geothermal chiller

[tropills]

I was sitting on the sofa watching my tank and was brain storming a way to chill the water without the need of a chiller.... then it came to me, geothermal closed loop.

so my plan is to borrow a friends mini excavator, dig a 60" deep hole by 10' long and lay 150 feet of 1/2inch pex. water tubing
in the bottom of it, back fill and run the 2 ends into the house under the sump, hook a mag 9 on one end and pump tank water from the sump through the pex that is now 5 feet under ground at 52 degrees ground temp and back into the sump,thus eliminating the need for the chiller the tank heaters will keep the water temp warm if needed as the mag 9 will only be circulating 500 gph through the 150 feet of piping. anyone thinks this will work ???

 

[almostclueless]

no, I dont think it will cool very much. What would be better, is lay like 500' of a smaller pipe, so it (water) has more time underground.

 

[bang guy]

What's pex. water tubing?
I think the depth and the length is fine. Just make sure you have a material that can handle the torture of being underground long term.

 

[schnutzzy]

You have way to much time on your hands. It's a great thought, but the cost of parts, labor and excavator would cost twice as much as a chiller, if not more. I work with watermain all the time that is buried 5 feet deep and the water is coming out at 58-60, but constantly moving. If it doesn't constantly circulate the temp would go way up and water quality way down. Just my 2 cents. Great idea though.

 

[tropills]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2640311
What's pex. water tubing?
I think the depth and the length is fine. Just make sure you have a material that can handle the torture of being underground long term.
it's a ridged yet flexible tubing, they use it for water lines in new construction and radiant floor heating

 

[tropills]

Originally Posted by schnutzzy
http:///forum/post/2640312

You have way to much time on your hands. It's a great thought, but the cost of parts, labor and excavator would cost twice as much as a chiller, if not more. I work with watermain all the time that is buried 5 feet deep and the water is coming out at 58-60, but constantly moving. If it doesn't constantly circulate the temp would go way up and water quality way down. Just my 2 cents. Great idea though.
like I said in the first post it will have a mag 9 pumping it 24 hours a day through the entire length of the pipe, as for the cost, excavator is free,pump I have, pex tubing free,,, so ok 3 hours labor (my time)zero cost for parts and excavator , so no money invested verses 800 for a chiller, I think I'll go my route, if it works Great if not hey I tried ,all I need to do is cool the tank 5 degrees during the day so I'm confident it will work .....

 

[reefkprz]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2640311
What's pex. water tubing?
gods gift to plumbers. you can plumb in a house with pex in about half (or less) the time it would tak to run PVC or copper. wont burst if frozen with water in it it will just swell then shrink when it thaws. no need for elbow couplings just slip a kink preventer on the corner you want to take, slides through framing like a dream. its just good stuff.
I would say back fill very carrefully as pex is not very puncture resistant, once you got it buried though you'd be set for the next 25-50 years.

 

[tropills]

Originally Posted by reefkprZ
http:///forum/post/2640389
gods gift to plumbers. you can plumb in a house with pex in about half (or less) the time it would tak to run PVC or copper. wont burst if frozen with water in it it will just swell then shrink when it thaws. no need for elbow couplings just slip a kink preventer on the corner you want to take, slides through framing like a dream. its just good stuff.
I would say back fill very carrefully as pex is not very puncture resistant, once you got it buried though you'd be set for the next 25-50 years.
yeah I knew it was kinda thin so I'm covering it with sand, under and over it.
also FREE......

 

[reefkprz]

I knicked some in the framing of a house it only cut about half the thicknes but you could see the nick swell out from the water pressure, we had it fixed before it could burst, so I dont know how long it would have taken to pop but it was rater alarming how fast the bubble went from a nick to a 1/4 inch bulge.
dead sand would definatly be a good idea for a protective layer.
cant beat free.

 

[cmaxwell39]

I work for a company that does geothermal heating and cooling systems all the time (in fact it is our specialty). When putting in a geothermal loop we use polyethelyne tubing. It is quite a bit thicker than pex and has a 55 year warranty when buried underground.
One other thing to consider when looking at this project is this. When we run a geothermal heat pump on a closed loop our loop temperature swings. By the end of the winter we can have loop temperatures as low as 25 and by the end of the summer they can get up to 85 or 90. I doubt that you will have enough load on your loop to have to worry about it, but it is something to keep an eye on if it works initially and then seems to fall off in effectiveness.

 

[silverdak]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2640311
What's pex. water tubing?
I think the depth and the length is fine. Just make sure you have a material that can handle the torture of being underground long term.
Pex is a relatively new product in the plumbing field... introduced roughly 8 years ago i believe. its because copper tubing prices are on the rise.. while pex is cheaper, the fitings are cheaper.. the tool runs $300 or so tho. who ever is considering using this pipe please for your sake DONT GET THE CRIMPER!!! they make 2 types of fittings, the crimp fittings are crap and leak... a good supply house will let you borrow or rent the expander so you can do it the correct way. also dont waste money on the brass fittings for it.. the plastic ones are just as good.
this tubing is very high quality and I have personally had it has heating in the floors of my house for over 8 years now with 0 issues what so ever.
another great part about the pipe... it can expand 5X its size without popping or blowing... it will never get that big lol
ok thats all I got for ya, if you need more info I can supply it seeing as I work for a local supply house

 

[silverdak]

Originally Posted by reefkprZ
http:///forum/post/2640389
gods gift to plumbers. you can plumb in a house with pex in about half (or less) the time it would tak to run PVC or copper. wont burst if frozen with water in it it will just swell then shrink when it thaws. no need for elbow couplings just slip a kink preventer on the corner you want to take, slides through framing like a dream. its just good stuff.
I would say back fill very carrefully as pex is not very puncture resistant, once you got it buried though you'd be set for the next 25-50 years.
if he was worried about the puncturing of it... he should probably use the HE-Pex then... it has been proven stronger and more puncture resistant the regular pex

 

[tropills]

Originally Posted by cmaxwell39
http:///forum/post/2640491
I work for a company that does geothermal heating and cooling systems all the time (in fact it is our specialty). When putting in a geothermal loop we use polyethelyne tubing. It is quite a bit thicker than pex and has a 55 year warranty when buried underground.
One other thing to consider when looking at this project is this. When we run a geothermal heat pump on a closed loop our loop temperature swings. By the end of the winter we can have loop temperatures as low as 25 and by the end of the summer they can get up to 85 or 90. I doubt that you will have enough load on your loop to have to worry about it, but it is something to keep an eye on if it works initially and then seems to fall off in effectiveness.
I know that I may have a temp swing of 10 degrees but even if the ground temp was to get to 65 degrees that's still low enough to cool the tank.
the mag drive will hardly transfer enough heat to the geothermal loop to raise the out going water temp enough to worry about, any cooling I can produce will be cheaper and more energy efficient than any chiller on the market.
like they say GO GREEN.

 

[chilwil84]

169 for the tool at hd (and it comes with dies for 3 sizes)that crimps the fittings works great when done at the right spot on the fittings. have used it for years for outside showers with the only leak coming from trying to sweat a fitting to the connector with the pipe attatched and melted the pex. they sell a spray to allow u to do this but its better to sweat first than crimp the pex. the leak is more likely to occur if u use threaded fittings when you go from pex to copper, get the sweat fittings. if it only costs u time and u have it its worth the shot.

 

[chilwil84]

green is always good when cost effective.

 

[michael1972]

So you dig this hole and put this line in it how far from your sump is this hole and how deep will you bury this line after your hole untill it enters your house?
will it heat up after it comes out of the hole as it enters your home with the sun hitting it?
i was thinking about other ways i can chill my water i was thinking about getting a fridg and running some line in to it and out again with a pump and chill my water that way but the fridg is to far way from my sump and the line would heat up and the temp drop from the fridg would be lost b4 it made the diff.
let us know if it works and how you go about it thank you.

 

[kilted reefer]

I wish I could do something like that. It gets so hot here in the summer that we don't even need to use the hot water for a shower (the cold water is warm enough).
My concern is if the line ruptures, whether in 5 months or 5 years, are you putting additional filters in place to help prevent any contanimants from making it back into the sump?

 

[silverdak]

Originally Posted by chilwil84
http:///forum/post/2641859
169 for the tool at hd (and it comes with dies for 3 sizes)that crimps the fittings works great when done at the right spot on the fittings. have used it for years for outside showers with the only leak coming from trying to sweat a fitting to the connector with the pipe attatched and melted the pex. they sell a spray to allow u to do this but its better to sweat first than crimp the pex. the leak is more likely to occur if u use threaded fittings when you go from pex to copper, get the sweat fittings. if it only costs u time and u have it its worth the shot.

just an FYI... wirsbo pulled the crimper and crimp fittings from its line because they didnt work as well... lol no supply houses will sell it. only home dumpo has it now and for good reasons

 

[chilwil84]

dont see anything but crimp fittings in south jersey, and pex has been around since the mid 70s i believe. either way most plumbers around me wont touch either and will only do copper

 

[reefkprz]

Originally Posted by chilwil84
http:///forum/post/2644531
either way most plumbers around me wont touch either and will only do copper
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