Golf pro kills red shouldered hawk

[reefraff]

Well I just hope the judge uses common sense in this case. I don't think this guy intended to kill the bird. I think jail should be used for those who intend to commit a criminal act. Someone did mention shooting a bald eagle if it was threatening his sanity. I realize that was a joke (I hope

) But a Bald Eagle is so well known and known to be a protected species someone who did that should have the book thrown at them. But even in that case I am not sure jail is the best solution although I can't say I would oppose it. My idea of someone who deserves jail time is someone who is shooting eagles for the mounts or to sell the feathers. That is a willful criminal act.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Clown Boy
http:///forum/post/2507925
Sorry you all.... it's the Texan in me coming out.

As a fellow, and older Texan, who disagrees with ya, I'd say no it's not.

 

[1journeyman]

Is it really a "1 in a million" shot when you have an apparent unlimited supply of golf balls and keep swinging away until you hit the bird?
I mean, let's face it; golfers hit par 3 Hole in Ones. The bird was bigger than a golf cup and closer than a Par 3... Given the fact that he kept swinging away until he hit the bird I don't think it's all that amazing.

 

[mfp1016]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2508386
Well I just hope the judge uses common sense in this case. I don't think this guy intended to kill the bird. I think jail should be used for those who intend to commit a criminal act. Someone did mention shooting a bald eagle if it was threatening his sanity. I realize that was a joke (I hope

) But a Bald Eagle is so well known and known to be a protected species someone who did that should have the book thrown at them. But even in that case I am not sure jail is the best solution although I can't say I would oppose it. My idea of someone who deserves jail time is someone who is shooting eagles for the mounts or to sell the feathers. That is a willful criminal act.
Yes you could argue that he didn't have sufficient background in newtonian physics to be able to predict the momentum of the ball, the impact of the ball, and the subesquent breaking of bones and crushing of organs. Yes, he is not a physicist nor a vetrinarian. But he is an adult acting like a little kid, unable to control his anger so he can go about playing his game. I honestly don't see how can view this as anything other than a malicious act.
Since when have fines for professional athletes deterred them from acting like childish baffoons. Fights still happen in hockey, basketball players still lose their cool, entire baseball teams still get in fights... Unfortunately, for people making millions of dollars, fines don't really mean that much.

 

[mfp1016]

Originally Posted by Clown Boy
http:///forum/post/2507922
But for goodness sakes, is it that important??? If a Bald Eagle is threatening my sanity, and all I have on hand is a gun, you can bet that I'd tech it off. Like said before, it's an animal. Ok.... it's a species of animals. Still animals.
Isn't part of being human, being able to control our emotions, especially while playing a game?

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by Clown Boy
http:///forum/post/2507922
But for goodness sakes, is it that important??? If a Bald Eagle is threatening my sanity, and all I have on hand is a gun, you can bet that I'd tech it off. Like said before, it's an animal. Ok.... it's a species of animals. Still animals.
Wow, that's pretty remarkable, and I am sad to be a Texan.
Maybe this once I'll be happier to say I am originally from New York. A complete disregard for laws and wildlife is not what I consider "Texan," at least the Texans I know.
I thought gee, golfers. Nice to be outside, enjoying the walk around...it is a HAZARD on the course. Buck up, big boy. Just because people get a sign put up asking them to be quiet on the course for your highness and the bird didn't cooperate. I hope the film crew was filming this.
Should he go to jail? I don't know. If it is what is on the books, then absolutely.
I'm proud to have chimney swifts in my chimney

Yes they squawk up a storm, but it is pretty darn cool.
BTW, you can argue he didn't do this intentionally. But there are all sorts of crimes that have no intent. That is for the court to decide, but there is still punishment, even without intent.

 

[mfp1016]

Originally Posted by Pontius
http:///forum/post/2509041
where's the point in the story where it said he swung away until he finally hit it? the story I saw said he hit 3-4 balls in the general direction.
golfers don't routinely hit holes in one on a par 3 either. 75 yards would be a long par 3 shot. so if you tee off and get anywhere on the green (which is generally about 20 feet in diameter), you're a pretty good shot. so if he was purposely able to hit the hawk, which has a diamater of about 1.5 feet while it's up in a tree and not on the ground, then he is the greatest golfer ever.
No a par three is usually at least 100 years, for pros more like 200 yards.
Maybe not make par threes, but they routinely put it within a few feet of the couple, and considering you exercise the bird to be 1.5 in diameter that is not too hard of a target.

 

[dlauber]

He should've just screamed, "AHH, its coming towards us!!" and then hit it =P
But seriously...I think this is just rediculous, its a stupid bird.
Its not like its so obvious that its a protected bird, like a bald eagle.
A fine would be fine, but you shouldnt go to jail for that. He was probally just hitting the balls near it to scare it out of the tree and not mean to kill it, and that cannot be compared to someone speeding in a car and not meaning to hit and kill another person.
This is in no way (imo) animaly cruelty, if that is animal cruelty every hunter should have their guns taken away and thrown in jail, because that is way more cruel then death by golf ball.
Some animals killed by hunters arent even dead before they get tied up and taken away, and if they arent they are clubbed to death...or their necks snapped

 

[ophiura]

Hunters typically have permits for certain animals, and many of those animals are "regulated" by fish and game to study impact on populations and ensure they are not overhunted.
Even a hunter just going out on their own and shooting whatever they dang well please will find themselves in trouble.
I don't consider hunting - by a skilled hunter - cruel per se. However if you are not a good shot, I don't think you should be out there.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by mfp1016
http:///forum/post/2509075
No a par three is usually at least 100 years, for pros more like 200 yards.
Maybe not make par threes, but they routinely put it within a few feet of the couple, and considering you exercise the bird to be 1.5 in diameter that is not too hard of a target.
ok, 75 yards is a SHORT par 3. either way, there is nothing routine about a hole in one. it takes the average golfer 3 shots to put it from tee box to the cup. so the first shot probably is not even going to be within 30+ feet of the hole, the second shot is a short chip or long putt, and the 3rd finally puts in the cup, IF you make par. now considering this guy's a pro, he's probably better than average, so he could probably do it in 2 shots. but still, a hole in one would be miraculous. and he's obviously mediocre for a pro golfer because I've never heard of him before this story broke. also, no one seems to be taking into account my point that the bird was not on the ground, but elevated high up in a tree. golfers aim for a spot on the fairway, not way up off the ground, so that would have decreased his chances.
either way, this is silly. I don't watch or care about golf, I don't know this guy, he's rich and probably an a**h*** to boot. I just think it's a joke to presume he's a good enough shot to do this on purpose from 75 yards away when the bird's up in the tree.

 

[kjr_trig]

Originally Posted by Pontius
http:///forum/post/2509041
where's the point in the story where it said he swung away until he finally hit it? the story I saw said he hit 3-4 balls in the general direction.
golfers don't routinely hit holes in one on a par 3 either. 75 yards would be a long par 3 shot. so if you tee off and get anywhere on the green (which is generally about 20 feet in diameter), you're a pretty good shot. so if he was purposely able to hit the hawk, which has a diamater of about 1.5 feet while it's up in a tree and not on the ground, then he is the greatest golfer ever.

Pontius, sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about....Give a PGA Tour player like Tripp 10 balls from 75 yards and he will hit at least 5 within 10 feet and likely at least one within 3 feet given normal conditions and if a Tour player ever missed a green from 75 yards he would be extremely upset, a 75 yard par 3 would be the shortest par 3 the entire year on the PGA Tour by about 25 yards, the average par 3 on tour would be close to 200 yards...This was not a "1 in a million shot" as you put it....Trust me I am a PGA Member (Teaching Professional) i.e. nowhere near as skilled a player as Tripp, give me five balls from 75 yards and I promise I will scare a bird.

 

[dlauber]

If a hunter gets caught killing an animal one too many times the legal limit or an animal thats not in season, they are not going to jail, a hefty fine maybe, not jail time.

 

[ophiura]

I don't think anyone wants more than what the law requires. I don't think he should go to jail just because. I want this handled as the law requires.

 

[ophiura]

I don't understand this. It is a FACT, he hit the bird. He was AIMING at the bird. What is the argument?
Even if there was NO intent to kill it, you are still accountable for your actions when they in turn break a law. If you rear end someone in a car - likely no intent - but you are responsible. If you were engaged in an activity that resulted in an accident (following to close, or hitting golf balls at a bird), you are accountable.
He did it. Intentionally or not, he did it. He is accountable. He should do what the law requires. Whether a fine, or they are saying community service at a bird sanctuary. He aimed at the bird, he hit the bird, there were witnesses to it...the argument over whether it can reasonably be done or not is moot.

 

[kjr_trig]

Originally Posted by ophiura
http:///forum/post/2509114
I don't understand this. It is a FACT, he hit the bird. He was AIMING at the bird. What is the argument?
Even if there was NO intent to kill it, you are still accountable for your actions when they in turn break a law. If you rear end someone in a car - likely no intent - but you are responsible. If you were engaged in an activity that resulted in an accident (following to close, or hitting golf balls at a bird), you are accountable.
He did it. Intentionally or not, he did it. He is accountable. He should do what the law requires. Whether a fine, or they are saying community service at a bird sanctuary. He aimed at the bird, he hit the bird, there were witnesses to it...the argument over whether it can reasonably be done or not is moot.
Agreed, had Tripp said "let me see if I can knock one over there close to him and scare him off so we can do this", maybe we could just say it was an unfortunate incident...But when a golfer of that skill level says he is trying to hit him and does so....there should be repercussions.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by kjr_trig
http:///forum/post/2509102
Pontius, sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about....Give a PGA Tour player like Tripp 10 balls from 75 yards and he will hit at least 5 within 10 feet and likely at least one within 3 feet given normal conditions and if a Tour player ever missed a green from 75 yards he would be extremely upset, a 75 yard par 3 would be the shortest par 3 the entire year on the PGA Tour by about 25 yards, the average par 3 on tour would be close to 200 yards...This was not a "1 in a million shot" as you put it....Trust me I am a PGA Member (Teaching Professional) i.e. nowhere near as skilled a player as Tripp, give me five balls from 75 yards and I promise I will scare a bird.
here's an interview with the player himself saying that anyone who says a pga player can just make any 75-100 yard shot they aim for "doesn't know what they're talking about".
Ophiura, I agree, he DID kill a protected bird and he should pay a fine for it. but all this talk about jail time is silly. further, he could've easily covered it up and there never would've been any word on it. he, or the people with him, are the ones who reported the incident to begin with.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by kjr_trig
http:///forum/post/2509123
Agreed, had Tripp said "let me see if I can knock one over there close to him and scare him off so we can do this", maybe we could just say it was an unfortunate incident...But when a golfer of that skill level says he is trying to hit him and does so....there should be repercussions.
he never said he was trying to hit the bird, he said he was trying to hit the TREE that the bird was sitting in.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2508462
Is it really a "1 in a million" shot when you have an apparent unlimited supply of golf balls and keep swinging away until you hit the bird?
I mean, let's face it; golfers hit par 3 Hole in Ones. The bird was bigger than a golf cup and closer than a Par 3... Given the fact that he kept swinging away until he hit the bird I don't think it's all that amazing.
where's the point in the story where it said he swung away until he finally hit it? the story I saw said he hit 3-4 balls in the general direction.
golfers don't routinely hit holes in one on a par 3 either. 75 yards would be a long par 3 shot. so if you tee off and get anywhere on the green (which is generally about 20 feet in diameter), you're a pretty good shot. so if he was purposely able to hit the hawk, which has a diamater of about 1.5 feet while it's up in a tree and not on the ground, then he is the greatest golfer ever.

 

[dlauber]

I am just not entirely convinced that he hit the bird intentionally. He may have said "ill get it this time" but I think that was merely for laughs. I dont think even he expected to hit it, and I dont think he, nor anyone else that was there at the time knew it was a protected bird.
If anyone else there knew it was protected, they would by law have to be prosecuted also for not attempting to stop him from shooting golfballs at it.
I just dont think this is cause for jailtime...no matter what the law says...its not like he tied the bird down and tortured it for fun.
Golfers dont hit a ball in the air and it directly drops in the cup, generally they roll 10-20 feet down a hill, after traveling in a very high arc, and the clubs are specially picked out for that hole. And when a golfer does hit it, hes usually very surprised.
Hitting a hole in one on a par three which is usually less then 75 yards is not nearly as impressive as hitting a bird in tree at 75 yards. THe ball which hit that bird was probally destined for 150+ yards. A lot more inacurate shot then a par 3 hole in one.

 

[kjr_trig]

Originally Posted by Pontius
http:///forum/post/2509125
here's an interview with the player himself saying that anyone who says a pga player can just make any 75-100 yard shot they aim for "doesn't know what they're talking about".
Ophiura, I agree, he DID kill a protected bird and he should pay a fine for it. but all this talk about jail time is silly. further, he could've easily covered it up and there never would've been any word on it. he, or the people with him, are the ones who reported the incident to begin with.
I am not saying "make", but a 4 inch cup (damn I'm a golf pro, and I can't remember the exact width of the cup) is not the same as a Hawk, I am not saying it wasn't a lucky/unlucky shot, but make no mistake whatsoever, this was nowhere near one in million, more like 1 in 50 or less.