Grocery store strikers=children

giarc

New Member
then go back and read it because the reference you're citing is from when God talks about us helping the poor by being generous from what we earn, not protesting things that seem unfair. as a matter of fact, there are plenty of references where even slaves themselves are told to obey their masters and taxpayers to pay the tax collectors without grumbling because in the end God will do justice.
"Do not deny justice to your poor people in their lawsuits." Exodus 23:6
"Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly." Leviticus 19:15
"If one of your countrymen becomes poor and sells some of his property, his nearest relative is to come and redeem what his countryman has sold. . . . If one of your countrymen becomes poor and is unable to support himself among you, help him as you would an alien or a temporary resident, so he can continue to live among you. . . . If one of your countrymen becomes poor among you and sells himself to you, do not make him work as a slave." Leviticus 25:25, 35, 39
"However, there should be no poor among you, for in the land the LORD your God is giving you to possess as your inheritance, he will richly bless you." Deuteronomy 15:4
"If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother." Deuteronomy 15:7
"Do not take advantage of a hired man who is poor and needy, whether he is a brother Israelite or an alien living in one of your towns." Deuteronomy 24:14
"'Cursed is the man who withholds justice from the alien, the fatherless or the widow.' Then all the people shall say, Amen!'" Deuteronomy 27:19
" Because of the oppression of the weak and the groaning of the needy, I will now arise, says the LORD, I will protect them from those who malign them. " Psalm 12:5
"My whole being will exclaim, Who is like you, 0 LORD? You rescue the poor from those too strong for them, the poor and needy from those who rob them.'" Psalm 35:10
"For he will deliver the needy who cry out, the afflicted who have no one to help. He will take pity on the weak and the needy and save the needy from death." Psalm 72:12-13
"He who mocks the poor shows contempt for their Maker; whoever gloats over disaster will not go unpunished." Proverbs 17:5
"If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered." Proverbs 21:13
"Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy." Proverbs 31:9
"(They) have grown fat and sleek. Their evil deeds have no limit; they do not plead the case of the fatherless to win it, they do not defend the rights of the poor." Jeremiah 5:28
"Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, 'Here's a good seat for you,' but say to the poor man, You stand there' or Sit on the floor by my feet,' have you not discriminated among yourselves and becomes judges with evil thoughts? Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court?" James 2:2-6
Funny, in all these God doesn't seem to share your view that the poor should keep quiet, or that those of us who hear their cry should tell them off for complaining. Seems to me that God has an interest in justice for the poor. Justice. Fairness. Compassion.
I agree we ought to help the poor from our wealth. But I also think we must ensure justice for the poor so that they can live equitably without our charity. In other words, if highly paid lawyers are given healthcare when they can easily afford it themselves, then a Christian perspective should argue that healthcare is even more imperative for the poor as a matter of conscience.
 

purity

Member
Originally posted by Giarc
Least we agree on soimething Purity :)

what can i say. we're rockstars!
Originally posted by Giarc
How much have you managed to save while working for minimum wage plus paying for your own health care, Purity?

only made minimum wage for a short time cause the goal is to always strive to excel. and after that i got into real estate, made $0 in the first 6 months and got by working 5:30-1 am as a night courier under the table.
Originally posted by Giarc
Student loans? Just paid mine off. Ever hear of entry requirements for university Purity?

elaborate please.
Originally posted by Giarc
Ever hear of living expenses while studying? Do Student Loans cover health insurance while studying?

details. people can get by.
Originally posted by Giarc

Dedication and sacrifice? Some people dedicate and sacrifice their future to take care of their kids/elderly parents in the here and now. I guess that it's their own fault then when they end up in a low income no future job then.

no it's their decision to not get a better job. i was raised by a single mother with no money, who got her own student loans, and then started her own graphic design business while paying the bills by doing portrait artwork during nights & weekends. she was still there for me all the time.
Originally posted by Giarc

Ever hear of compassion Purity? Not everyone has choices that are easy or clear cut. Walk a mile in the other persons shoes.

already did. and no choice is clear cut when you let the obstacles cloud it and distract you.
Originally posted by Giarc

54 year old woman with lithium imbalance that results in problematic behaviour when placed under prolonged stress associated with long hours (more than 6 hrs per day). Results in severe depression. Husband left her 25 years ago because freaked out by mental illness. No savings because swindled out of what little she had by a worthless boyfriend/conartist. Has high school diploma but no long term work history for several years. No special skills. Does not qualify for student loans due to age. Children moved overseas. One lung thanks to bronchiexodud and has beginning emphysema.
So, you tell me how she can make that first million and I'll make sure she sends you 25% of it when she has it.

first i dismiss depression stuff. as far as i'm concerned, it's all crap. only recently has it been discovered that everyone's depressed. doctors diagnose left and right, then pump

[hr]
down throats to keep pharmaceutical companies happy while the consumer is given a genuine certified excuse for not being happy.
as far as her solution? find what she likes to do, start a business doing it, work nights and weekends, cut back on expenses, never give up and stay positive no matter what happens. if she fails then at least she can say she gave it her all and have a peace of mind that most people can't seem to grasp.
as far as the Bible verses. ok dude, you got me there. i=moeded. nonetheless, i don't consider these people getting paid to literally have picnics and tailgate parties too poor. yer example of the gal with one lung is more of a candidate that could use help from people with money.
 

giarc

New Member
People will get by? On what? Fresh air and sunshine? While their kids need books for school? While their landlord is banging on the door for the rent?
I too was raised by a single mother.
Depression is real. I've had it and come out the other side. Mental illness is real and I'm struggling not to cuss at your attitude about it man. Not everyone has it, but I've seen it first hand. Ever had to call the hospital at the age of 5 to get your mother's life saved after her third suicide attempt? Ever heard someone unable to make an intelligible sentence despite not drinking or doping?
Attitudes like that make me so mad I'm just gonna quit this discussion right here so I don't just start going ballistic and breaking board rules.
 

purity

Member

Originally posted by Giarc
People will get by? On what? Fresh air and sunshine? While their kids need books for school? While their landlord is banging on the door for the rent?
I too was raised by a single mother.
Depression is real. I've had it and come out the other side. Mental illness is real and I'm struggling not to cuss at your attitude about it man. Not everyone has it, but I've seen it first hand. Ever had to call the hospital at the age of 5 to get your mother's life saved after her third suicide attempt? Ever heard someone unable to make an intelligible sentence despite not drinking or doping?
Attitudes like that make me so mad I'm just gonna quit this discussion right here so I don't just start going ballistic and breaking board rules.

hey man i'm not saying that results of depression are sunshine. my heart goes out to those who's lives have been affected by loved ones taking drugs and attempting suicide, etc. but nonetheless, it's their decision. i've had plenty in my life that i loved have depression tear into their lives but they all seemed to focus all of their energy on creating problems for other people to solve. THEN once you help them they become more dependent on you and end up trying to take you down with em like crabs in a bucket. in the end, you both lose.
now i still love them but i'm not gonna help them unless they're willing to help themselves too. call it tough love if you will but that's just my way of handling it.
and even though fresh air and sunshine are nice, i'm pretty sure public schools will help our children get books. there's always solutions to everything but i can see that talking about resolving issues on the internet is making you ballistic and we don't want board rules broken. would you feel better if we continue talking about why people can't better themselves?
 

giarc

New Member
Those workers are exercising their legal right, and according the God that /you/ brought into this, their moral right, by witholding their work in order to maintain their conditions of employment. That was my point. But you had to go and misrepresent me, so fine. So maybe the schools will organise some books, who's going to pay the rent, the utilities, clothing, healthcare needs, etc? Reassuring to know that they'll just 'get by' though. Maybe you're counting on divine intervention?
I'm sick of seeing neo-conservatives using pseudo-religion/God as a smokescreen for their selfish or uncaring agendas. I replied to this thread solely to present an alternative viewpoint, and to show you and those like you that your conservative, capitalist worldview isn't any more consistent with the bible than the liberal one is IMO.
but i can see that talking about resolving issues on the internet is making you ballistic
Please don't misrepresent my reasons for getting mad. I am mad because you are dismissing the scientifically proven existence of mental illness, including depression, because you don't want to admit that some folks can't make it without help.
Attitudes like yours are the reason there is so much stigma and discrimination against the mentally ill.
Mental illness is real, measurable, and scientifically proven. Just because you wish it away won't make it any less real. Scorn the scientists all you like: more fool you. Chemical imbalances can be measured, and often treated/moderated given adequate healthcare (you know, that pesky thing that poor employees are fighting for). Do you dispute the scientific basis for those nitrate/alkalinity/calcium readings on your test kits too? Flat-earth still your bag? Sun revolves around the earth, right? :rolleyes:
My mother couldn't afford illegal drugs. Her condition is not a choice she made or the result of any choice that she made; it's a fact that she lives with. She isn't faking anything. Or if she is, she's been doing one hell of a snow job on me and my family for 30+ years. She has made a /lot/ of bad choices in her life, but that's no reason to smugly sit back and watch her life disintegrate and piously talk about 'choices' she made. If her husband hadn't left her when she was diagnosed, if she could hold a job for more than a few months before her condition reasserted itself, then maybe she would have made better choices. 'If' is one heck of a big little word. If she hadn't sacrificed in order to raise me and my two sisters...I hate to think.
However, you go ahead and distort reality and misrepresent me as you will. I'll leave it up to other readers to make their own judgement on that. For now I give up. Another bible verse is springing to mind (Matthew 7:6).
 

tony detroit

Active Member
I agree with both of you in some ways. I will say this, as long as there are cheap places to go get your groceries, nobody will shop at the store with the 4 dollar heads of lettuce. Now IMO the store with the higher prices has a better business plan and I would love to support clerks with health care and a retirement plan, but when it means paying double for the same groceries I could have gotten somewhere else half price, well you know what is going to happen. That store will surely go out of business.
Our business tries so hard to provide our employees with a good healthcare and retirement plan and to pay them very well so that they can all live very nice lives, however to keep our prices competitive because our competitors want to undercut us and pay illegal immigrants that cannot even speak english 8 dollars an hour, and not buy them healthcare they are able to undercut our cost by 25% or more. So in turn we have to lower our employees benefits if we want to stay in business. We do not like doing this, but if we want to stay in business we must. I am sure there is a reason the grocery store is taking away benefits, most likely cost vs. profit margins. It would be nice to provide the employees with healthcare and a 401K plan and tuition reimbursement, but like I said before their costs will be so high, people will not shop there.
In ending, I seriously blame almost 100% of this problem on our government, our greedy, wasting government, that within some time, maybe not in my lifetime, but possibly my lifetime, will fall, this country will fall, and there will be no industry and no "american dream". There will be a revolution, you can be sure of that.
I really wonder about having kids sometime. It is almost like putting them in a bad place purposely. You KNOW the end of this country is going to happen, you just don't know when. Politics are slowly ruining this country along with many other government programs.
 

purity

Member

Originally posted by Giarc
Those workers are exercising their legal right, and according the God that /you/ brought into this, their moral right, by witholding their work in order to maintain their conditions of employment. That was my point.

great. and you saw what my point was right when you opened this thread. and even though you did point out correct verses in the Bible to not persecute the poor's case, i drew out a long time ago how these people are not poor but are stuck with an additional bill of an averaged $200/month. then you go and draw out cases of 1 out of 100 of starving college students and people with severe depression cases. although these are harder to resolve, they are still resolvable and they account for about 5% of people walking around with signs out there.
Originally posted by Giarc
But you had to go and misrepresent me, so fine. So maybe the schools will organise some books, who's going to pay the rent, the utilities, clothing, healthcare needs, etc? Reassuring to know that they'll just 'get by' though. Maybe you're counting on divine intervention?

you show me one single spot where i misrepresented you. you used extremes for your examples so i hit you at yer own game and did the same.
now you want me to explain how they are to pay for rent, utilities, and everything else??? geez why don't we just bust out a fannie mae income/liability chart, see the numbers, and correct em.
Originally posted by Giarc

I'm sick of seeing neo-conservatives using pseudo-religion/God as a smokescreen for their selfish or uncaring agendas. I replied to this thread solely to present an alternative viewpoint, and to show you and those like you that your conservative, capitalist worldview isn't any more consistent with the bible than the liberal one is IMO.

i didn't smokescreen anything. there are plenty of verses where Jesus and Paul both advise jews and gentiles to submit to their masters. just because you successfully showed the other side of the coin (where as the rest of us should not further persecute the poor) doesn't mean that i smokescreened in my arguement. and i'm a little curious as to how many of these picketers are actually in the same degree of poverty that the street beggers are that referenced in the Bible...
Originally posted by Giarc

Please don't misrepresent my reasons for getting mad. I am mad because you are dismissing the scientifically proven existence of mental illness, including depression, because you don't want to admit that some folks can't make it without help.
Attitudes like yours are the reason there is so much stigma and discrimination against the mentally ill.
Mental illness is real, measurable, and scientifically proven. Just because you wish it away won't make it any less real. Scorn the scientists all you like: more fool you. Chemical imbalances can be measured, and often treated/moderated given adequate healthcare (you know, that pesky thing that poor employees are fighting for). Do you dispute the scientific basis for those nitrate/alkalinity/calcium readings on your test kits too? Flat-earth still your bag? Sun revolves around the earth, right? :rolleyes:
ok well i can't stop the sun revolving around the earth. and i also can't fall off the face of it by coming to the edge of it's flat shape.
but if science can prove that people can have chemical imbalances then common sense can prove that we all are still capable of making concious decisions. and if you're so incapacitated to make that decision then you probably shouldn't be working much anywayz, and be collecting disability. look at all of the people in our history who have made great social, financial, and spiritual accomplishments and take a look at the hurdles they ran into.
even though your extreme examples are pretty extreme (in terms of hardships) i'm pretty sure that there have been PLENTY out there that were FAR worse and were able overcome, not only to survive but to thrive.
Originally posted by Giarc
My mother couldn't afford illegal drugs. Her condition is not a choice she made or the result of any choice that she made; it's a fact that she lives with. She isn't faking anything. Or if she is, she's been doing one hell of a snow job on me and my family for 30+ years. She has made a /lot/ of bad choices in her life, but that's no reason to smugly sit back and watch her life disintegrate and piously talk about 'choices' she made. If her husband hadn't left her when she was diagnosed, if she could hold a job for more than a few months before her condition reasserted itself, then maybe she would have made better choices. 'If' is one heck of a big little word. If she hadn't sacrificed in order to raise me and my two sisters...I hate to think.

well didn't mean to knock on yer mom dude. you should know that there was no disrespect intended so quit taking this all personal because the issues have touched your life more than most people. you're in a public forum and don't expect everyone just to assume we know your whole life history. you chose to carry the discussion so discuss without gettin all livid.
and in regards to the decisions she made, i said it once and i'll say it again. she can't change the past but she can still do everything she can to make the best of everything she's got. no matter WHO you are or WHAT you face, that is a freedom that nobody can take away.
Originally posted by Giarc

Tony, you're such a rockstar. man, you RULE. can i have your autograph?

there. now THAT'S misrepresenting you. just because i don't respond in the way you want me to doesn't mean i misrepresent you. it just means i don't agree with you. whoa....you mean someone doesn't agree with your opinion on a discussion board?!! NO WAY! but since you're SOOOO realistic then you MUST have already understood this simple characteristic of public discussion. if you'd like, i suppose i could always scientifically prove it to you.
come to think of it, when the hell did i ever try to represent (let alone, MISrepresent) you in the first place? what am i, jerry maguire???

Originally posted by Giarc
For now I give up.

i thought you did that in the last post :notsure:
 

tony detroit

Active Member

Originally posted by Purity
Originally posted by giarc

Tony, you're such a rockstar. man, you RULE. can i have your autograph?.:

there. now THAT'S misrepresenting you. just because i don't respond in the way you want me to doesn't mean i misrepresent you. it just means i don't agree with you. whoa....you mean someone doesn't agree with your opinion on a discussion board?!! NO WAY! but since you're SOOOO realistic then you MUST have already understood this simple characteristic of public discussion. if you'd like, i suppose i could always scientifically prove it to you.:

Where was that posted at??? Was he being sarcastic? Sorry if I offended anybody, no harm intended, just stating opinions. Sorry if you took it personal
 

lovethesea

Active Member
Originally posted by Giarc

[My mother couldn't afford illegal drugs. Her condition is not a choice she made or the result of any choice that she made; it's a fact that she lives with. She isn't faking anything. Or if she is, she's been doing one hell of a snow job on me and my family for 30+ years. She has made a /lot/ of bad choices in her life, but that's no reason to smugly sit back and watch her life disintegrate and piously talk about 'choices' she made.
Jeeze Giarc, if I hadn't know any better I thought I wrote that!!
(no joke!!)
 

purity

Member

Originally posted by tony detroit
Where was that posted at??? Was he being sarcastic? Sorry if I offended anybody, no harm intended, just stating opinions. Sorry if you took it personal

my name's tony also.
 
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