Gifford Shooting-Let The Left-Wing Spin Begin

mrdc

mrdc

Active Member
I've only heard about the 9yo, judge and representative being shot. Weren't others shot and kiled?
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by WangoTango http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/20#post_3347271
So is this supposed to continue? For every anti-left commentator, poster from a rally, etc, there is an anti-right.
As others have said, that's really the point. It has become disgusting the hypocrisy and manipulation of opinion through the use of "hot button words" like Racist, Teabagger, Hate, Party of No, Liberal this or that, Extremist, etc.
It's a sad state of affairs that in this country, the media, hollywood, and the political class has learned that they can manipulate public opinion by dropping these hot button words. Everyone has become so afraid of saying the wrong thing or even thinking the wrong thing that they become driven by irrational fear.
"You can' t call me a racist if I call you one first."
In other words, the political climate is driven by the manipulation of negativity and fear, rather than virtue, forward thinking, and positivity.
The hypocrisy is also a huge issue. I shake my head in disgust when I read articles on a CNN article from it's readers, who decry the right as racists and bigots, while in the next breath tossing around the word "teabagger" as if it's an amusement, when in reality it is no better. At times, people make good points, then they ruin any credibility they have by being hypcrites... at least they would ruin it, if people would see it instead of swallowing it up like good little obsequious media stooges.
Furthermore it has become commonplace nowadays to not let one's own beliefs be known and allowed to stand up to the scrutiny of others. Political types on both sides of the aisle have taken to this. Rather than sell American's on one's beliefs, it's far easier to use hot button terms to insult and discredit the opposing opinion. Congress (BOTH sides) are so guilty of this it's absolutely pathetic. As a candidate, if you want to impress me, spend some time telling me about what you'll do and why it's good, not about why your opponent is a racist or a... whatever.
In the end, we all do need to get more constitutional. Freedom of speech, do not deny others of life, liberty, or property. Spend more time extolling the virtues of your political position, rather than putting down the opposition. You can accomplish the same adgenda with virtually no negativity if all you have is a tad of ethics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/20#post_3347299
And here is a problem. Who gets to decide what is hate speech? I've seen time and time again one side or the other call any criticism of their boy hate speech.
/p>
Here's an example. "Obama is a marxist piece of crap" to me is hate speech because it seeks to insult without providing context. Same deal with "Bush lied and people died".
But if someone said "Obama is pushing policies so far to the left he must be a Marxist" or "Bush ignored some analysts who opposed invading Iraq and started an unnecessary war " I think that is perfectly acceptable political debate. The media in this country has decayed to the point where you have to dig so hard and so far to find an accurate accounting of stories of a political nature the vast majority of people in this country have no clue what is really going on half the time.
Thank you.
This is not the fault of any one group. This is the fault of:
- The politicians for being all to eager to sell their own ethical soul to go for cheap vote buying and power mongering
- The media for enabling the behavior and abandoning their place as a government watchdog and taking up a posture of entertainment
- US (most of all) for being receptive to this behavior, electing those politicians and watching that media and showing these people that these tactics work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/20#post_3347447
Interesting point.
The Democrats are already talking gun control legislation. Unless you want to make every person buying a gun go through a mental health screening first not sure there is any law that would have prevented this. But if we are going to put extra conditions on our second amendment right perhaps we should do the same with the 1st which many of those same Democrats claim led to this tragedy.
Although it's easy to assume that since he bought the gun legally a month before the crime that gun control would stop this, the obvious next question should really be "If it wasn't legal for him to buy it, would that have stopped him from aquiring one illegally." The pundits are already comparing this to the assasinations or attempts on past presidents, such as Lincoln, Garfield, Kennedy, Reagan, etc, and are talking about how guns are used in all of these cases.
The thing is that there is no way to determine to what extent a particular suspect would go if "X" level of gun control were in place. There is no way we'll ever know.
To comment generally,
The peaceful transition of power and the way that so many of our elected representatives can meet directly with people every day with minimal security and be perfectly safe is one of the greatest political sights to behold in the history of this planet. What happened here, rare as it is, is a tradgety of this concept. At this point, we do not know what, if any political motivation is behind it. Anyone commenting or attributing what happened here to a particular political individual or influence at this point is merely perpetuating so much of what is wrong with this country.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by WangoTango http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin#post_3346652
Taken down after:
Not saying that it was the right or "tea baggers" but with all the "we gotta take back the country" and "evil socialist facist agendas" "we need to be afraid of Obama and his policies" etc rhetoric that seems to come from that direction, it takes one crazy person who takes these words seriously to do something like this. The fact that her office was vandalized and she received death threads about her stance on healthcare reform then this happens only makes it seem (to me at least) that this is what caused this.
lol that incites me to violence.
 
wangotango

wangotango

Active Member
I'm glad it didn't incite you to do something violent, doesn't mean it's beyond the realm of possibility for someone to. Someone referenced that graphic and I posted it. Didn't say that Palin used it to go Manchurian Candidate on the guy. A lot of people play violent video games. Most don't go out on shooting sprees or drive cars over hookers, but to a few who get lost in them it's happend before. A lot people thought of Dr. Tiller as a killer and didn't do anything about it, and to one commentator he was known as "Tiller the killer." Dr. Tiller was killed. Takes one unstable person to do something stupid like killing someone with a different ideology to give everyone on "their side" a black eye.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by WangoTango http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/40#post_3347611
I'm glad it didn't incite you to do something violent, doesn't mean it's beyond the realm of possibility for someone to. Someone referenced that graphic and I posted it. Didn't say that Palin used it to go Manchurian Candidate on the guy. A lot of people play violent video games. Most don't go out on shooting sprees or drive cars over hookers, but to a few who get lost in them it's happend before. A lot people thought of Dr. Tiller as a killer and didn't do anything about it, and to one commentator he was known as "Tiller the killer." Dr. Tiller was killed. Takes one unstable person to do something stupid like killing someone with a different ideology to give everyone on "their side" a black eye.
This is where the hypocrisy rears it's ugly head... The president has advocated things like "if they bring a knife bring a gun." http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/14/obama-if-they-bring-a-knife-to-the-fight-we-bring-a-gun/
But nah, some graphic with cross hairs is inflammatory. What is next renaming Target because of the red (red is an inflammatory color) circles in their logo?!?
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by WangoTango http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/40#post_3347611
I'm glad it didn't incite you to do something violent, doesn't mean it's beyond the realm of possibility for someone to. Someone referenced that graphic and I posted it. Didn't say that Palin used it to go Manchurian Candidate on the guy. A lot of people play violent video games. Most don't go out on shooting sprees or drive cars over hookers, but to a few who get lost in them it's happend before. A lot people thought of Dr. Tiller as a killer and didn't do anything about it, and to one commentator he was known as "Tiller the killer." Dr. Tiller was killed. Takes one unstable person to do something stupid like killing someone with a different ideology to give everyone on "their side" a black eye.
While I agree with your comments throughout this thread (as my above post should indicate) that the rhetoric needs to be toned down, I am not sure I see the point in doing so just to try to stop this violence. Violence happens throughout the media, and has done so since the beginning of recorded time. Even classic works of art imply violence that was probably considered shocking at the time when it was created.
I would like to tone down the rhetoric because it's not useful and because it's clouding the true issues that we need to be giving thought to, not because someone might take it as a call to action. We as a society have become too willing to blame others. The media has become a cop out... an excuse for violent behavior. We are all capable of understanding the difference between right and wrong. Instead of rhetoric being blamed for this kid's behavior, how about tossing out the excuse and holding him accountable? It's time we start accepting responsibility for our actions, rather than shifting blame to others. Such holds true in so many ways nowadays... I can't even list them all.
Besides, suppression is a fools errand. As soon as you tone down the "most violent" media, the point you stop becomes "most violent." Then you tone that down. In the end, it all becomes watered down muck that evokes no real human emotion or expression. I don't think anyone wants to live in an Orwellian world like that.
 
mrdc

mrdc

Active Member
Just saw the shoooter's mug shot and he was smiling away, I hope some hard prison thugs take that smile right off him.
 
wangotango

wangotango

Active Member
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/40#post_3347626
Quote:
Originally Posted by WangoTango http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/40#post_3347611
I'm glad it didn't incite you to do something violent, doesn't mean it's beyond the realm of possibility for someone to. Someone referenced that graphic and I posted it. Didn't say that Palin used it to go Manchurian Candidate on the guy. A lot of people play violent video games. Most don't go out on shooting sprees or drive cars over hookers, but to a few who get lost in them it's happend before. A lot people thought of Dr. Tiller as a killer and didn't do anything about it, and to one commentator he was known as "Tiller the killer." Dr. Tiller was killed. Takes one unstable person to do something stupid like killing someone with a different ideology to give everyone on "their side" a black eye.
This is where the hypocrisy rears it's ugly head... The president has advocated things like "if they bring a knife bring a gun." http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/14/obama-if-they-bring-a-knife-to-the-fight-we-bring-a-gun/
But nah, some graphic with cross hairs is inflammatory. What is next renaming Target because of the red (red is an inflammatory color) circles in their logo?!?
I did not deny that the President said something stupid, nor did I deny that the Democrat equivalent of the "gun sight" graphic was inflammatory. Had I done so then that would by hypocratic. You said the President advocated bringing a gun to a fight. A figurative (although stupid remark) does not mean the President was in support of people carrying guns to political events, and to my knowledge, not many people did as a direct result of what he said. Sane, rational people know that it was a figurative remark, not a command to carry weapons to political events. The same sane, rational people know that the "gun sight" map is not a hit list, and don't go to take out those on the list. My point is that a few people who are not sane, and not rational do take "bring a gun to a knife fight" and "second amendment remedies" and "the teaparty is racist" and "kill abortion doctors" too seriously or think that Olbermanns "worst persons" or O'Reily's "pinheads are instructions to take out those people. It doesn't matter who they listen to. You could probably convince them that iguanas are gonna take over the world if you tried hard enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCSInet http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/40#post_3347627
Quote:
iv class="quote-block">
Originally Posted by WangoTango http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/40#post_3347611
I'm glad it didn't incite you to do something violent, doesn't mean it's beyond the realm of possibility for someone to. Someone referenced that graphic and I posted it. Didn't say that Palin used it to go Manchurian Candidate on the guy. A lot of people play violent video games. Most don't go out on shooting sprees or drive cars over hookers, but to a few who get lost in them it's happend before. A lot people thought of Dr. Tiller as a killer and didn't do anything about it, and to one commentator he was known as "Tiller the killer." Dr. Tiller was killed. Takes one unstable person to do something stupid like killing someone with a different ideology to give everyone on "their side" a black eye.
While I agree with your comments throughout this thread (as my above post should indicate) that the rhetoric needs to be toned down, I am not sure I see the point in doing so just to try to stop this violence. Violence happens throughout the media, and has done so since the beginning of recorded time. Even classic works of art imply violence that was probably considered shocking at the time when it was created.
I would like to tone down the rhetoric because it's not useful and because it's clouding the true issues that we need to be giving thought to, not because someone might take it as a call to action. We as a society have become too willing to blame others. The media has become a cop out... an excuse for violent behavior. We are all capable of understanding the difference between right and wrong. Instead of rhetoric being blamed for this kid's behavior, how about tossing out the excuse and holding him accountable? It's time we start accepting responsibility for our actions, rather than shifting blame to others. Such holds true in so many ways nowadays... I can't even list them all.
Besides, suppression is a fools errand. As soon as you tone down the "most violent" media, the point you stop becomes "most violent." Then you tone that down. In the end, it all becomes watered down muck that evokes no real human emotion or expression. I don't think anyone wants to live in an Orwellian world like that.
No argument here. There has been and always will be violence in the media. Most of that is for entertainment value. Why though in the "news" media has there become so much hatred and distrust directed towards the other side? Entertainment value? If I want to be entertained during the news I'll watch Jon Stewart. Like you said you can't blame the media for becoming this anymore than you can blame McDonalds because you dropped your hot coffee on your lap (although you can win a lawsuit against them). It's our fault for allowing it to become what it has.
Accountability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdc http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/40#post_3347704
Just saw the shoooter's mug shot and he was smiling away, I hope some hard prison thugs take that smile right off him.
Very creepy looking. Saw pictures of his "altar" in the backyard too.
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
No argument here. There has been and always will be violence in the media. Most of that is for entertainment value. Why though in the "news" media has there become so much hatred and distrust directed towards the other side? Entertainment value?
YES.
The media has become an entertainment vehicle. Time was that the media's primary interest was breaking the story before the competition did, or getting an exclusive.
These days it's become a ratings engine. Whoever can break the most sensationalistic story... it's no longer about telling the hard truth, it's about spoon feeding people whatever gets the viewers. Look at many of the major media outlets... CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, etc... routinely stories about Lindsay Lohan or what this "Snookie" girl is up to make front page news.
Look at our problems. Record debt. A nation divided. Unemployment. Home values. Border violence. Wars. All these things... and we want to hear about Lindsay freakin' Lohan. Absolutely, astoundingly pathetic. No wonder the rest of the world laughs at us.
Start really paying attention to the "spin" and you can realize just how pathetic it is... sensationalism at it's worst. "Democrats SLAM education bill." "Senator BLASTS remarks made about Don't Ask, Don't Tell." SLAM? BLAST? Gotta love the use of the most dramatic, sensationalistic words possible.
Years ago, viewers wouldn't have stood for this sort of "news." Now, they eat it up.
In the end, it's not the media's fault. It's ours. Too many of us are more concerned about what is on Entertainment Tonight or who is winning on Dancing with the Stars than what is going on in the world. We eat up this "entertainews" and do not demand better of the media. It's a free market system... the media can't really be blamed for giving people what they want.
We as a populace need to get educated, get involved, and demand that the media provide us with factual, educational information. AND, parroting the rhetoric, spreading the negativity and disseminating the sensationalistic rhetoric does nothing to further those ends. The media is only part of the problem. We as a populace need to rise above it.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Used to be able to read the newspaper to get around the garbage but there are so few decent one's left even that is lost.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
What I find ironic is Arizona is one of the most open-minded with their gun laws. They pretty much let anyone with a firearm "pack" anywhere they want. When this guy started opeing fire with the first clip in his 9mm, you're telling me there was no one else in the audience that had a gun that could've started shooting back? How did he even have time to get a second clip in?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/40#post_3347783
What I find ironic is Arizona is one of the most open-minded with their gun laws. They pretty much let anyone with a firearm "pack" anywhere they want. When this guy started opeing fire with the first clip in his 9mm, you're telling me there was no one else in the audience that had a gun that could've started shooting back? How did he even have time to get a second clip in?
He didn't. He was using stick clips that hold like 30 rounds. I am going clip shopping for the AR and Glock before prices spike, I am sure there will be a ban bill by the end of the week.
You didn't really expect anyone in a crowd of Democrats to be carrying an evil gun did you LOL! I read somewhere that one of the guys who tackled fruit loops had a gun but when the other guy grabbed the shooter this guy just helped him. In an interview on fox they asked the guy if there was anything he'd like to say to the shooter and he said "I didn't shoot you". Profound.
 
fishtaco

fishtaco

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/40#post_3347796
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/40#post_3347783
What I find ironic is Arizona is one of the most open-minded with their gun laws. They pretty much let anyone with a firearm "pack" anywhere they want. When this guy started opeing fire with the first clip in his 9mm, you're telling me there was no one else in the audience that had a gun that could've started shooting back? How did he even have time to get a second clip in?
He didn't. He was using stick clips that hold like 30 rounds. I am going clip shopping for the AR and Glock before prices spike, I am sure there will be a ban bill by the end of the week.
You didn't really expect anyone in a crowd of Democrats to be carrying an evil gun did you LOL! I read somewhere that one of the guys who tackled fruit loops had a gun but when the other guy grabbed the shooter this guy just helped him. In an interview on fox they asked the guy if there was anything he'd like to say to the shooter and he said "I didn't shoot you". Profound.
Why do you think you need high capacity clips?
Fishtaco
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
I agree with this statement.....I think what really upsets me is here in my home state were flying the flag 1/2 staff!!!!! For what? Being ex military, I consider myself patriotic, but I don't see them flying the flag 1/2 staff when our fallen brothers and sisters over in foreign lands are paying the ultimate sacrifice. Let's honor real heros IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdc http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/40#post_3347520
I've only heard about the 9yo, judge and representative being shot. Weren't others shot and kiled?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishtaco http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/40#post_3347807
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/40#post_3347796
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/40#post_3347783
What I find ironic is Arizona is one of the most open-minded with their gun laws. They pretty much let anyone with a firearm "pack" anywhere they want. When this guy started opeing fire with the first clip in his 9mm, you're telling me there was no one else in the audience that had a gun that could've started shooting back? How did he even have time to get a second clip in?
He didn't. He was using stick clips that hold like 30 rounds. I am going clip shopping for the AR and Glock before prices spike, I am sure there will be a ban bill by the end of the week.
You didn't really expect anyone in a crowd of Democrats to be carrying an evil gun did you LOL! I read somewhere that one of the guys who tackled fruit loops had a gun but when the other guy grabbed the shooter this guy just helped him. In an interview on fox they asked the guy if there was anything he'd like to say to the shooter and he said "I didn't shoot you". Profound.
Why do you think you need high capacity clips?
Fishtaco
Why not? Mainly enhance the value of the weapon should I sell it. Not sure if I'd bother buying a 30 rounder for the glock, only good for one thing really but would like to score for 15 rounders for the AR.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/40#post_3347809
I agree with this statement.....I think what really upsets me is here in my home state were flying the flag 1/2 staff!!!!! For what? Being ex military, I consider myself patriotic, but I don't see them flying the flag 1/2 staff when our fallen brothers and sisters over in foreign lands are paying the ultimate sacrifice. Let's honor real heros IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdc http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/40#post_3347520
I've only heard about the 9yo, judge and representative being shot. Weren't others shot and kiled?

Had the same thoughts. Flags at half staff at the capitol when a staff member gets killed but how many cops, soldiers or firemen die every day and it pretty much goes unnoticed there. Rubs me the wrong way a little but what are they gonna do, fly the flags half staff all the time?
 
socal57che

socal57che

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishtaco http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/40#post_3347807
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/40#post_3347796
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/383022/gifford-shooting-let-the-left-wing-spin-begin/40#post_3347783
What I find ironic is Arizona is one of the most open-minded with their gun laws. They pretty much let anyone with a firearm "pack" anywhere they want. When this guy started opeing fire with the first clip in his 9mm, you're telling me there was no one else in the audience that had a gun that could've started shooting back? How did he even have time to get a second clip in?
He didn't. He was using stick clips that hold like 30 rounds. I am going clip shopping for the AR and Glock before prices spike, I am sure there will be a ban bill by the end of the week.
You didn't really expect anyone in a crowd of Democrats to be carrying an evil gun did you LOL! I read somewhere that one of the guys who tackled fruit loops had a gun but when the other guy grabbed the shooter this guy just helped him. In an interview on fox they asked the guy if there was anything he'd like to say to the shooter and he said "I didn't shoot you". Profound.
Why do you think you need high capacity clips?
Fishtaco
Why do you need a fish tank in your living room? You don't. You want one. Who could care less if I need it or not. I don't need cheeseburgers either, but I still eat them. Lame argument, dude.
These clips you speak of are standard capacity, anyway. Some states like Ca only allow low capacity magazines like 10 rounders.
 
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