K
killrbee3636
Guest
I'll try it! Thanks agian!
srfisher17
Active Member
Originally Posted by kjr_trig http:///forum/post/2745042
Please see posts 12 and 18 from the owners of BZ and SWF.com about cyanide and Indo Tusks. Seems a bit irresponsible to me to claim only Aussie Tusks are likely to live. My Indo is on his 5th month in captivity. My Indo certainly wasn't $39, try $75 and that was with a 40% weekly special.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/326183/is-this-a-hawaiian-or-indo-harly
Question, how is the flow in your system? My Tusk's behavior improved 100% when I doubled the flow in my tank after I had him for a month.
I looked for this thread, but couldn't find it. But Kirk is always on top of this stuff. I also got a delayed response from L.A. on this issue. This fish is a good example of why I only buy fish online; I can talk to people I know and trust. Knowing the origin and capture/handling practices ,makes a lot of sense, especially with Indian Ocean fish. I'm convinced that the 3 retailers mentioned here, do everything possible to avoid cyanide collected fish, but no one can monitor everything all the time. A good lfs can limit buying to wholesalers who really monitor collection; or they can buy from whomever is cheapest. It's been a long time since I suspected cyanide as the cause of a fish death and I'm not sure the fish that started this thread has been poisoned by cyanide...but it pays to do some research before buying. BTW; The Philippines seems to be the biggest cyanide offender and I've seen fish listed with the origin "Cebu"; which is an Island in the Philippines!
Please see posts 12 and 18 from the owners of BZ and SWF.com about cyanide and Indo Tusks. Seems a bit irresponsible to me to claim only Aussie Tusks are likely to live. My Indo is on his 5th month in captivity. My Indo certainly wasn't $39, try $75 and that was with a 40% weekly special.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/326183/is-this-a-hawaiian-or-indo-harly
Question, how is the flow in your system? My Tusk's behavior improved 100% when I doubled the flow in my tank after I had him for a month.
I looked for this thread, but couldn't find it. But Kirk is always on top of this stuff. I also got a delayed response from L.A. on this issue. This fish is a good example of why I only buy fish online; I can talk to people I know and trust. Knowing the origin and capture/handling practices ,makes a lot of sense, especially with Indian Ocean fish. I'm convinced that the 3 retailers mentioned here, do everything possible to avoid cyanide collected fish, but no one can monitor everything all the time. A good lfs can limit buying to wholesalers who really monitor collection; or they can buy from whomever is cheapest. It's been a long time since I suspected cyanide as the cause of a fish death and I'm not sure the fish that started this thread has been poisoned by cyanide...but it pays to do some research before buying. BTW; The Philippines seems to be the biggest cyanide offender and I've seen fish listed with the origin "Cebu"; which is an Island in the Philippines!
K
killrbee3636
Guest
Yeah, that's a shame that lfs would go for the cheapest. You would think they would want you to come back. I haven't tried to purchase fish online yet. My problem is that I work 40 min from home so I won't be there.
Not that all LFS are like that, but its an unfortunate reality and has to be tough on LFS owners.
aquaknight
Active Member
Originally Posted by kjr_trig
http:///forum/post/2745042
Please see posts 12 and 18 from the owners of BZ and SWF.com about cyanide and Indo Tusks. Seems a bit irresponsible to me to claim only Aussie Tusks are likely to live. My Indo is on his 5th month in captivity. My Indo certainly wasn't $39, try $75 and that was with a 40% weekly special.
No one claimed only Aussie's lived. I said our first two Tusks lived fine past the 'cyanide period' and know yours is still going strong.
However risks are risks. Cyanide captured Tusks are still out there. $39.99 or $49.99 Tusks, are still out there. The LFS I bought mine last Tusks for $49.99 is having another sale. Vendors really can only do so much. Distributors can only do so much. Collectors/Suppliers can only do so much. All it takes is one kink in that chain. And if you really are paying $75 + shipping, why not trade that chain (Indo Tusks) for a rope (Aust Tusks) that doesn't have the ability to kink?
Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/2745071
IKnowing the origin and capture/handling practices ,makes a lot of sense, especially with Indian Ocean fish.
Do you have actual info on the collection of the Tusks? This is the only reason I am being a PITA stickler. None of the responses from the vendors addressed this. Either negating the fact they think we're implying that all fish are cyanide caught. No, I am implying just Indian Ocean Harlequin Tuskfish. Or that they haven't seen Harlequin collected, yet somehow they sell them?
There is really only 3 ways I know of that fish are collected healthily, either some type of slurp gun device, some type of net (hand, cast, sail, etc), or the ole hook and line. I have been under the impression based on the habitat and the open swimmer nature of Harlequins, nets and guns don't work. The only way I know of is either barb and line or cyanide. For every Indo Tusk to be caught on a line, this would do two things, make them just as expensive as the Aussie counterparts (or at least in the same range, but not the $50 to $150 cheaper they are now). But more importantly it would make them just as rare. Numbers of Indo over Aussie is astounding, at my LFS's, at your LFS's and online.
http:///forum/post/2745042
Please see posts 12 and 18 from the owners of BZ and SWF.com about cyanide and Indo Tusks. Seems a bit irresponsible to me to claim only Aussie Tusks are likely to live. My Indo is on his 5th month in captivity. My Indo certainly wasn't $39, try $75 and that was with a 40% weekly special.
No one claimed only Aussie's lived. I said our first two Tusks lived fine past the 'cyanide period' and know yours is still going strong.
However risks are risks. Cyanide captured Tusks are still out there. $39.99 or $49.99 Tusks, are still out there. The LFS I bought mine last Tusks for $49.99 is having another sale. Vendors really can only do so much. Distributors can only do so much. Collectors/Suppliers can only do so much. All it takes is one kink in that chain. And if you really are paying $75 + shipping, why not trade that chain (Indo Tusks) for a rope (Aust Tusks) that doesn't have the ability to kink?
Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/2745071
IKnowing the origin and capture/handling practices ,makes a lot of sense, especially with Indian Ocean fish.
Do you have actual info on the collection of the Tusks? This is the only reason I am being a PITA stickler. None of the responses from the vendors addressed this. Either negating the fact they think we're implying that all fish are cyanide caught. No, I am implying just Indian Ocean Harlequin Tuskfish. Or that they haven't seen Harlequin collected, yet somehow they sell them?
There is really only 3 ways I know of that fish are collected healthily, either some type of slurp gun device, some type of net (hand, cast, sail, etc), or the ole hook and line. I have been under the impression based on the habitat and the open swimmer nature of Harlequins, nets and guns don't work. The only way I know of is either barb and line or cyanide. For every Indo Tusk to be caught on a line, this would do two things, make them just as expensive as the Aussie counterparts (or at least in the same range, but not the $50 to $150 cheaper they are now). But more importantly it would make them just as rare. Numbers of Indo over Aussie is astounding, at my LFS's, at your LFS's and online.
kjr_trig
Active Member
Originally Posted by RCreations
http:///forum/post/2744959
because non Australian Tusks don't live long in captivity.
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2745130
No one claimed only Aussie's lived.
I'm sorry, What?
Blanket Statement
srfisher17
Active Member
Bob Fenner's book ( The Conscience Marine Aquaroist) mentions the collection of tusks using a barbless hook. I've used this method to get fish out of tanks for years (OK PETA, hit me!) and have never lost a fish that I know of. I think its far less stressful, on the fish and me, than tearing apart the tank or chasing with a net for hours. I've also been told this by an old friend at one of the big online dealers. As to price, catching an Philippine or Indonesian tusk with a hook would add a bit to the price; but the pay scale is so low there that they might get an extra 25cents. I think one of the replies from a dealer on Kirk's link says diver in the Philippines might get a nickle for a clownfish. The Australian and Indo-Pacific pay scales just can't be compared. Off subject; but the Countries that export Red sea fish sure seem to do a good job regulating capture.
aquaknight
Active Member
Sorry, missed --'s post, looked at Hammer's and my own...
aquaknight
Active Member
Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/2745149
Bob Fenner's book ( The Conscience Marine Aquaroist) mentions the collection of tusks using a barbless hook. I've used this method to get fish out of tanks for years (OK PETA, hit me!) and have never lost a fish that I know of. I think its far less stressful, on the fish and me, than tearing apart the tank or chasing with a net for hours. I've also been told this by an old friend at one of the big online dealers. As to price, catching an Philippine or Indonesian tusk with a hook would add a bit to the price; but the pay scale is so low there that they might get an extra 25cents. I think one of the replies from a dealer on Kirk's link says diver in the Philippines might get a nickle for a clownfish. The Australian and Indo-Pacific pay scales just can't be compared. Off subject; but the Countries that export Red sea fish sure seem to do a good job regulating capture.
Correct but I would say as far as high end places go, Rea Sea and Hawaii would be at the top. And on campbell's Hawaii trip thread on --, he mentioned collectors there recieve less a couple bux for even high end fish, typical above the pay scale of Harlequin Tusks. I'm sure you seen some wholeseller price lists, but for sake of SWF, let's just say we know where the majority of the mark up comes from.
However, the money numbers are negotiable, it's the sheer quantities of Indo-Tusks that are very common, especially at a local retail level, versus an Aussie, that is usually only special ordered, is my point of concern. These fish shouldn't readily avaiable, yet they are. Additionally, check out the point map of Tusks too. Australia is where they're from. Not I.O.
http:///forum/post/2745149
Bob Fenner's book ( The Conscience Marine Aquaroist) mentions the collection of tusks using a barbless hook. I've used this method to get fish out of tanks for years (OK PETA, hit me!) and have never lost a fish that I know of. I think its far less stressful, on the fish and me, than tearing apart the tank or chasing with a net for hours. I've also been told this by an old friend at one of the big online dealers. As to price, catching an Philippine or Indonesian tusk with a hook would add a bit to the price; but the pay scale is so low there that they might get an extra 25cents. I think one of the replies from a dealer on Kirk's link says diver in the Philippines might get a nickle for a clownfish. The Australian and Indo-Pacific pay scales just can't be compared. Off subject; but the Countries that export Red sea fish sure seem to do a good job regulating capture.
Correct but I would say as far as high end places go, Rea Sea and Hawaii would be at the top. And on campbell's Hawaii trip thread on --, he mentioned collectors there recieve less a couple bux for even high end fish, typical above the pay scale of Harlequin Tusks. I'm sure you seen some wholeseller price lists, but for sake of SWF, let's just say we know where the majority of the mark up comes from.
However, the money numbers are negotiable, it's the sheer quantities of Indo-Tusks that are very common, especially at a local retail level, versus an Aussie, that is usually only special ordered, is my point of concern. These fish shouldn't readily avaiable, yet they are. Additionally, check out the point map of Tusks too. Australia is where they're from. Not I.O.
kjr_trig
Active Member
I guess thats where we can disagree AK, I certainly don't think Mark Martin (BZ owner), or Scott (SWF owner) are going to Indonisia on a regular basis for the beaches (though they are quite nice i'm sure). In other words, I think these fellows have a very good idea where their fish are coming from, who and how they are caught, and how they are being handled.
If a wholesaler is getting bad product from distributors/catchers, it won't take long before they find somebody better.
If a LFS is getting bad fish from a wholesaler, it won't take long for them to wise up and find a better wholesaler.
If consumers are getting bad product from a LFS, it won't take long for them to find a new store.
I may be able to convince somebody my golf course is worth $150 to play once, but if it's not worth it, he sure as hell won't be back.
If a wholesaler is getting bad product from distributors/catchers, it won't take long before they find somebody better.
If a LFS is getting bad fish from a wholesaler, it won't take long for them to wise up and find a better wholesaler.
If consumers are getting bad product from a LFS, it won't take long for them to find a new store.
I may be able to convince somebody my golf course is worth $150 to play once, but if it's not worth it, he sure as hell won't be back.
aquaknight
Active Member
Originally Posted by kjr_trig
http:///forum/post/2745178
I guess thats where we can disagree AK, I certainly don't think Mark Martin (BZ owner), or Scott (SWF owner) are going to Indonisia on a regular basis for the beaches (though they are quite nice i'm sure). In other words, I think these fellows have a very good idea where their fish are coming from, who and how they are caught, and how they are being handled.
Fair enough. However I believe both of them (gravely sorry if I put words into anyones mouth) said they were there multiple times, so let's assume 3 each, and if in 6 times they haven't seen Tusks collected, all that does for me is raise more questions then it answers.
One thing is for sure, these two threads just go to show, once you do have a healthy Tuskfish, being either an Indo or Aussie, is that how incredible of fish these Tusks are, to spark such debate...
http:///forum/post/2745178
I guess thats where we can disagree AK, I certainly don't think Mark Martin (BZ owner), or Scott (SWF owner) are going to Indonisia on a regular basis for the beaches (though they are quite nice i'm sure). In other words, I think these fellows have a very good idea where their fish are coming from, who and how they are caught, and how they are being handled.
Fair enough. However I believe both of them (gravely sorry if I put words into anyones mouth) said they were there multiple times, so let's assume 3 each, and if in 6 times they haven't seen Tusks collected, all that does for me is raise more questions then it answers.
One thing is for sure, these two threads just go to show, once you do have a healthy Tuskfish, being either an Indo or Aussie, is that how incredible of fish these Tusks are, to spark such debate...
kjr_trig
Active Member
Originally Posted by prime311
http:///forum/post/2745200
My tusk came from the Red Sea. Is that a good thing then?
Are you sure? AK and SrFisher could answer that better than I, but I haven't heard of Tusks coming from the Red Sea....But almost all fish caught from the Red Sea are caught "properly", such as my beautiful Asfur/Arabian Angel and Sohal/Arabian Tang. The Red Sea has higher specific gravity than the Indian Ocean, I was under the impression most Red Sea species were indiginous to there.
http:///forum/post/2745200
My tusk came from the Red Sea. Is that a good thing then?
Are you sure? AK and SrFisher could answer that better than I, but I haven't heard of Tusks coming from the Red Sea....But almost all fish caught from the Red Sea are caught "properly", such as my beautiful Asfur/Arabian Angel and Sohal/Arabian Tang. The Red Sea has higher specific gravity than the Indian Ocean, I was under the impression most Red Sea species were indiginous to there.
aquaknight
Active Member
Originally Posted by prime311
http:///forum/post/2745200
My tusk came from the Red Sea. Is that a good thing then?
No. You got taken for a ride (your LFS very well could have too, so it may not be them). Harlequin Tusks are not from that region. Look at the point map I posted. The Red Sea is west of Saudi Arabi.
Harlequins are found around the Pacific, mainly around the Philippines and Austraila
http:///forum/post/2745200
My tusk came from the Red Sea. Is that a good thing then?
No. You got taken for a ride (your LFS very well could have too, so it may not be them). Harlequin Tusks are not from that region. Look at the point map I posted. The Red Sea is west of Saudi Arabi.
Harlequins are found around the Pacific, mainly around the Philippines and Austraila
kjr_trig
Active Member
Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/2745149
Bob Fenner's book ( The Conscience Marine Aquaroist) mentions the collection of tusks using a barbless hook. I've used this method to get fish out of tanks for years (OK PETA, hit me!) and have never lost a fish that I know of. I think its far less stressful, on the fish and me, than tearing apart the tank or chasing with a net for hours. I've also been told this by an old friend at one of the big online dealers. As to price, catching an Philippine or Indonesian tusk with a hook would add a bit to the price; but the pay scale is so low there that they might get an extra 25cents. I think one of the replies from a dealer on Kirk's link says diver in the Philippines might get a nickle for a clownfish. The Australian and Indo-Pacific pay scales just can't be compared. Off subject; but the Countries that export Red sea fish sure seem to do a good job regulating capture.
Sorry, I missed part of that earlier, but it brings up the great point of it costs a helluva lot more to pay an Australian man to catch a Harlequin Tusk on a barbless hook, than it does to pay a Philippino man to catch a Harlequin Tusk on a barbless hook. A fact that just shouldn't be ignored.
http:///forum/post/2745149
Bob Fenner's book ( The Conscience Marine Aquaroist) mentions the collection of tusks using a barbless hook. I've used this method to get fish out of tanks for years (OK PETA, hit me!) and have never lost a fish that I know of. I think its far less stressful, on the fish and me, than tearing apart the tank or chasing with a net for hours. I've also been told this by an old friend at one of the big online dealers. As to price, catching an Philippine or Indonesian tusk with a hook would add a bit to the price; but the pay scale is so low there that they might get an extra 25cents. I think one of the replies from a dealer on Kirk's link says diver in the Philippines might get a nickle for a clownfish. The Australian and Indo-Pacific pay scales just can't be compared. Off subject; but the Countries that export Red sea fish sure seem to do a good job regulating capture.
Sorry, I missed part of that earlier, but it brings up the great point of it costs a helluva lot more to pay an Australian man to catch a Harlequin Tusk on a barbless hook, than it does to pay a Philippino man to catch a Harlequin Tusk on a barbless hook. A fact that just shouldn't be ignored.
aquaknight
Active Member
Originally Posted by prime311
http:///forum/post/2745212
Well I didn't really care where it came from anyway(unless it was an Aussie). Id asked if it was an aussie and they said it was a red sea. At 2 months between the LFS and my tank of healthiness I don't think hes going to be croaking so thats good.
Sorry if this thread came off the wrong way, with all doom and gloom about Indo Tusks. There certain are cases of those Tusks doing great. The fact that you or your LFS might have paid a bit more then usual, could be a blessing in disguise.
Originally Posted by kjr_trig
http:///forum/post/2745223
Sorry, I missed part of that earlier, but it brings up the great point of it costs a helluva lot more to pay an Australian man to catch a Harlequin Tusk on a barbless hook, than it does to pay a Philippino man to catch a Harlequin Tusk on a barbless hook. A fact that just shouldn't be ignored.
That's why I included the parts I have (about Campbell's HI trip). You would think an Hawaiian man was also making more then an Australian man as well, right? An Australian man doesn't make more then a $.50 from a clownfish, for comparsion sake. Nor does that Australian make more then couple dollars from a Tusk. Just saying the price difference at the collector level is really nothing.
Nor would that explain the popularity difference...
http:///forum/post/2745212
Well I didn't really care where it came from anyway(unless it was an Aussie). Id asked if it was an aussie and they said it was a red sea. At 2 months between the LFS and my tank of healthiness I don't think hes going to be croaking so thats good.
Sorry if this thread came off the wrong way, with all doom and gloom about Indo Tusks. There certain are cases of those Tusks doing great. The fact that you or your LFS might have paid a bit more then usual, could be a blessing in disguise.
Originally Posted by kjr_trig
http:///forum/post/2745223
Sorry, I missed part of that earlier, but it brings up the great point of it costs a helluva lot more to pay an Australian man to catch a Harlequin Tusk on a barbless hook, than it does to pay a Philippino man to catch a Harlequin Tusk on a barbless hook. A fact that just shouldn't be ignored.
That's why I included the parts I have (about Campbell's HI trip). You would think an Hawaiian man was also making more then an Australian man as well, right? An Australian man doesn't make more then a $.50 from a clownfish, for comparsion sake. Nor does that Australian make more then couple dollars from a Tusk. Just saying the price difference at the collector level is really nothing.
Nor would that explain the popularity difference...
srfisher17
Active Member
Originally Posted by kjr_trig
http:///forum/post/2745223
Sorry, I missed part of that earlier, but it brings up the great point of it costs a helluva lot more to pay an Australian man to catch a Harlequin Tusk on a barbless hook, than it does to pay a Philippino man to catch a Harlequin Tusk on a barbless hook. A fact that just shouldn't be ignored.
Right.
Also; there is a very distinct color difference in the IO and Aussies. It might be just me, but I think Aussies are a bit more "robust" that the IO variety. But, this could just be an optical illusion based on color pattern. I noticed that a dealer is stating that some tusks are from Bali; part of Indonesia that is close to Australia, but on the opposite side of the Australian continent from where the tusks live. and it looks like these fish actually look like a mix of the two varieties.
BTW; I've never heard of a tusk from the Red Sea either; but some of my favorite fish come from there and they all seem to thrive.
One last comment on fish prices at the retail level. Of course, getting a live fish acclimated, boxed, shipped thousands of miles, then going through the same thing on arrival in the U.S. is very expensive. But the number of fish lost in the process also is much higher than we like to discuss. I expect we just don't want to give fuel to the fringe group that thinks we destroy the environment. Like I say (too often), on a moral level whats the big difference between the fish in my QT and the tuna sandwich I had for lunch? A lot of the fish we pay a fortune for, like big angels, are just dinner in another part of the world. Sorry, it must be just the political season!
http:///forum/post/2745223
Sorry, I missed part of that earlier, but it brings up the great point of it costs a helluva lot more to pay an Australian man to catch a Harlequin Tusk on a barbless hook, than it does to pay a Philippino man to catch a Harlequin Tusk on a barbless hook. A fact that just shouldn't be ignored.
Right.
Also; there is a very distinct color difference in the IO and Aussies. It might be just me, but I think Aussies are a bit more "robust" that the IO variety. But, this could just be an optical illusion based on color pattern. I noticed that a dealer is stating that some tusks are from Bali; part of Indonesia that is close to Australia, but on the opposite side of the Australian continent from where the tusks live. and it looks like these fish actually look like a mix of the two varieties.
BTW; I've never heard of a tusk from the Red Sea either; but some of my favorite fish come from there and they all seem to thrive.
One last comment on fish prices at the retail level. Of course, getting a live fish acclimated, boxed, shipped thousands of miles, then going through the same thing on arrival in the U.S. is very expensive. But the number of fish lost in the process also is much higher than we like to discuss. I expect we just don't want to give fuel to the fringe group that thinks we destroy the environment. Like I say (too often), on a moral level whats the big difference between the fish in my QT and the tuna sandwich I had for lunch? A lot of the fish we pay a fortune for, like big angels, are just dinner in another part of the world. Sorry, it must be just the political season!
srfisher17
Active Member
Originally Posted by killrbee3636
http:///forum/post/2743999
Hey Ladies and Gents!! I'm new to the forum but not new to the hobby. I read these boards all the time and it's been very helpful. My H Tusks was perfectly fine 2 days ago and all of a sudden he wasn't swimming or eating!! I wasn't sure if he hit the lion or what? Also, its not an Aust Tusk.
Ps can anybody help me figure what I should add next?? Looking to add one more fish.
Hey killrbee; sorry your thread took off in a new direction. I'd post this in the disease section and you may get some better help on the tusk; I don't know for certain that it is cyanide. Tusks, like lionfish, will sometimes just fast for a while; but I'm worried about this one. As to another fish, if you lose this one, I'd get another tusk. But from a dealer (online if possible) that can tell you where he's from with some certainty.
http:///forum/post/2743999
Hey Ladies and Gents!! I'm new to the forum but not new to the hobby. I read these boards all the time and it's been very helpful. My H Tusks was perfectly fine 2 days ago and all of a sudden he wasn't swimming or eating!! I wasn't sure if he hit the lion or what? Also, its not an Aust Tusk.
Ps can anybody help me figure what I should add next?? Looking to add one more fish.
Hey killrbee; sorry your thread took off in a new direction. I'd post this in the disease section and you may get some better help on the tusk; I don't know for certain that it is cyanide. Tusks, like lionfish, will sometimes just fast for a while; but I'm worried about this one. As to another fish, if you lose this one, I'd get another tusk. But from a dealer (online if possible) that can tell you where he's from with some certainty.