marinemarty
Member
Hi All, I just wanted to know what people thought of putting a heater in an over flow. My heater does not fit in my sump; or else i will have to get 2 smaller heaters. Thanks
Martin
Martin
Heater in Overflow ?????
- Thread starter marinemarty
- Start date
bartman
Member
Not sure if a heater in the over flow will help keep the tank at a good steady temp. Lots of flow there. How big is your overflow that the heater WILL fit and wont fit into the sump. I know its radical in thinking but you can put a heater in the tank...mine is in my tank and when i add my sump i will put one in there as well. But if asthetics is what you want you should prolly get the 2 smaller heaters instead of the one. Just my .02 .
broomer5
Active Member
You want the entire length of the heater's heating element to be totally submersed in water all the time. If you use a submersion heater ( you should be ) then as long as the heater's always underwater - it does not really matter where it's located in the system.
Flow - does not enter so much in the picture, except you want it in an area of moving water.
I've never seen anyone place a heater in an overflow - I doubt I'd do it myself.
Flow - does not enter so much in the picture, except you want it in an area of moving water.
I've never seen anyone place a heater in an overflow - I doubt I'd do it myself.
mr . salty
Active Member
Two smaller heaters is actually the better way to go.
I would think flow rate would have alot to do with it.After all it is contact with the water that heats it.If the water is flowing by too quickly,I would think it would be less likly to absorb the heat from the heater...
I would think flow rate would have alot to do with it.After all it is contact with the water that heats it.If the water is flowing by too quickly,I would think it would be less likly to absorb the heat from the heater...
broomer5
Active Member
Salty - I think the water will absorb the heat whether the water is moving fast or not - it almost has to.
If the heater is making heat - where else can the heat go ?
It doesn't make sense to me either sometimes - but from what I understand - contact time is not so much an issue in a closed loop system. I would think that more flow is much better than reduced flow for even temperature thoughout.
Like placing a heater at one end of tank - with too little tank circulation. One end warmer than other.
Now that would make a big difference in my opinion.
Maybe someone studying fluid thermodynamics could help to explain this better. I may be totally misguided on this.
If so - please someone correct me.
This is one of those sorta not sure things in my head.
If the heater is making heat - where else can the heat go ?
It doesn't make sense to me either sometimes - but from what I understand - contact time is not so much an issue in a closed loop system. I would think that more flow is much better than reduced flow for even temperature thoughout.
Like placing a heater at one end of tank - with too little tank circulation. One end warmer than other.
Now that would make a big difference in my opinion.
Maybe someone studying fluid thermodynamics could help to explain this better. I may be totally misguided on this.
If so - please someone correct me.
This is one of those sorta not sure things in my head.
wamp
Active Member
I would think...
That it has to do with contact time of the heater. With that much flow, you would not get enough contact time with the heater to do much good. Even though it would be submered, the water would be moving too fast around the heater.
Just my thinking. I have seen fireplug heaters but the flow rate is not that fast through them.
Edit: Just notice me and salty had the same thought....
That it has to do with contact time of the heater. With that much flow, you would not get enough contact time with the heater to do much good. Even though it would be submered, the water would be moving too fast around the heater.
Just my thinking. I have seen fireplug heaters but the flow rate is not that fast through them.
Edit: Just notice me and salty had the same thought....
broomer5
Active Member
I can understand if the heater was not totally underwater, and exposed to air - that you'd have heat loss into the air.
But if underwater - where will the BTU's go ?
Where would the heat end up going ?
Does it just vanish, or does the glass in the heater get hotter or cooler ?
Seems like the glass heater would get cooler if flow is faster.
If that's true - then the water would have to take the heat.
Still not sure
But if underwater - where will the BTU's go ?
Where would the heat end up going ?
Does it just vanish, or does the glass in the heater get hotter or cooler ?
Seems like the glass heater would get cooler if flow is faster.
If that's true - then the water would have to take the heat.
Still not sure
broomer5
Active Member
broomer5
Active Member
I don't think our tanks are actually closed loop systems regarding heating.
We lose heat through the tankwalls, piping and water/air surface.
If the surrounding conditions are cooler - the heater is on, we heat water, but we lose heat everywhere.
If the surrounding conditions are warmer - the heater thermostat turns it off.
Still puzzling - I may retract what I said earlier.
We lose heat through the tankwalls, piping and water/air surface.
If the surrounding conditions are cooler - the heater is on, we heat water, but we lose heat everywhere.
If the surrounding conditions are warmer - the heater thermostat turns it off.
Still puzzling - I may retract what I said earlier.
marinemarty
Member
Thanks Guys, Ok so who needs an extra 17" 250 watt ebo jagger heater? I may drop it in to the overflow just to see what happens. i personally think it will be fine. I will let you guys know how it works. Just for FYI what is a good 13" heater maybe even 12". Thanks
Martin
I may drop it in to the overflow just to see what happens. i personally think it will be fine. I will let you guys know how it works. Just for FYI what is a good 13" heater maybe even 12". ThanksMartin
oceanjumper
Member
Though.... Broomer is right. Flow does NOT matter. Heat = energy. Energy will make the little ions in the water molecules tremble faster. That goes in nanosecs. Even if you want to, the flow will NEVER be too fast to absorb the heat. However.... faster flow does mean quicker evaporation.... and more evaporation means more heat loss (that's why we transpire)... So, you just have to play with the setting of your heater. It's that round thing on top of the tube!
I knew that college degree was going to pay off one day
I knew that college degree was going to pay off one day
bartman
Member
The flow does matter due to the fact that the heat will be dispersed everywhere it does you no good. You will lose heat through the overflow box itself, through the tubing. With the high flow you will transfer more heat in the overflow box, thus keeping your oveflow box at a nice balmy temperature. You want the heat to originate somewhere where it will hang around more. In a box that small in relation to the tank you will lose more than you would if you placed it in a larger body of water. Water is a far better insulator than 1/8 to 1/4 inch plastic. The temperature stability is the most important thing and i think with the heater in the overflow box that will be more difficult.
By having all that heat loss in the overflow box you will have to use more energy to get the same effect than you would if placed either in the sump or the main tank itself. And i dont see how stability could be maintained.
With all that being said i dont think that you will be diciplined by the tank gods for putting it in the overflow. Im just in the mood to make an argument. Its your tank and you do what you have to do. I am noone to tell anyone what is better than what they decide. Just wanted to make my point. (other than the one on my head)
By having all that heat loss in the overflow box you will have to use more energy to get the same effect than you would if placed either in the sump or the main tank itself. And i dont see how stability could be maintained.
With all that being said i dont think that you will be diciplined by the tank gods for putting it in the overflow. Im just in the mood to make an argument. Its your tank and you do what you have to do. I am noone to tell anyone what is better than what they decide. Just wanted to make my point. (other than the one on my head)
slick
Active Member
Let me say this.
Once your tank has reached operating temp your heater dosen't run very much. So the idea that the over flow box getting hot if the heater is in it dosen't make sence. Even if your heater is in the sump or tank the water flowing through the overflow will be the same temp. Let me ask you this. Lets say you just filled your tank with water that is 70 and you put the heater in the overflow. Your heater will kick on right? Ok do you think the overflow will get hot with 70 water flowing through it at 500
gph or more? The answer is NO. Your heater will work the same in the tank the sump or the overflow box. I don't see why some of you can't understand this.
Once your tank has reached operating temp your heater dosen't run very much. So the idea that the over flow box getting hot if the heater is in it dosen't make sence. Even if your heater is in the sump or tank the water flowing through the overflow will be the same temp. Let me ask you this. Lets say you just filled your tank with water that is 70 and you put the heater in the overflow. Your heater will kick on right? Ok do you think the overflow will get hot with 70 water flowing through it at 500
gph or more? The answer is NO. Your heater will work the same in the tank the sump or the overflow box. I don't see why some of you can't understand this.
marinemarty
Member
Hi All, and thanks for the advice. I will be placing the heater in the overflow, the idea that the overflow will be a warm spot to me sounds ok. After all my main goal is to try to replicate a small marine ecosystem. In real life you have lava flows, sun spots, all sorts of " hot " spots. I just do not understand how the heat in the water in the overflow would not get circulated throught the tank. After all if i set the heater at 79 once the temp in the overflow reaches above 79 it shuts off. I will let you guys know what happens. but since my lights have arrived i do not think my heater will turn on for months
Thanks Again
Martin
Thanks Again
Martin
marinemarty
Member
OK so far so good my temp fluctates 2 degrees from 81-83 throught out the day. Thanks for all the help
Martin
Martin