FYI: Electricity questions answered!
- Thread starter pfitz44
- Start date
rockies
Member
I tried a GFCI module (high quality unit from home depot - one plug into the wall and 3 for plugging in equipment).
I plugged in a sole power strip with an embedded timer (4 outlets switchable and 4 on the timer). Whenever the timer would engage (to turn on or off the lights), the GFCI would trip and the entire system would then shutdown.
Any suggestions on what can be done to safely and cheaply resolve this issue?
I plugged in a sole power strip with an embedded timer (4 outlets switchable and 4 on the timer). Whenever the timer would engage (to turn on or off the lights), the GFCI would trip and the entire system would then shutdown.
Any suggestions on what can be done to safely and cheaply resolve this issue?
agent707
Member
I take it you're running MH? I wouldn't recommend running your lights through a GFCI circuit as the GFCI is very sensitive to current imbalances, like switching on "high powered" lights. When MH kicks on, that's quite a power surge.
It's better use for the items that run constantly that are directly connected to your water like powerheads, pumps and heaters. Heaters don't have near the power surge MH does when they kick on, so it's not likely to trip the GFCI.
Instead of converting your whole outlet to GFCI, you can use a GFCI inline plug, similar to this. This way, you can run your lights through your normal circuit and your other gear through your GFCI.
Hope that helps.
It's better use for the items that run constantly that are directly connected to your water like powerheads, pumps and heaters. Heaters don't have near the power surge MH does when they kick on, so it's not likely to trip the GFCI.
Instead of converting your whole outlet to GFCI, you can use a GFCI inline plug, similar to this. This way, you can run your lights through your normal circuit and your other gear through your GFCI.
Hope that helps.
saltn00b
Active Member
i was going to install GFCI, but i found a potentially huge downfall. as agent707 implied, the GFCI's can trip with drastic changes in current. the fact is that not only is this true, but they may trip for absolutely no reason at all. what happens if everything is connected to one of these outlets, and then trips shortly after you go to bed? then maybe you didnt closely check things the next day, how many hours will the tank go with no power, before you catch it? all for no good reason, and it might happen again 15 minutes after resetting it. in the Home Depot self-help 123 book, it mentions that the GFCI's should never be used for anything that needs to be consistantly plugged in and on.
pfitz44
Active Member
But if there is a good grounding device in the water, and no gfci, then your fish will suffer. Its as plain and simple as that. If you would like to disagree, grab the hot wire with one hand, and the ground with the other. stay like that for the rest of your life. Bet it will be a short one
moneyman
Member
Originally Posted by Rockies
I plugged in a sole power strip with an embedded timer (4 outlets switchable and 4 on the timer). Whenever the timer would engage (to turn on or off the lights), the GFCI would trip and the entire system would then shutdown.
Your GFCI tripped because your powerstrip tried to suppress the voltage. It does this by running the extra power to ground. Get a cheap powerstrip and doesn't regulate the voltage. Or, get a good surge protector that holds onto the extra voltage, releasing it slowly on the hot line.
Originally Posted by saltn00b
in the Home Depot self-help 123 book, it mentions that the GFCI's should never be used for anything that needs to be consistantly plugged in and on.
You have 2 choices: Home Depot self-help 123 book or the NEC code book. The National Electric Code (NEC) requires GFCIs in any location where it might be wet, damp or where the user could be in direct contact with the earth.
Originally Posted by Agent707
I agree. All that's really needed to protect the fish is a good grounding device in the water.
No doubt. A good grounding will protect your fish, during normal mode. When hot wire is in contact with the water, your fish might not like it. GFCI is an insurance for your fish and you.
I plugged in a sole power strip with an embedded timer (4 outlets switchable and 4 on the timer). Whenever the timer would engage (to turn on or off the lights), the GFCI would trip and the entire system would then shutdown.
Your GFCI tripped because your powerstrip tried to suppress the voltage. It does this by running the extra power to ground. Get a cheap powerstrip and doesn't regulate the voltage. Or, get a good surge protector that holds onto the extra voltage, releasing it slowly on the hot line.
Originally Posted by saltn00b
in the Home Depot self-help 123 book, it mentions that the GFCI's should never be used for anything that needs to be consistantly plugged in and on.
You have 2 choices: Home Depot self-help 123 book or the NEC code book. The National Electric Code (NEC) requires GFCIs in any location where it might be wet, damp or where the user could be in direct contact with the earth.
Originally Posted by Agent707
I agree. All that's really needed to protect the fish is a good grounding device in the water.
No doubt. A good grounding will protect your fish, during normal mode. When hot wire is in contact with the water, your fish might not like it. GFCI is an insurance for your fish and you.
saltyreef7
Member
I would think with no grounding probe and you had faulty equipment with no G.F.I nothing would happen because the current in the water has no place to go....Anotherwards: No path to ground. However the water would have a voltage potential, so if you stuck your hand in the water and you were grounded you would get zapped because now the current has a path, unless you maybe had rubber gym shoes on. however the fish in the tank would not no any differant, kinda like a bird sitting on uninsulated high voltage power line they dont get zapped because the are not grounded. I agree with pfitz44 it is useless to install a g.f.i without a probe because if something turns hot it will not trip the g.f.i. Also you can buy G.f.i's on a small 3 foot cord, like an extenson cord then for all you non electricians you just plug it in the wall, and then plug in the compenents you want to g.f.i protect. Lastly remember if you do have a ground probe and NO G.F.I and something goes wrong you may then electrocute and kill all your fish and hopefully trip your circuit breaker or blow a fuse. I hope I did not confuse everyone... but this is a confusing topic with many electrical theroies that could apply... Thanks....
wattsupdoc
Active Member
Stray current shmah currents.. its alotta hhopla...salty reef7's gotit right. NOTHING will happen. The ground probe hmmm. I believe if you have a ground probe and you have a fault then something called electrolosis can occur in the tank, might be bad for any lr you might have, as this is the process used to electroplate metals.. Fish would fell this however it probably wouldnt fry em so to speak. but might kill em over a period of time. Ground fault Interupter would do good to protect this but might leave your system down for a while. Why not TURN OFF the power strip before you put your hand in the TANK? Just a thought..and not install the GFI or the ground probe. I think that would be the better alternative. NEC section of GFI's does not apply to aquariums. :thinking:
sidd
Member
you would get zapped because now the current has a path, unless you maybe had rubber gym shoes on. however the fish in the tank would not no any differant, kinda like a bird sitting on uninsulated high voltage power line they dont get zapped
Not an expert, but I don't think the rubber on your shoes is good enough to protect you in any situation from electrocution.
Not an expert, but I don't think the rubber on your shoes is good enough to protect you in any situation from electrocution.
sly
Active Member
I can see using a gfci outlet but I would never use a grounding rod. Stick your tongue to the positive or negative post of a car battery. You will not get shocked... but if you could stick you tongue to both (dang that's a long tongue) then you would get quite a jolt. Voltage is only an issue when it's compaired to something else. If you have an object that is charged to a million volts, it only matters when it comes in contact with something else that is a million volts of potential different... Voltage is always relative. It does not matter unless you complete a circuit. Ground rods complete the circuit and therefore pose a danger to the fish by channeling electricity through their bodies.
Why is a car one of the safest places to be in the event of a lightning storm? It's because they are not grounded. Electricity will not flow easily through rubber tires.
Why do we use lightning rods on houses? Because wood and wet brick WILL conduct electricity when the differential is in the millions of volts, much more so that the rubber on our car tires. Then this current will cause the wood to burst into flames and burn the house down. We use lightning rods BECAUSE houses conduct electricity. We would rather a steel rod conduct the electricity than our house.
However a fish tank in a glass aquarium is MUCH more insulated from electicity than is a house and at the same time, the voltage, even at its worst, is much lower than lightning. Our fish will not feel the flow of current until we do something horrible like add a grounding rod to our tanks...
Why is a car one of the safest places to be in the event of a lightning storm? It's because they are not grounded. Electricity will not flow easily through rubber tires.
Why do we use lightning rods on houses? Because wood and wet brick WILL conduct electricity when the differential is in the millions of volts, much more so that the rubber on our car tires. Then this current will cause the wood to burst into flames and burn the house down. We use lightning rods BECAUSE houses conduct electricity. We would rather a steel rod conduct the electricity than our house.
However a fish tank in a glass aquarium is MUCH more insulated from electicity than is a house and at the same time, the voltage, even at its worst, is much lower than lightning. Our fish will not feel the flow of current until we do something horrible like add a grounding rod to our tanks...
breckco.ky
Member
Wanted to keep this going.....still debating on using a grounding probe....
pfitz44
Active Member
Originally Posted by BreckCo.KY
Wanted to keep this going.....still debating on using a grounding probe....
If you have a GFCI, then its not a big deal to add one. If you dont, then do not add one. The only thing you have to be careful of when you add the grounding probe is to make sure the plug hasnt tripped
Wanted to keep this going.....still debating on using a grounding probe....
If you have a GFCI, then its not a big deal to add one. If you dont, then do not add one. The only thing you have to be careful of when you add the grounding probe is to make sure the plug hasnt tripped
P
phishface
Guest
i agree with sly. i used to work for a vending company, the bartender called and said the cigarette machine was shocking people. i measured the machine, found zero, plugged in, 3 prong outlet(grounded)... i said to the guy, you sure? i got nothin'.....he says, yeah, when they're on the pay phone and lean on the cigarette machine they get shocked..... i said call the phone company!!!