Garlic

[pauloesco]

I was reading the Wiki, which says Don't Use Processed. Why?
Also, the second sentence says tht it's use is anecdotal at best -- which is true -- and so why does everyone say garlic at the first sign of any disease?
And then, do you use it?
Regularly? Or only when you see something?
Do you use it alone or in conjunction with other treatments?
In your reef, FOWLR, or Quarantine tank?

 

[btldreef]

Quote:
Originally Posted by PauloEsco http:///forum/thread/381469/garlic#post_3323122
I was reading the Wiki, which says Don't Use Processed. Why? Processed is garbage. Just think, even for your, processed chicken or a chicken breast, which are you eating?
The problem with processed is you have no idea what it has been "processed" with, and since there are many things that harm our little fishies, it's not worth the risk.
Also, the second sentence says tht it's use is anecdotal at best -- which is true -- and so why does everyone say garlic at the first sign of any disease? Many people believe that garlic will entice a sick or finicky fish to eat. Some also believe that it contains vitamins (specifically Vitamin C) which can benefit their immune system. The issue is that some fish need more vitamins than others. I have personally witnessed the use of garlic entice many sick or picky fish to eat. If they eat, they're likely to be more healthy and better able to fight off disease/infection.
And then, do you use it? Yes, I do. Not all the time, but I'd say with confidence that I at least soak food twice a week in fresh garlic. Also, all of my seaweed and algae sheets for my tangs are pretreated with garlic.
Regularly? Or only when you see something? See above. IF I see something, I use it every day.
Do you use it alone or in conjunction with other treatments? I also soak in vitamins.
In your reef, FOWLR, or Quarantine tank? All - my fish are all fed the same because I do change which tank their in a lot.

 

[florida joe]

Garlic is A broad spectrum anti-biotic is a
Anti-fungal,
Anti-bacterial and
Highly Anti-parasitical
can the op post the info on not using processed garlic made for the marine trade

 

[spanko]

Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/381469/garlic#post_3323178
Garlic is A broad spectrum anti-biotic is a
Anti-fungal,
Anti-bacterial and
Highly Anti-parasitical
Correct me if I am wrong her Joe, but isn't the anti-(inset phrase here) property of garlic contained in the compound Allicin when a clove is actually crushed, and doesn't the effectiveness of Alison dissipate quickly after it is exposed to air?
Oh yeah, but garlic is still a great flavor enhancer to get fish to eat.
Corrected the spelling of Allicin.

 

[meowzer]

AND it is OHHHH SOOO good in my food too

Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///forum/thread/381469/garlic#post_3323181
Oh yeah, but garlic is still a great flavor enhancer to get fish to eat.

 

[beth]

Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///forum/thread/381469/garlic#post_3323181
Correct me if I am wrong her Joe, but isn't the anti-(inset phrase here) property of garlic contained in the compound Allicin when a clove is actually crushed, and doesn't the effectiveness of Alison dissipate quickly after it is exposed to air?
Oh yeah, but garlic is still a great flavor enhancer to get fish to eat.
Corrected the spelling of Allicin.
Exactly right. If it is effective at all, fresh garlic must be crushed and quickly used if it is being used to treat a disease.

 

[florida joe]

Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///forum/thread/381469/garlic#post_3323181
Correct me if I am wrong her Joe, but isn't the anti-(inset phrase here) property of garlic contained in the compound Allicin when a clove is actually crushed, and doesn't the effectiveness of Alison dissipate quickly after it is exposed to air?
Oh yeah, but garlic is still a great flavor enhancer to get fish to eat.
Corrected the spelling of Allicin.
you are correct sir but are we talking about someone crushing their own garlic and saving it or are we talking about a product that was dry cured and bottled for the use in the hobby

 

[spanko]

Would there be a difference in the content of Allicin either way? I think not and this is part of the anecdotal references made by those that think garlic to be a cure for certain parasites in the hobby.

 

[pauloesco]

I think anecdotal and allegedly contains antibiotic properties are probablythe key words. Unless someone's got a study or paper?
I'm more inclined not to feed my marine animals terrestrial foods of any sort-- even romaine can cause digestive track blockages. If my boys are sick, I copper them, no fooling around with fresh garlic and it's tough cellulose - processed by me or Brightwell Aquatics and their dubious "marine scientists ".

 

[btldreef]

Copper is an absolute last resort for me. Thankfully, I have never had to go that route.

 

[aquaknight]

Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///forum/thread/381469/garlic#post_3323325
Would there be a difference in the content of Allicin either way?
There isn't. Even with "fresh" garlic someone just purchased, is likely not to produce sufficient Allicin. A live garlic plant/bulb/(Allium sativum)/whatever you want to call it, naturally produces Allicin to help fight off insects and microorganisms. This part is purely personal hypothesis on my part, but a "fresh" garlic bulb, has likely produced all the Allicin it ever will, trying to repair itself/fight off that commercial harvester, that just rip it to shreds, making a suitable appearance for public purchase. The rest of this post isn't hypothesis....
Either way, Allicin is extremely unstable and will never reach your fish. Allicin quickly turns into various other sulfur compounds (Allicin itself is a sulfur-based compound). Pure Allicin is not even available commercially for purchase due to it's instability (for things like medication, Diallyl trisulfade is produced chemically, and has similar properties to Allicin). But if you go with the argument that you were able to get Allicin by crushing some garlic, the harshness of a marine environment will likely play havoc on Allicin, however that's not even the main argument, which is mathematics, by way of dilution. Due to Allicin's instability, you can't let the fish's food soak in the garlic juice for an appropriate amount of time, and by the time the fish eats said food, the tank water would have diluted any of the Allicin anyway.
The final nail in the coffin for garlic, is that Allicin is not.bioavailable. Meaning that Allicin will never enter the fish's bloodstream, and will never reach those parasites attached to the fish.
Now having said all that, there is no way anyone can refute the evidence that in fact garlic, to some fish, is an appetite stimulant. And a fish that is eating more food, that happens to contain some garlic juice, is probably going to be a healthier fish then it was. I can say I've had some fish, various Butterflyfish, some dwarf angels, and my Lei trigger, that were equally turned off by adding garlic to their food.

 

[aquaknight]

Quote:
Originally Posted by PauloEsco http:///forum/thread/381469/garlic#post_3323403
If my boys are sick, I copper them....
A merely "sick" fish does not automatically constitute a copper treatment. There are a number of diseases/health issues that copper does nothing for, if only to make the problem(s) worse.
If you are treating Cryptocaryon irritans (Marine Ich, aka Ich, aka Ick), then great, copper away.... (If you're gonna use Cupramine. Other copper treatments are quite dangerous and lethal if misused. I would strongly encourage to only use Cupramine, which is generally very safe)

 

[florida joe]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaKnight http:///forum/thread/381469/garlic#post_3323417
There isn't. Even with "fresh" garlic someone just purchased, is likely not to produce sufficient Allicin. A live garlic plant/bulb/(Allium sativum)/whatever you want to call it, naturally produces Allicin to help fight off insects and microorganisms. This part is purely personal hypothesis on my part, but a "fresh" garlic bulb, has likely produced all the Allicin it ever will, trying to repair itself/fight off that commercial harvester, that just rip it to shreds, making a suitable appearance for public purchase. The rest of this post isn't hypothesis....
Either way, Allicin is extremely unstable and will never reach your fish. Allicin quickly turns into various other sulfur compounds (Allicin itself is a sulfur-based compound). Pure Allicin is not even available commercially for purchase due to it's instability (for things like medication, Diallyl trisulfade is produced chemically, and has similar properties to Allicin). But if you go with the argument that you were able to get Allicin by crushing some garlic, the harshness of a marine environment will likely play havoc on Allicin, however that's not even the main argument, which is mathematics, by way of dilution. Due to Allicin's instability, you can't let the fish's food soak in the garlic juice for an appropriate amount of time, and by the time the fish eats said food, the tank water would have diluted any of the Allicin anyway.
The final nail in the coffin for garlic, is that Allicin is not.bioavailable. Meaning that Allicin will never enter the fish's bloodstream, and will never reach those parasites attached to the fish.
Now having said all that, there is no way anyone can refute the evidence that in fact garlic, to some fish, is an appetite stimulant. And a fish that is eating more food, that happens to contain some garlic juice, is probably going to be a healthier fish then it was. I can say I've had some fish, various Butterflyfish, some dwarf angels, and my Lei trigger, that were equally turned off by adding garlic to their food.
Aqua you said a mouth full and very informative i must add,

 

[rcreations]

I don't know about concrete proof but I feed freshly "squeezed" garlic to my fish every day with the food. I soak the frozen food in some tank water, then I squeeze the juice from one garlic clove, stir it in with the food, let it thaw for 5 - 10 minutes and pour the contents in the tank.
I do this every morning and I've never had to battle ich or any other diseases. None whatsoever and during the past 4 years or so, I've had and still have all sort of fish, including tangs. It may have nothing to do with garlic, I can't sit here and say it's because of the garlic. I personally think the garlic helps but I have no proof. Only proof I have is that all my fish are healthy. Some I QT before putting them in the tank, some I didn't. Depends where I bought them.

 

[spanko]

Okay some more reading for you all.
http://www.reefs.org/library/article/h_cortes-jorge.html
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/sp/index.php

 

[beth]

Personally, I think there is something to it. Its not a medication, but I think it does act as a homeopathic repellent. Don't count on it to cure ich, or prevent it 100%.
Its probably just a good idea. Like drinking orange juice or taking zinc to prevent colds.