Gifford Shooting-Let The Left-Wing Spin Begin

[mrdc]

The shooter looks like a 22yo pothead surfer dude. Well the guy has to have some serious mental issues and I hope he gets the needle but I don't know if that state has the death penalty. He killed a 9yo girl and wasn't even sucessful in his main target. What POS coward!! As much as I hate a lot of those in politics, I never preach viloence against them.

 

[reefraff]

The guy killed a federal judge, it doesn't matter what the state law is, he's up for the death penalty and his posting about "please don't be mad at me" is going to make it really hard to plead insanity.

 

[mrdc]

That is the same thing I read. Also more details are coming out about the shooter which is giving me a better picture of his state of mind. Seems like something changed in him a few years ago. He was also participating in anti gov't and semitic groups. It is weak minded people filled with hate that can me misled by these sort of groups. Just my opinion.

 

[mantisman51]

You folks on the left might want to not make such stupid proclamations about Palin. This guy was motivated by the hysterical calls that the religious right was destroying the country from YOUR side. Yet you lefties still are so filled with hate, so eager to blame anyone who doesn't think like you, that you assign all things evil to those who don't think like you. The most insidious thing, which is why I started this thread (THANK YOU FISHTACO) is to show how the Democrats use this kind of tragedy (ironically done by one of theirs this time) to say that ANY discussion that isn't within their left based universe is dangerous and inciting violence. Just like "hate speech" laws are now used to punish anyone who doesn't agree with homosexuality, make no mistake, those who think like Fishtaco want nothing more than to stop all of us conservatives from being able to voice our opinions without fear of prosecution. That's why they are blaming Sarah Palin (and the Today show today blamed "incindiary radio talk show hosts"), because they want to make any talk opposite theirs' illegal. Go to downtown San Francisco (and many other states and cities-I am most familiar with their law) and say, "The Bible says that homosexuality is a sin." That will get you arrested for a hate crime because it is "inciteful"-it is "inciting hatred of sodomites". Sound esoteric? They have every intention to make ANY dissent from the Democrat platform a hate crime and this kind of thing is how they do it.Before saying I am stretching it, listen carefully to the Democrat politicians and their media spokespeople; Katie: "Is this kind of rhetoric dangerous, Jim?" JIM:"Why yes it is Katie, the fact that Republican politicians and right wing radio use such inciteful speech, clearly motivates people like this. And they need to be held accountable just as much as those pulling the trigger". Katie: "So true Jim, maybe if enough people get tired of the violence perpetrated by the right-wing bomb throwers, they will finally press Congress to stop this kind of rhetoric." Jim: " Let's hope so, Katie".

 

[fishtaco]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/20#post_3347042
You folks on the left might want to not make such stupid proclamations about Palin. This guy was motivated by the hysterical calls that the religious right was destroying the country from YOUR side. Yet you lefties still are so filled with hate, so eager to blame anyone who doesn't think like you, that you assign all things evil to those who don't think like you. The most insidious thing, which is why I started this thread (THANK YOU FISHTACO) is to show how the Democrats use this kind of tragedy (ironically done by one of theirs this time) to say that ANY discussion that isn't within their left based universe is dangerous and inciting violence. Just like "hate speech" laws are now used to punish anyone who doesn't agree with homosexuality, make no mistake, those who think like Fishtaco want nothing more than to stop all of us conservatives from being able to voice our opinions without fear of prosecution. That's why they are blaming Sarah Palin (and the Today show today blamed "incindiary radio talk show hosts"), because they want to make any talk opposite theirs' illegal. Go to downtown San Francisco (and many other states and cities-I am most familiar with their law) and say, "The Bible says that homosexuality is a sin." That will get you arrested for a hate crime because it is "inciteful"-it is "inciting hatred of sodomites". Sound esoteric? They have every intention to make ANY dissent from the Democrat platform a hate crime and this kind of thing is how they do it.Before saying I am stretching it, listen carefully to the Democrat politicians and their media spokespeople; Katie: "Is this kind of rhetoric dangerous, Jim?" JIM:"Why yes it is Katie, the fact that Republican politicians and right wing radio use such inciteful speech, clearly motivates people like this. And they need to be held accountable just as much as those pulling the trigger". Katie: "So true Jim, maybe if enough people get tired of the violence perpetrated by the right-wing bomb throwers, they will finally press Congress to stop this kind of rhetoric." Jim: " Let's hope so, Katie".
Except you could not be more wrong about me Mantisman, I dislike both parties and don't approve of the behavior of either, conservatives here just like everywhere have the your with us or your against us mentality and that automatically makes me a lib and liberals do the same thing. What party Palin is makes no difference to me at all, I just think all the violence rhetoric thrown around can come to no good and only breaks the system down further.
This is about being a decent person and I am well aware that Palin nor the Tea Party had anything to do with this, it still does not make what Palin put on her website right and if I was in her shoes I would feel like a scumbag right about now.
So yes, make me the bad guy here, but I am just tired of political BS taken to the extreme providing a thriving garden for violence like this to happen, of course since I am not a conservative, anything I say here is clearly wrong.
Fishtaco

 

[mantisman51]

I am not a Republican, I am very conservative and I agree that there are many for whom it is Republican versus Democratic. That is not what I have said or what this thread is about. It is about the left, everytime there is a tragedy, wants to use the power of the law to stop any dissent from their warped view. The left, uses the Democrat party for this. So I am not anti-Democrat (Cecil Andrus was the best governor of my home state of Idaho-a Democratic ), I am against the leftists of this country using the power of the law to silence those they disagree with. And this crime, like too many others, they are saying conservative speech is the cause. You know, as well as I, that the left wants to use this to further squelch the free speech rights of conservatives. It is especially disgusting knowing that this shooter was a whacked-out lefty and they know it and still find blame with Sarah Palin and Republicans when the guy was motivated by the "hate speech" of the left.

 

[wangotango]

Like the police chief said "everyone is entitled to free speech but it has consequences." I can accept the fact that this guy was a leftist loon and maybe I jumped on the bandwagon too soon, ok. I can accept that both sides are guilty of anti-the-other-side rhetoric, ok. From where I'm standing (a registered Republican) I have not seen the left say things like "we'll use second amendment remedies" (still havn't heard what that entails), or "take the country back" or using a gun sight (as innocent a move as it may have been). The point is, when people are getting wounded and killed for their political beliefs, the rhetoric on both sides needs to be toned down. Even if the gun sight on Palin's website didn't set this guy off, was it really an appropriate graphic to begin with? I think the fact that this happened due to a heated political climate, regardless of this guy's true intentions and motivation, says something about where we've come. I think fishtaco sums it up nicely...
The fact that Rep. Giffords set aside time to meet with her constituents to talk about what's going on shows her true character as a politician. Hopefully more of them will look at her as an example in the future.

 

[mantisman51]

I can get on board your bandwagon Wango. That is a reasoned approach. However, the theme of the 2006 Democrat congressional campaign was "Take Our Country Back". I understood the message. I disagreed, but knew that they meant the Reps had taken the country too far to the right. BTW, it's Gabrielle GIFFORDS. Also, the police just released a picture of the suspected accomplice. Looks like the doctor at the shooting was right. Also, the surgeon who operated on Giffords said she made it through the most critical 8 hours and is in an induced coma. But she was talking and responding before the surgery. I pray she makes a full recovery. I do disagree with her, but every fiber of my being wants to see her make it and come back strong.

 

[reefraff]

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun. Because from what I understand folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans.” Barack Obama at a 2008 Philly fundraiser
Argue with your neighbors, get in their faces" Barack Obama
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCMDur9CDZ4
If Republicans take control of Congress it will mean hand to hand combat for the next 2 years" Barack Obama
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/oct/07/news/la-pn-obama-base-20101008
"If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, ‘We’re gonna punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us" Barack Obama
Which party do you suppose produced this map?

 

[wangotango]

^ Since it was to counter my point, I would guess the Democrats. I get it I get it, the left, the Democrats and Obama say stupid crap too. Am I surprised by it? No, the quotes sound familiar. And I won't deny that he said them. How much violence occurred where those bullseyes are? (Not heated arguing or some pissed guy taking a swing). A target on a specific district where people were actually killed? A target on a district whose representative voted controversially and was shot for it? Come on. Politicians, Obama included, say some stuff in frustration that is probably stupid. If things are heated and you're upset with the other side you don't just say "meh." HE did NOT say "if you disagree with your neighbors use second amendment remedies." HE did NOT say "Latinos punish your enemies by taking back whats yours." How many Obama-lovers show up to rallies with Glock-9s strapped to their belts? (Although I'm sure somewhere there is a picture of someone with one so that makes that argument moot.)
So is this supposed to continue? For every anti-left commentator, poster from a rally, etc, there is an anti-right. People can go back and forth with that for eternity, it's not going to change anything. Anti the other-side rhetoric just for the sake of "I'm right you're wrong?" Drawing Hitler mustaches on the president because you don't like what he's doing (granted I've seen plenty of Nazi-Bushes). Is one side innocent? Absolutely not. BOTH are guilty of it, and BOTH need to re-evaluate how they engage the opposite side. It needs to be through debate, and talking about issues, and reaching some sort of resolution that benefits the people that put them in office. It cannot be through "take back your country" rallies, or target graphics on a website. That only adds fire to the already hostile political climate. Yesterday went beyond being upset with the other side. People were killed. Whether it was the right's rhetoric or the left's rhetoric that caused a unstable person to act is not the point anymore. The point (my point) is that rhetoric PERIOD has gotten us to a place in politics that has become dangerous to voice your opinion and take a stand which may not be popular to everyone. Yesterday it went beyond the left calling the right stupid or racist and the right calling the left socialists. Can you at least see that point?

 

[mantisman51]

I think, as you said previously, both sides have got to scale back on this crap. The point I would make is neither the liberals, nor the conservatives are responsible for this kind of violence. Do both sides fan the flames, yes. Does one side have the right (or gall) to use political or legal power to silence the other, equally no. But mark my words, there will those who use this to try to silence political dissent from their point of view. That is more dangerous than the occasional nut.

 

[ironeagle2006]

I agree with the Rethoric needs to be Turned down quite abit. However when someone like O Rielly are hammered because they call out the Obama Administartion on their Lies or Beck for wanting to return this country closer to what the People that wrote the US Constitution want by people like Maddow and Olberman to the point that it is like why. Or when Juan Willams was fired for even going on the Fox News Network by NPR because he was speaking out on how he felt Afarid by Muslims. The worst of the Hate Speech I see anymore is from the Obama Administration the Left wing of the Democratic Party. Like when Obama told the Republican Party to GET ON THE BACK OF THE BUS.

 

[reefraff]

What happened yesterday more than likely had nothing to do what either side has said. Nothing in the wack job's recent history shows evidence of any conventional political leanings. He is a sick disgruntled individual who decided to cheack out in a grand and glorious fashion from the sounds of things. Had Alice Cooper been in town for a book signing he might have been the target.
As far as the discourse goes the rough political speech is nothing new. Consider the Hamilton-Burr duel of 1804. You had an ex Secretary of state and sitting vice president fight a duel with the vice president killing Hamilton. I've been following politics since before the watergate era and nothing much has changed as far as what the politicians do. The big difference is everything they do say ends up on a twit, or on youtube or facebook and all the mindless minions join in on the fun.
What the politicos should take away from yesterday is nothing they said set this guy off. But what if it had? Do they want to be the match that lights the fuse of the next wack job? Certainly something for them to think about.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironeagle2006 http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/20#post_3347292
I agree with the Rethoric needs to be Turned down quite abit. However when someone like O Rielly are hammered because they call out the Obama Administartion on their Lies or Beck for wanting to return this country closer to what the People that wrote the US Constitution want by people like Maddow and Olberman to the point that it is like why. Or when Juan Willams was fired for even going on the Fox News Network by NPR because he was speaking out on how he felt Afarid by Muslims. The worst of the Hate Speech I see anymore is from the Obama Administration the Left wing of the Democratic Party. Like when Obama told the Republican Party to GET ON THE BACK OF THE BUS.
And here is a problem. Who gets to decide what is hate speech? I've seen time and time again one side or the other call any criticism of their boy hate speech.
Here's an example. "Obama is a marxist piece of crap" to me is hate speech because it seeks to insult without providing context. Same deal with "Bush lied and people died".
But if someone said "Obama is pushing policies so far to the left he must be a Marxist" or "Bush ignored some analysts who opposed invading Iraq and started an unnecessary war " I think that is perfectly acceptable political debate. The media in this country has decayed to the point where you have to dig so hard and so far to find an accurate accounting of stories of a political nature the vast majority of people in this country have no clue what is really going on half the time.

 

[oscardeuce]

Again I refer you to George Washington's farewell address. The old guy knew what was coming.

 

[mrdc]

The father of the 9yo is on the today show right now. He's struggling but is keeping it together. Man, I don't think I could do it because I would be breaking down hard. Just an all around sad situtation.

 

[ironeagle2006]

However what always mademy blood boil is you look back at history here in the USA. It is not thewhat would be considered the right side of the fence that uses voilence for the Most part. Yes I will give you there are some that are Wacko when it comes to the Abortion issue and those people have crossed the line. However lets look shall we the Weather Underground Left wing the Union thugs since with the Unions it is either for or agains tus and we know who the Unions Support anymore. The Anarchists are always trying to Burn down everything during a G-20 WTO WMF meeting. Then we have the Tree Huggers the ones that will hammer spikes into a tree so the loggers get killed when they go to cut the tree down. Or groups like the Sea Shepards that will ram another countries ships. You compare things from the Left to the right it is no comparision in who has the history of using Volience anginst those that are against them or speak out against them.Lets not forget the KKK is a Democratic creation.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdc http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/20#post_3347404
The father of the 9yo is on the today show right now. He's struggling but is keeping it together. Man, I don't think I could do it because I would be breaking down hard. Just an all around sad situtation.
That kids mother did an interview on Fox Sunday morning. She kept it together better than the woman doing the interview. Gotta be one tough lady.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironeagle2006 http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/20#post_3347405
However what always mademy blood boil is you look back at history here in the USA. It is not thewhat would be considered the right side of the fence that uses voilence for the Most part. Yes I will give you there are some that are Wacko when it comes to the Abortion issue and those people have crossed the line. However lets look shall we the Weather Underground Left wing the Union thugs since with the Unions it is either for or agains tus and we know who the Unions Support anymore. The Anarchists are always trying to Burn down everything during a G-20 WTO WMF meeting. Then we have the Tree Huggers the ones that will hammer spikes into a tree so the loggers get killed when they go to cut the tree down. Or groups like the Sea Shepards that will ram another countries ships. You compare things from the Left to the right it is no comparision in who has the history of using Volience anginst those that are against them or speak out against them.Lets not forget the KKK is a Democratic creation.
Interesting point.
The Democrats are already talking gun control legislation. Unless you want to make every person buying a gun go through a mental health screening first not sure there is any law that would have prevented this. But if we are going to put extra conditions on our second amendment right perhaps we should do the same with the 1st which many of those same Democrats claim led to this tragedy.

 

[stdreb27]

I"m gonna ignore the rest of your post. Because it couldn't be more misplaced but that is a whole different political argument. But you do realise that they made a movie about assassinating W? They wrote a screen play, and a book too. Openly creating a plot (story line) to kill W....
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin#post_3346640
I'll just leave it at this: It's a shame that any political party has to be so extreme as to fuel the type of hatred required to make a man do something like this. Granted I am only 29 years old, but never in my life have I remembered the politics of hatred being so front and center in the political arena. Heck, even me and all my Bushie bashers back in the 2000's never openly talked about wanting to "kill" the guy. And I think that is because we really didn't want to see him harmed, just out of office...