bought any fish as I want to be careful with what I put into my tank. I have another 80 that is a reef and that took me more than a year to make the choices I have in there. Not only for the fishes sake, but I don't want to spend good money on something that is just going to die because I didn't take care of it properly. Anyways, My list is a clown trigger, porcupine puffer, some sort of eel. Any suggestions on the eel? What type of filtration will I need with this bio load? I would imagine that I would need a protein skimmer. I have a wet dry with live rock currently. Do I need to add a skimmer before getting these fish?
Thanks for all of your suggestions.
KIM

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by kimkromann
I agree. No guilt trips. If I wasn't a concerned fish owner, I wouldn't be taking time to research this, ask questions, etc. I have owned this tank for 6 months and have not bought any fish as I want to be careful with what I put into my tank. I have another 80 that is a reef and that took me more than a year to make the choices I have in there. Not only for the fishes sake, but I don't want to spend good money on something that is just going to die because I didn't take care of it properly. Anyways, My list is a clown trigger, porcupine puffer, some sort of eel. Any suggestions on the eel? What type of filtration will I need with this bio load? I would imagine that I would need a protein skimmer. I have a wet dry with live rock currently. Do I need to add a skimmer before getting these fish?
Thanks for all of your suggestions.
KIM
IMO; a skimmer is optional in lightly stocked FOWLR tanks; But I think you'll have a much better chance of success with a skimmer, because you'll be pushing the bio-load to the max. Porc puffers get huge, you might consider a smaller type puffer- but porcs have a lot of appeal. No opinion on the eels; I've never had one. I know you didn't ask; but if looking at skimmers, I love Aqua-C. If you need a HOT model, their Remora Pro should serve you well, an outstanding, easy to use product, IMO.

 

[kimkromann]

Thanks. I will be adding a protein skimmer shortly. I will buy all fish that I get at their smallest so that I can see them grow. One fish at a time. Is there any order to adding them to the tank? I have heard that puffers are territorial so should be added last. I know that the porcupines get big, but I do want to get one. They are the main reason I have gotten into saltwater. I have loved these little guys for 20 years and promised I would have one someday. So that is my main fish. I am also thinking of a naso tang (sp?)
My current list (under revisement with suggestions)
Porcupine puffer
Clown Trigger
Naso Tang
Wrasse
small eel??
Any order for an aggressive tank? Also, what does FOWLR mean?
Thanks,
KIM

 

[dstoneburg]

Originally Posted by srfisher17
IMO, you can keep a trigger or 2; but a grown Porc Puffer,in a 90 gallon tank. If you do the best you can for them, you have no reason to go on a guilt trip; just because they might do better in a bigger tank. What fish wouldn't do better in a bigger tank? I won't even get into tangs; but, IMO, you should be ok. Sorry, I believe in doing the best I can for my fish, and I'll get stoned to death for this; but I hardly put my fish into the same "pet" category as I do my dogs. If that were the case, the Humane Society and the ASPCA would shut down *****. (Research the number of fish lost during collection, holding, transportation, and acclimation. All of a sudden, a trigger in a 90 gal tank seems pretty lucky and is likely to live a longer life than his counterpart on the reef, lots of predators out there.)

I dont mean to start an arguement or anything, but I really do feel the need to reply to this. If your considering buying fish and giving them less then reccomended accomadations, you are doing a few things. One you are short changing a living animal that puts its life into your hands by no choice of its own. they deserves atleast the suggested tank sizes that are accepted by most hobbiest(And those are on the conservative side to be honest). Your side of things as you put it is that because many fish are lost in transportation or at *****, putting a fish in a less then adequate envoirment is acceptable. We are in the "business" of responsibly fish keeping, and the idea is to provide these fish with the best means possile. And if that means you have to choose smaller fish(Possibly less exotic) because thats all you can accomadate, then you should do so. I dont think anyone can argue either a clown or porc puffer can live a long and fulfilles life in a 90g. If you have concrete plans of upgrading when they outgrow, then I do think you are being responsible. Please do remember, these specifications are provided by people trying to sell you the fish. I think I can safely say most hobbiest think these are no doubt on the small end of the spectrum.
What if the best I can do for a naso is a 30g? I mean thats bigger then what ***** keeps them in!
And just for fun, some stats.
Clownfish
Minimum Tank Size: 125 gallons
Care Level: Easy
Tank Conditions: 72-78°F; sg 1.020-1.025; pH 8.1-8.4; dKH 8-12
Max. Size In Aquarium: Up to 1' 8"
Color Form: Black, Bright Blue, Bright Green, Orange, White, Yellow
Temperament: Aggressive
Diet: Carnivore
Compatibility: View Chart
Origin: Coral Sea, Christmas Island, Indo-Pacific
Family: Balistidae
Naso Tang
Minimum Tank Size: 125 gallons
Care Level: Moderate
Tank Conditions: 72-78°F; sg 1.020-1.025; pH 8.1-8.4; dKH 8-12
Max. Size In Aquarium: Up to 1' 6"
Color Form: Bright Yellow, Orange, Yellow, Blue, Gray, Red
Temperament: Peaceful
Reef Compatible: Yes
Diet: Herbivore
Compatibility: View Chart
Origin: Hawaii
Family: Acanthuridae

 

[dstoneburg]

Originally Posted by kimkromann
I agree. No guilt trips. If I wasn't a concerned fish owner, I wouldn't be taking time to research this, ask questions, etc. I have owned this tank for 6 months and have not bought any fish as I want to be careful with what I put into my tank. I have another 80 that is a reef and that took me more than a year to make the choices I have in there. Not only for the fishes sake, but I don't want to spend good money on something that is just going to die because I didn't take care of it properly. Anyways, My list is a clown trigger, porcupine puffer, some sort of eel. Any suggestions on the eel? What type of filtration will I need with this bio load? I would imagine that I would need a protein skimmer. I have a wet dry with live rock currently. Do I need to add a skimmer before getting these fish?
Thanks for all of your suggestions.
KIM
Research does/will/and has shown that these guys are too big for a tank that small unless you have plans of upgrading in the future, and solid plans at that. Also if someone more experienced thinks I am out of line(In regards to providing accurate information) let me know, as im only stating what ive been told and researched. From my experience if you cannot properly take care of a fish, then dont get him, leave him at the store for someone who can.
Please take the time to look at these, and learn from the mistake I was about to make.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/287799/stock-list-help-please
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/287237/stocklist-for-a-80g-bowfront

 

[dstoneburg]

Originally Posted by kimkromann
Thanks. I will be adding a protein skimmer shortly. I will buy all fish that I get at their smallest so that I can see them grow. One fish at a time. Is there any order to adding them to the tank? I have heard that puffers are territorial so should be added last. I know that the porcupines get big, but I do want to get one. They are the main reason I have gotten into saltwater. I have loved these little guys for 20 years and promised I would have one someday. So that is my main fish. I am also thinking of a naso tang (sp?)
My current list (under revisement with suggestions)
Porcupine puffer
Clown Trigger
Naso Tang
Wrasse
small eel??
Any order for an aggressive tank? Also, what does FOWLR mean?
Thanks,
KIM

Check these out for alternatives..
Porcupine puffer ( Saddle puffer, or any dwarf puffer )
Clown Trigger ( HumaHuma/Picasso)
Naso Tang ( Whitecheek Tang )
Wrasse ( Lyretail Wrasse )
small eel??

 

[kimkromann]

Point well taken. I am constantly upgrading and improving my systems for the fish I do have in my 80 reef. I would not put fully grown in this tank. I am looking to have a large wall built in within the next year. Maybe I will wait til then or get a baby porcupine puffer for now. I am one of the more resonsible animal owners, always buy the expensive foods, vet visits etc. I am not the one who wrote about *****. I wouldn't shop there if my life depended upon it or petsmart for that matter. But I also don't believe in guilt trips as it seems that most people on this board are trying to do a good job of fish husbandry or they would not be on this board. Though there is always room for improvement. Your point will be considered when making my final choices.

 

[redman1221]

Originally Posted by kimkromann
Thanks. Do you think I could have an eel in here too? One that doesn't get too big, but is colorful?
You can do a snowflake eel or a golden tail eel

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by dstoneburg
I dont mean to start an arguement or anything, but I really do feel the need to reply to this. If your considering buying fish and giving them less then reccomended accomadations, you are doing a few things. One you are short changing a living animal that puts its life into your hands by no choice of its own. they deserves atleast the suggested tank sizes that are accepted by most hobbiest(And those are on the conservative side to be honest). Your side of things as you put it is that because many fish are lost in transportation or at *****, putting a fish in a less then adequate envoirment is acceptable. We are in the "business" of responsibly fish keeping, and the idea is to provide these fish with the best means possile. And if that means you have to choose smaller fish(Possibly less exotic) because thats all you can accomadate, then you should do so. I dont think anyone can argue either a clown or porc puffer can live a long and fulfilles life in a 90g. If you have concrete plans of upgrading when they outgrow, then I do think you are being responsible. Please do remember, these specifications are provided by people trying to sell you the fish. I think I can safely say most hobbiest think these are no doubt on the small end of the spectrum.
What if the best I can do for a naso is a 30g? I mean thats bigger then what ***** keeps them in!
And just for fun, some stats
I really do basically agree with your position; I would not advise a beginner to keep a Clown T in a 90. But; because this is a forum, I'm not going to tell an experienced aquarist that they CAN'T do it. You state your arguments very well; but I take recommendations (Sorry for deleting the rest of your post, but folks can see them above) as just that recommendations. Not rules set in stone. We've both been around long enough to know that when we say "You can't do that!"; the next post will be from someone who has. I guess, on the morality of all this, what's the difference between the triggerfish, and the tuna sandwich I'm eating now? I put this rather crudely, I do the best I can for my fish, will break a "rule" now and then, but have a very good success rate. But, if I lose a fish, I'll try to figure out why and get over it. Sorry, to me (And I respect the opposite view) a fish is nowhere near the "pet" that my family dogs are. I am now prepared for the public stoning.

 

[kimkromann]

You have both touched on a very sensitive subject. I think our society went from being inhumane to animals to being so "PC" that we have forgotten what role animals play. I think we have gone from treating them poorly to treating them better than humans. Don't get me wrong, i do believe we have a duty to give our animals, including fish, the best care we can. But we need to remember that they are fish and do not have the same needs as humans, or even dogs for that matter. Try snuggling with your lion fish and see if I am right?

I do appreciate all the suggestions. They are food for thought.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by kimkromann
You have both touched on a very sensitive subject. I think our society went from being inhumane to animals to being so "PC" that we have forgotten what role animals play. I think we have gone from treating them poorly to treating them better than humans. Don't get me wrong, i do believe we have a duty to give our animals, including fish, the best care we can. But we need to remember that they are fish and do not have the same needs as humans, or even dogs for that matter. Try snuggling with your lion fish and see if I am right?

I do appreciate all the suggestions. They are food for thought.
Well put! I'll continue to respect other people's views (Most of them, anyway); as long as they respect mine. You're dead right on the PC point; it's a shame that a news article about someone abusing a cat will generate twice the outrage as a similar article about a child being abused. (This opinion is from a newspaper Editor and reflects the "Letters to the Editor").

 

[dstoneburg]

Why are your fish not in the same category as your dog? I mean they are very different pets but both should be held in the same regard. While you cannot cuddle with a lionfish, I highly doubt your dog has the ability to breathe under water? Or a natural defense such as poisen? Or have the beauty of a remarkable animal that lives under water? While they are very different animals, they are both "great" in their own ways, as they should be treated the same.