Goodbye 4th Amendment?

oscardeuce

oscardeuce

Active Member
While the oil leaks. President Obama blasts the 4th Amendment, forcing (without due legal process BP to pony up a 20 billion slush fund.
I hateto bring up the constitution again, but were does the President get this type of power over a private company ( no matter how guilty theymay be).
 
speg

speg

Active Member
I think you're thinking of the 5th Amendment.
If you want to fight about our 4th Amendment rights I'm right there with ya though... ever heard of the Patriot Act? aka: goodbye 4th Amendment protections.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
BP AGREED to pay it. If they folded like a tent in a hurricane that doesn't make it unconstitutional. Probably a good PR move, they are going to have to pay the money anyway. They are also supporters of Obama and I am sure wanted to throw him something to make it look like he actually did something.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
+1 Reef. There is precedent even if he forced them to pay up. During WWII and the Civil War the Presidents nationalized industry and forced them to do their bidding. The same argument was made then, that the President couldn't force an industry to do something without due process. Republican democracy has never been pure here or anywhere, however, there is due process for BP or any other industry by filing a lawsuit challenging a presidential order. I think he let BP off the hook. It'll probably take 10x that amount to attempt to clean up the damage from the spill.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3280647
BP AGREED to pay it. If they folded like a tent in a hurricane that doesn't make it unconstitutional. Probably a good PR move, they are going to have to pay the money anyway. They are also supporters of Obama and I am sure wanted to throw him something to make it look like he actually did something.
Last time I checked organized crime was illegal. (unless of course it us the democrat party making someone an offer they couldn't refuse)
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
So you rail on Obama for not getting involved with the spill and making BP responsible for the damage, but when he does get tough with them, and forces them to 'pay up', you play the "Obama The Socialist" card? Like I said before, "Damned if you do, damned if you don't".
 
scottnlisa

scottnlisa

Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3280665
So you rail on Obama for not getting involved with the spill and making BP responsible for the damage, but when he does get tough with them, and forces them to 'pay up', you play the "Obama The Socialist" card? Like I said before, "Damned if you do, damned if you don't".
Exactly, Obama gets tore up and down for letting BP manage the clean up and in the same breath gets tore up and down for making BP pay. You know, I would really like to know is it because Obama is black or a democrat. I agree with my professor at college today that it's because he's black. I would rather be a democrat then a racist sore loser republican.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3280665
So you rail on Obama for not getting involved with the spill and making BP responsible for the damage, but when he does get tough with them, and forces them to 'pay up', you play the "Obama The Socialist" card? Like I said before, "Damned if you do, damned if you don't".
I really don't have a problem with Obama jawboning them into setting up the fund. I think they are nuts if they set up a fund to pay the unemployed rig crews due to the drilling ban. It isn't BP's fault our government regulations weren't properly enforced and may have been inadequate.
 
fishtaco

fishtaco

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3280720
I really don't have a problem with Obama jawboning them into setting up the fund. I think they are nuts if they set up a fund to pay the unemployed rig crews due to the drilling ban. It isn't BP's fault our government regulations weren't properly enforced and may have been inadequate.
That is a load of BS Reef and you know it, with or without regulations, BP and other oil companies owe it to everyone on this planet to drill safely and they do not do the right thing because they are motivated by greed. The lack of regulations meant they could have drilled a relief well to be completely safe and still made money.
Fishtaco
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by scottnlisa
http:///forum/post/3280671
Exactly, Obama gets tore up and down for letting BP manage the clean up and in the same breath gets tore up and down for making BP pay. You know, I would really like to know is it because Obama is black or a democrat. I agree with my professor at college today that it's because he's black. I would rather be a democrat then a racist sore loser republican.
I guess when the facts are all stacked against you all you have left to do is name calling.
I opposed Obama because when he ran for the state senate he expressed support for a all out ban on handguns, sale or ownership in a candidate survey. He claimed he never supported a ban nor saw the survey and got caught lying about it when a second copy of the survey was found with his own handwriting on it. The director of the organization also said he never disputed anything in the survey during their live interview with him
I opposed Obama because he voted against a law that would have prohibited giving good time to those convicted of molesting children
I opposed Obama because he voted against a law that would have allowed children as young as 16 to be tried as an adult if they were accused of a violent crime connected with gang activity.
I opposed Obama because as a member of the US senate he voted against a law that would have made it a federal crime for an unrelated adult to take a minor child across state lines for an abortion if it was to avoid her state's parental involvement laws.
When it was looking like Rudy V. Obama I figured I would vote for the Unity 08 ticket because there wasn't a lot of difference between to two men, at least according to the media who were selling Obama as a centrist Democrat. First day I did my own research on Obama I found the 4 items I listed obove and knew I didn't want to see him elected. I think those are pretty reasonable issues to make my assessment on.
So what in Obama's legislative record made you a supporter? He only authored one bill in the US senate and those he did in the Illinois legislature where all handed to him by the senate president who was helping him pad his resume for his US senate run. Not much of a record to run on.
Maybe you and your professor just voted for him because he is Black. So who is the racist?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3280721
That is a load of BS Reef and you know it, with or without regulations, BP and other oil companies owe it to everyone on this planet to drill safely and they do not do the right thing because they are motivated by greed. The lack of regulations meant they could have drilled a relief well to be completely safe and still made money.
Fishtaco
There isn't a court in the land that will make BP pay those rig crews if they decide not to do it. At first I thought it was a good PR move but they are getting beat up anyway so why bother? Obama claims the "experts' all supported a temporary ban but now they are saying not only didn't the support it, they think it's a bad idea, leaving partially drilled wells idle is not worth the risk.. BP is a symptom of a problem that requires a review but it also needs to be an honest review. Did you happen to see the make up of the "panel" Obama appointed to study deepwater drilling?

I'd like to think all these companies do what's right instead of what's legal but fat chance. I grew up in an oil field and saw what the SOB that owned the company my Dad worked for did. Even if BP did cut corners it was the bad inspection process and potentially weak regs that make the review necessary and shutting down the rigs may or may not be a smart idea, I sure don't think it takes 90 days to figure out if their drilling methods are safe or not. If some wells are being drilled with the better casing method and has done all the proper tests they should green light them.
 
fishtaco

fishtaco

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3280725
There isn't a court in the land that will make BP pay those rig crews if they decide not to do it. At first I thought it was a good PR move but they are getting beat up anyway so why bother? Obama claims the "experts' all supported a temporary ban but now they are saying not only didn't the support it, they think it's a bad idea, leaving partially drilled wells idle is not worth the risk.. BP is a symptom of a problem that requires a review but it also needs to be an honest review. Did you happen to see the make up of the "panel" Obama appointed to study deepwater drilling?

I'd like to think all these companies do what's right instead of what's legal but fat chance. I grew up in an oil field and saw what the SOB that owned the company my Dad worked for did. Even if BP did cut corners it was the bad inspection process and potentially weak regs that make the review necessary and shutting down the rigs may or may not be a smart idea, I sure don't think it takes 90 days to figure out if their drilling methods are safe or not. If some wells are being drilled with the better casing method and has done all the proper tests they should green light them.
Yeah, I know the regulation process is screwed up too, but I have a hard time getting my mind around how anyone could be in charge of something like this and not do their very best to ensure safety when the risks are so great. I guesss I am not cut out to be a corporate criminal or work for a government inspection agency.
Fishtaco
 
scottnlisa

scottnlisa

Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3280723
I guess when the facts are all stacked against you all you have left to do is name calling.
I opposed Obama because when he ran for the state senate he expressed support for a all out ban on handguns, sale or ownership in a candidate survey. He claimed he never supported a ban nor saw the survey and got caught lying about it when a second copy of the survey was found with his own handwriting on it. The director of the organization also said he never disputed anything in the survey during their live interview with him
I opposed Obama because he voted against a law that would have prohibited giving good time to those convicted of molesting children
I opposed Obama because he voted against a law that would have allowed children as young as 16 to be tried as an adult if they were accused of a violent crime connected with gang activity.
I opposed Obama because as a member of the US senate he voted against a law that would have made it a federal crime for an unrelated adult to take a minor child across state lines for an abortion if it was to avoid her state's parental involvement laws.
When it was looking like Rudy V. Obama I figured I would vote for the Unity 08 ticket because there wasn't a lot of difference between to two men, at least according to the media who were selling Obama as a centrist Democrat. First day I did my own research on Obama I found the 4 items I listed obove and knew I didn't want to see him elected. I think those are pretty reasonable issues to make my assessment on.
So what in Obama's legislative record made you a supporter? He only authored one bill in the US senate and those he did in the Illinois legislature where all handed to him by the senate president who was helping him pad his resume for his US senate run. Not much of a record to run on.
Maybe you and your professor just voted for him because he is Black. So who is the racist?
I voted for Obama because he was the least of 2 evils. No politician does good for American. That means Republican or Democrat or green party or alien or green tea party. Every politician is crooked and lies out their $%^. I don't agree with somethings Obama has done but I didn't bash Bush during his 8 years of presidency. Right now Republicans are a bunch of sore losers because they lost the election. You republicans are throwing a temper tanchrun like a little baby. Grow up. Everybody has opinions but Obama doesn't deserve to be drilled left and right every single time he does something. But that is the republican way, so you republicans put your purses away and grow up.
 
scottnlisa

scottnlisa

Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3280725
There isn't a court in the land that will make BP pay those rig crews if they decide not to do it. At first I thought it was a good PR move but they are getting beat up anyway so why bother? Obama claims the "experts' all supported a temporary ban but now they are saying not only didn't the support it, they think it's a bad idea, leaving partially drilled wells idle is not worth the risk.. BP is a symptom of a problem that requires a review but it also needs to be an honest review. Did you happen to see the make up of the "panel" Obama appointed to study deepwater drilling?

I'd like to think all these companies do what's right instead of what's legal but fat chance. I grew up in an oil field and saw what the SOB that owned the company my Dad worked for did. Even if BP did cut corners it was the bad inspection process and potentially weak regs that make the review necessary and shutting down the rigs may or may not be a smart idea, I sure don't think it takes 90 days to figure out if their drilling methods are safe or not. If some wells are being drilled with the better casing method and has done all the proper tests they should green light them.
You republicans wanted this DRILL BABY DRILL. Now you at ya'll, crying and whining that Obama isn't doing anything about the spill. You wanted this. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Typical republican attitude suiting the situation to benefit your beliefs.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3280801
Yeah, I know the regulation process is screwed up too, but I have a hard time getting my mind around how anyone could be in charge of something like this and not do their very best to ensure safety when the risks are so great. I guesss I am not cut out to be a corporate criminal or work for a government inspection agency.
Fishtaco

If you do the same things every time you drill a well and the thousands of dollars worth of safety equipment you added to prevent damage caused by situation A happening and situation A never happens it's pretty easy to fall into the trap of thinking that extra equipment isn't needed. That is why we need regulations.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by scottnlisa
http:///forum/post/3280829
You republicans wanted this DRILL BABY DRILL. Now you at ya'll, crying and whining that Obama isn't doing anything about the spill. You wanted this. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Typical republican attitude suiting the situation to benefit your beliefs.
Not a Republican but.....
Obama should be working the clean up, not the leak. Government has the resources and experience to clean up the oil. Diverting BP from their most important task at hand, plugging the well, is a stupid move. I am talking more about Congress than Obama there BUT Obama has been doing it too. As I said upthread I dont have an issue with getting BP to set up that fund. It take one more less important task away from BP and give certainty to those affected by the spill.
Shutting down all existing deepwater drilling while a panel of environmentalists, Global warming theorists and a few others, none with ANY drilling knowledge or experience reviews the regulations is a joke. They should be reviewed but people who actually know something about drilling told the president there are serious risks associated with leaving partially drilled wells sitting idle, contrary to what Obama told the nation when he stated all the experts he spoke with supported the moratorium.
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3280856
Federal judge just threw out Obama's drilling ban. Didn't figure that happening.
LOL...I just heard that on the radio at lunch....of course they stated the White House will appeal the decision
 
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