government ran health care, the results...

[fishtaco]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/3220534
I feel for everyone stuck in this.
There are many things draining money from consumers and CEO salary is just a drop in the bucket. I'm not making an opinion on CEO salaries, I'm just saying that i think there are lots of things to fix that will have a better return. I hear you griping about how the bill did not pass and CEO salaries are out of control.
Can you show me in the Senate or House version of the bill where CEO salaries would be reduced? In my opinion CEO salaries would have gone even higher with these bills because the bills would have increased insurance company profits.
What I'm adverse to is something I keep seeing over and over. There are a lot of people that don't really care about improving medical insurance, they just want someone ELSE to pay for it. Passing bills that forces someone else to pay for part of your medical insurance isn't lowering any costs, it's trying to drain the pool by pulling water from the shallow end and dumping it into the deep end.
How much do you think is fair to pay for health insurance? I pay over 300 dollars a month and the first 5000 dollars of bills for the year come out of my own pocket. Like I said, I have to source my own insurance and will be forced more than likely in the next few years to take a job again in the public sector for the sole purpose of finding more affordable insurance and displacing someone else who might need it a whole lot worse than I do. I have seen so many people around that are having a fit about the current "Socialist" government, yet seem fine to trust their fate to insurance companies CEO's whose only goal in life is to get as rich as possible off your hard work.
I don't want to get insurance for free or heaven forbid make a wealthy 1% percenter pay a dime of my tab, what I want is to stop being ripped off by these people and financing there lifestyles and not have a choice in the matter.
Fishtaco

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3220542
How much do you think is fair to pay for health insurance? I pay over 300 dollars a month and the first 5000 dollars of bills for the year come out of my own pocket. Like I said, I have to source my own insurance and will be forced more than likely in the next few years to take a job again in the public sector for the sole purpose of finding more affordable insurance and displacing someone else who might need it a whole lot worse than I do. I have seen so many people around that are having a fit about the current "Socialist" government, yet seem fine to trust their fate to insurance companies CEO's whose only goal in life is to get as rich as possible off your hard work.
I don't want to get insurance for free or heaven forbid make a wealthy 1% percenter pay a dime of my tab, what I want is to stop being ripped off by these people and financing there lifestyles and not have a choice in the matter.
Fishtaco
I believe the medical insurance system needs to be improved. I also believe the medical billing policies also need to be improved. I think we're on the same page for what we want to see, we just differ on how to get there.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/3220534
I feel for everyone stuck in this.
There are many things draining money from consumers and CEO salary is just a drop in the bucket. I'm not making an opinion on CEO salaries, I'm just saying that i think there are lots of things to fix that will have a better return. I hear you griping about how the bill did not pass and CEO salaries are out of control.
Can you show me in the Senate or House version of the bill where CEO salaries would be reduced? In my opinion CEO salaries would have gone even higher with these bills because the bills would have increased insurance company profits.
What I'm adverse to is something I keep seeing over and over. There are a lot of people that don't really care about improving medical insurance, they just want someone ELSE to pay for it. Passing bills that forces someone else to pay for part of your medical insurance isn't lowering any costs, it's trying to drain the pool by pulling water from the shallow end and dumping it into the deep end.
I guess I need to read the latest Senate and House bills regarding health reform. Everytime I've heard Obama talk about healthcare reform, he's always said he wants to provide the American people the opportunity to BUY health insurance that is affordable, and equal to what the government employees pay for today. I mean, don't the military, Civil Service, and Federal Government employees have to pay something for their insurance for themselves and their dependents? Do they get the healthcare for free? As fishtaco said, I'm not looking for a free handout. I just want to have insurance that's affordable, and healthcare that I don't have to worry about using my entire savings and retirement funds because of some major medical problem.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3220572
I guess I need to read the latest Senate and House bills regarding health reform. Everytime I've heard Obama talk about healthcare reform, he's always said he wants to provide the American people the opportunity to BUY health insurance that is affordable, and equal to what the government employees pay for today. I mean, don't the military, Civil Service, and Federal Government employees have to pay something for their insurance for themselves and their dependents? Do they get the healthcare for free? As fishtaco said, I'm not looking for a free handout. I just want to have insurance that's affordable, and healthcare that I don't have to worry about using my entire savings and retirement funds because of some major medical problem.
And you believed him

EVERY bill I saw come out of Congress had NOTHING that would have changed their health plan or given us the chance to join theirs.

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3220572
I guess I need to read the latest Senate and House bills regarding health reform. Everytime I've heard Obama talk about healthcare reform, he's always said he wants to provide the American people the opportunity to BUY health insurance that is affordable, and equal to what the government employees pay for today. I mean, don't the military, Civil Service, and Federal Government employees have to pay something for their insurance for themselves and their dependents? Do they get the healthcare for free? As fishtaco said, I'm not looking for a free handout. I just want to have insurance that's affordable, and healthcare that I don't have to worry about using my entire savings and retirement funds because of some major medical problem.
And still my question is "what part of the House or Senate Bill were you looking at that would provide you with the relief you are seeking?" I think the silver bullet to fix the system doesn't exist. I think the current system of medical insurance will stop being effective fairly soon so I agree it needs to change.

 

[reefraff]

This may come as a shock but the states require different levels of coverage for health insurance. One may require reproductive health issues such as fertilization treatments be covered where another doesn't. In addition to expanding the risk pool buying across state lines would allow you to pick a plan that best suites your needs. Kind of like auto insurance is, you can pick different levels of coverage and such.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3220542
How much do you think is fair to pay for health insurance? I pay over 300 dollars a month and the first 5000 dollars of bills for the year come out of my own pocket. Like I said, I have to source my own insurance and will be forced more than likely in the next few years to take a job again in the public sector for the sole purpose of finding more affordable insurance and displacing someone else who might need it a whole lot worse than I do. I have seen so many people around that are having a fit about the current "Socialist" government, yet seem fine to trust their fate to insurance companies CEO's whose only goal in life is to get as rich as possible off your hard work.
I don't want to get insurance for free or heaven forbid make a wealthy 1% percenter pay a dime of my tab, what I want is to stop being ripped off by these people and financing there lifestyles and not have a choice in the matter.
Fishtaco
Drop insurance and pay for your medical needs out of pocket.
A good deal if you are fairly healthy and not accident prone. Limbaugh has talked about this and I know of others who have done it. I had an ER visit a few years ago. There was a mix up and they thought I was uninsured. The bill was over 2 grand initially, about 3 hours there on a monitor for a skipping heart beat, NO CARDIOLOGIST CALLED IN, just the doc on call. Once the insurance was refused and they thought I didn't have coverage they dropped the bill to about 450.00 Now why do you suppose they pad their insurable treatments so much? Who are the real bad guys, the insurance company that paid out the I think the total was over 2300.00 or the hospital that billed them for that when they would have accepted about 450 from me. I should have paid them out of pocket and split the difference with the insurance co

 

[vinnyraptor]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3220589
Drop insurance and pay for your medical needs out of pocket.
A good deal if you are fairly healthy and not accident prone. Limbaugh has talked about this and I know of others who have done it. I had an ER visit a few years ago. There was a mix up and they thought I was uninsured. The bill was over 2 grand initially, about 3 hours there on a monitor for a skipping heart beat, NO CARDIOLOGIST CALLED IN, just the doc on call. Once the insurance was refused and they thought I didn't have coverage they dropped the bill to about 450.00 Now why do you suppose they pad their insurable treatments so much? Who are the real bad guys, the insurance company that paid out the I think the total was over 2300.00 or the hospital that billed them for that when they would have accepted about 450 from me. I should have paid them out of pocket and split the difference with the insurance co

but what would you do if there was a problem and you really didnt have insurance? what if you needed surgery? what if you needed a procedure that cost 50,000 +?

 

[cranberry]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3220589
Now why do you suppose they pad their insurable treatments so much?
We all pay for those that run from their bills.
If they are in it for profit, it sounds about right. We pay 5 times the wholesalers prices for our fish. 450 x 5.... sounds about right.

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by VinnyRaptor
http:///forum/post/3220594
but what would you do if there was a problem and you really didnt have insurance? what if you needed surgery? what if you needed a procedure that cost 50,000 +?

Then $300 a month begins to sound like an excellent investment.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by VinnyRaptor
http:///forum/post/3220594
but what would you do if there was a problem and you really didnt have insurance? what if you needed surgery? what if you needed a procedure that cost 50,000 +?
Let's see, 500.00 per month x 12 months = $6,000.00. Still not looking too good. So 1 surgical procedure just ate over 8 years of premiums, and that is assuming there were no other medial treatments required over that 8.33 years. So tell me again what a bad deal health insurance is for sick people?

 

[fishtaco]

So my best bet is just not to have any health insurance? Again I am looking at losing everything I have worked for my whole life because of the price of medical care if there is a serious problem. I do already pay for any minor health needs myself and my insurance is strictly in case of a major health problem. I've worked hard, have zero bills except my

[hr]
and everyday things like power and car insurance, basically done everything right financially my entire life and the reward I get is either go broke paying the health insurance companies or go broke paying trying to pay health bills myself. Those are some great options.

I guess this is an example of how great of country we have here where anything is possible if you work hard enough.
Excuse my socialist leanings here, but can't we just have group plans that are basically non-profit, pay a reasonable wage to the people running it and any profits are payed back to the group or used to lower rates.
Fishtaco

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3220616
Excuse my socialist leanings here, but can't we just have group plans that are basically non-profit, pay a reasonable wage to the people running it and any profits are payed back to the group or used to lower rates.
I can't think of anything stopping this. It needs to be large enough to obtain good group rates.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/3220624
I can't think of anything stopping this. It needs to be large enough to obtain good group rates.
What about the general population of the US? Is that group big enough for you? But when you talk about every US citizen, you immediately think 'socialized medicine' in the context of it being run by the government. You want the plan that Obama initially discussed, you just don't want the Federal Government maintaining or running it.

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3220657
What about the general population of the US? Is that group big enough for you? But when you talk about every US citizen, you immediately think 'socialized medicine' in the context of it being run by the government. You want the plan that Obama initially discussed, you just don't want the Federal Government maintaining or running it.

I don't think I have ever used the term 'socialized medicine' so I'm not sure where you got that from.
I think some thoughtful effort should be expended to try and improve the current system before it is scrapped and given to the government to take over.

 

[darthtang aw]

I want those that keep screaming about affordable health insurance to list an actual cost. What you believe is fair to pay and the coverage it will provide at that cost.....I have never seen one person here do tis...they just complain about current cost and coverage....so...what in you mind is a fair cost and what would be covered...start there...then we can create a bill...as it sits now none of the reform talked about ever sets a specific goal....

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3220529
Yeah, cry me a river for the poor CEO of a health insurance company who might be forced to take a measly 10 million a year in wages instead of the 50 million or more the current CEO of my health insurance company makes. Again, why should I be forced to pay more and more for my health insurance, to finance upper managements 4th home in Costa Rica?
Fishtaco
No CEO for ANY health insurance company has a base salary above 1.5 million....the rest of the money they make each year come from stock and investments....do some research. Most have a base salary under 500,000 dollars...
Total earnings from the TOP CEO was registered at around 23 million....stop making up figures.
who is your healthcare ran through? a foreign company?

 

[fishtaco]

Oh noes Darth, you share first, tell us what you pay and what you think would be a fair amount to pay every month. I think the 350 dollars or whatever the lastest jump was would be okay to pay if it stayed there for a few years and my large first co-pay was gone and I got what I actually payed for with none of the funny business that goes on when you actually expect them to pay. I would be fine with this just covering basic need to stay healthy stuff, I don't think insurance should be used to cover plastic surgery or gastric by-pass surgery. I also think the use of prescription happy

[hr]
needs to be looked at because of the abuse I currently see. The problem is that even if we overhaul everything, the insurance companies are still going to take every dime they can and gleefully run their corporate death panels to deny coverage at every opportunity just so these CEO's that you conservatives seem to like so much can make an extra 10 million in bonus money. Lack of morality has everything to do with this issue IMHO, I thought you conservative types where supposed to be the ones with values? I guess though I can look forward to when the GOP regains power, they are going to solve all these problems and we can all look forward to good affordable health insurance. LOL

Fishtaco (Still pissy over my insurance increase.)

 

[fishtaco]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3220677
No CEO for ANY health insurance company has a base salary above 1.5 million....the rest of the money they make each year come from stock and investments....do some research. Most have a base salary under 500,000 dollars...
Total earnings from the TOP CEO was registered at around 23 million....stop making up figures.
who is your healthcare ran through? a foreign company?
Sorry Darth, go ahead and pat yourself on the back for being the lead elephant around here and able to swat down non-conservatives at will, but the actual non-political swayed facts here is that United Health Care CEO William McGuire who runs my health insurance company made 124 million in pay and bennies. Sure, this meager salary had absolutely nothing to do with why the cost of my health care went up and it's all Obama's fault.
I'm sure he is worth every penny too. How's that trickle down effect working Darth, feels more like the super wealthy emptying their chamber pots on everyone else to me, but feel free to keep defending them.
Fishtaco

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3220690
Sorry Darth, go ahead and pat yourself on the back for being the lead elephant around here and able to swat down non-conservatives at will, but the actual non-political swayed facts here is that United Health Care CEO William McGuire who runs my health insurance company made 124 million in pay and bennies. Sure, this meager salary had absolutely nothing to do with why the cost of my health care went up and it's all Obama's fault.
I'm sure he is worth every penny too. How's that trickle down effect working Darth, feels more like the super wealthy emptying their chamber pots on everyone else to me, but feel free to keep defending them.
Fishtaco
Glad you are really on top of things....
William McGuire is the FORMER CEO of united health group inc. He hasn't worked for them since 2006. His base salary was 2.5 million dollars a year, his bonus was around 5-6 million....he made that much money you are claiming over the course of 15 years through stocks and investments....
Sometimes it pays to pay attention to the lead elephant. You will notice when I gave numbers on what ceos of health companbies get paid I didn't give an opinion about them....Just stated fact....When I do that, I am giving facts and not stating my opinion these are the "non-politically swayed" (i believe that is how you put it) facts...
Your facts are WRONG. Not that it will change your opinion...