Got a Hippo today. Wedged under rock

[beth]

Cam78, using copper treatment is a long process. And ich will have the appearance of going when really it has not, so don't think that ich is gone just because you stop seeing spots.
Myself, I prefer hyposalinity. Much safer for fish, and equally as reliable as any copper.

 

[mjm889]

i thought copper should be at .15 ppm isnt .3 ppm a little high i just dont want the little guy to od

 

[tangs rule]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjm889 http:///forum/thread/383931/got-a-hippo-from-this-site-today-wedged-under-rock/60#post_3364237
i thought copper should be at .15 ppm isnt .3 ppm a little high i just dont want the little guy to od
I think you are referring to "Cupramine" which is ionic copper...it treats at a MUCH lower value....(like 10%)
Coppersafe (chleated or buffered) treats at 1.5 ppm and this is the minimum that I'll run in treatment IME....anything below that allows some re-generation of the parasite.....Hippos are more difficult to treat as they sleep & hide on their side (usually) and since the parasites regenerate from the bottom of a bare tank, the process is very hard to stop....
2-3 ppm can be handeled by blue tangs for 2 weeks - as long as they eat. 4ppm is only safe for a few days, and in severe cases of ich and/or velvet, I've gone above this and approched 5ppm but only for 1-2 days, and then it must come back down to prevent liver damage..
I've much more experience with coppersafe, and combining it with formalin, in the most severe parasitic infestations. Not so much exp. with cupramine..
Hypo is an excellent treatment too, esp when combined with copper or used alone - but it requires absolute accurate salt readings, and one can never change too much too fast....it takes a couple days (1+) to get down to 1.009sg....but it takes almost a week to get back up to 1.023+......going up is really hard on them, cause their systems gotta get used to producing the necessary fresh water they use in ever higher & higher salinities...and u go up too fast, you will killl them faster than the parasite. Just my exp.

 

[mjm889]

i always did copper because i only had fish only tanks, copper work good as long as you dont abuse it, never tried hypo

 

[beth]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjm889 http:///forum/thread/383931/got-a-hippo-from-this-site-today-wedged-under-rock/60#post_3364386
i always did copper because i only had fish only tanks, copper work good as long as you dont abuse it, never tried hypo
If you're saying that you dosed your FO with copper, that really is not a good option. Copper will effect you bio-filter considerably, and, because it is not so easy to remove from the tank, that contamination could be long-term.
Hypo, however, would work well on a FO tank.

 

[cam78]

I would like to do Hypo but I got concerned with the salt level not being accurate enough, even though I have a refractometer. My other concern is the ph levels that I hear get out of wack. With my work schedule and kids, along with my display tank I didn't want to take the chance of not having time or experience with the hypo and screwing it up. At least with the copper its kinda set it and forget it. SORT OF. Don't attack me because I said that.

 

[srfisher17]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///forum/thread/383931/got-a-hippo-today-wedged-under-rock/60#post_3364404
If you're saying that you dosed your FO with copper, that really is not a good option. Copper will effect you bio-filter considerably, and, because it is not so easy to remove from the tank, that contamination could be long-term.
Hypo, however, would work well on a FO tank.
I hate to slightly disagree with Beth. I have found her information to be extremely valuable and correct; ever since relocating and taking a more "researched', rather than "trial & error" approach to our hobby/addiction. However, I do not think Cupramine copper will do significant damage to your bio-filter. Cuprimine's manufacturer, SeaChem told me basically, "it will do some damage to the bio-filter, but no a major wipe-out". I've found SeaChem's tech support to be excellent on several topics, in spite of their obvious desire to defend their products. I (I know the contraversy) treat all new fish with Cupramine and a de-wormer upon arrival in QT. On several occasions since relocating, I have had enough new fish in QT to be considered "over stocked" in my 55, well cycled QT. I have never been able to measure any significant increase in ammonia, in spite if the Cupramine present. Sometimes a minor spike after introduction, then normal the next day, showing that the aerobic bacteria are reproducing normally. I have also found Cupramine very easy to remove, assuming no LR or other porous material is present. SeaChem Cuprisorb works better & faster than carbon and can be regenerated. If copper stresses fish more than hypo, I haven't seen it. However, I suspect that may be true. What I do know, is that copper stresses ME less. This will drive some folks nuts; but my fish's main function is to make me happy. Of course, when they're healthy & thriving---that makes me very happy!
EDIT: After re-reading, I see I was referring to a QT and Beth a FO tank---with substrate and rock, etc. My comments apply only to tanks without porous stuff, like substrate, rock, skeletal coral, who knows what else..

 

[cam78]

He ate a few pieces of Brine last night. Was not too excited about it though. Same away from his corner ate a couple then returned to his corner. He sits in the corner all day and night. Is it because he is sick or scared? Or both? Wouldn't the coppersafe have taken care of anything by now? Shouldn't it be feeling better?

 

[beth]

You are supposed to keep an eye on copper levels as well to maintain therapeutic dose and, also, check ammonia and nitrite regularly due to hit on bio-filter. This is just as much work as keeping an eye on salinity levels and pH.
SRfisher, I didn't say that copper would wipe out the bio-filter, though it can do that. I said that it would effect it, and that copper will stay in the tank indefinitely.
Just my opinion and advise, for whatever it is worth.

 

[cam78]

It ate Mysis tonight which is awesome! Seemed real weak. Couldn't even swallow larger Mysis. Was going after all smaller pieces. Tomorrow I will put zoecon on it to give him good nutritian. Still sits in corner, but at least he is eating!!

 

[mjm889]

thats great that he is eating, how is he today, make sure you give him food with vitamins in it to help boost his immune system, keep us posted

 

[cam78]

Yup, giving him Mysis with Zoecon soak. He seems to be doing a lot better with his eating but is pretty lazy otherwise. Still most of the time sits in the corner. His spots are gone but has some blotches of faint white spots. Larger though, not ich sized. I am considering using medication that was recommended by a LFS here for maybe the last week in my QT. He said it is stronger but will not harm the fish. He said it will DEFINITELY rid the fish of any parasite. Cupramine, thats the name. I might use it for a short period.

 

[hawkfish203]

I wouldn't mix the two there two different types of copper meds. Which may need different test kits also. Larger spots can be caused by poor water conditions or maybe you have too much copper in the tank already (toxic lvl). I would make sure your using the right test kit. Maybe run some carbon and see if you can get rid of some of the copper if it's too high and see if that helps.

 

[cam78]

The Coppersafe does not require copper tests it says. I have not tested for it because it says it is unnecessary.

 

[hawkfish203]

Not sure where u heard that but, I would test it to be sure it is copper and should be maintained at a lvl of 1.5-2.0ppm. And by what your telling me it sounds like the is there is a toxin in the water causing the blotches in turn I would say it could be caused by to high copper lvl. Here is what coppersafe reads "A chelated or total copper test kit is required to measure CopperSafe. Coppersafe may cause inaccurate free copper readings when using certain test kits. All readings should be based on the total copper or chelated copper results and not the free copper results."

 

[cam78]

Hmm. Interesting. Well Im going to stop adding the coppersafe and just keep doing water changes with clean water. Im gonna see if I see any spots over the next week or so. I think it is doing well.

 

[mjm889]

i would check you ammonia and nitrate as well

 

[hawkfish203]

Good to hear!