Heater Temperature

[hoover86]

One thing I haven't noticed a lot of in the boards here is temperature. I just got a new 75 gallon reef tank this weekend. I bought pre-mixed salt water from my local saltwater experts and about 25 pounds of live rock. One thing I found a bit strange when getting everything I would need was that the guy helping me acutally said I probably wouldn't need a heater.... Now I am new to this, but I'm pretty sure my house and tank water will never be at the temperature of the places saltwater fish and rock come from. He claims my 48 inch coralife 260 watt light will give me all the heat I need. Is this right? If not what do you suggest? Thanks for the help.

 

[bang guy]

The LFS guy must not be familiar with tropical reef animals.
I'd suggest a pair of 250 watt heaters set somewhere between 80F and 85F.

 

[turningtim]

This is not the first time I've heard this and it still makes no sense. Yes your lights will give off heat but, you don't run your lights 24/7. It is critical to maintain as constant a temp as possible. Even if your lights heat the water to 80 when the lights go off the temp will dive. Temp fluxtuations of just a couple degrees will not make your critters happy. The heaters will not go on until nessasary, so when the lights are off the heaters will make up the difference.
The use of 2 smaller heaters is a good thing b/c if one goes out the other can pick up the slack until you replace the broken one. Besides all that I doubt that 260w PC lights will heat the water that much.
This would probably be the last time I took advise from that LFS.
WELCOME TO THE BOARDS!

HTH
Tim

 

[hoover86]

Thanks for the help, I thought it sounded a little off! Thankfully I haven't gotten any fish yet as he had reccomended at least 2 weeks before I purchase any. I needed to run the 15 5 gallon buckets I used to transport water back anyway so I'll pick up a few heaters. A few more questions your reply reminded me of too. So I should turn the lights off at night? He never really said one way or the other, I just know he said it helps the live rock and coral when I eventually get some. Also, I'm considering live sand and am not sure where to get it. They want $4 a pound at one store, and ***** is quite a bit cheaper then that. I've heard not to get fine sand because when I get power heads or something to move the water around it will make a mess, but do you have any suggestions? Thanks for the help, you guys all make it a lot easier to get into something that would otherwise be a lot more challenging!

 

[turningtim]

You can get Live sand and then get some dead sand. The LS will seed the other while your tank is cycleing. This will cut down on the expence. Do not get CC no matter who tells you its OK. Use an argonite sand and as far as power heads just don't point them at the sand and you won't get a sand storm.
I have my lights on a plug in timer, I run them about 10 hrs a day. The more light the more algea growth.
Time is not what you need to base the "cycle" of the tank. You must test the water to make sure your Bio-filtration is established. If you don't have test kits you need them as well as a refractometer for salinity.
Keep asking questions, your doing great!
Tim

 

[mrdc]

Got to have that heater! It's also a good idea to have two since the odds are in your favor that both will not fail at the same time. Living in the South, I don't have to worry about the temperature dropping as much but I do keep a 400w and 250w heater in mine.

 

[mikersof]

Originally Posted by hoover86
the guy helping me acutally said I probably wouldn't need a heater....

I was told the very same thing at my LFS. Even when I said our house temp at night in winter can get down to 60 or so! When I asked further, I was told that these are "Sea Creatures that live in colder water." In looking at the various online fish sites, and seeing the requirments with temps in the 70's or 80's, well, so much for dependable info from the LFS.
The two smaller heaters is new info and seems to be great advice for my 80gl bowfront. Heaters are very inexpensive and I want my critters as happy as I can make them!
Thanks so much for being here!!!
james =)

 

[hoover86]

So you're saying get a blend of live sand and argonate sand? If this is correct what kind of blend do you reccomend, say 50/50? I can deffinetely see how that would cut costs really well. How do you feel about the advice of 2 weeks to introduce fish into my new aquarium? Is this long enough or maybe too long? I can't wait to get some cool fish but don't want to rush getting them if it will cause problems. I really want to order from this site as they seem very knowledgeable about what species to mix with what, but it seems there are out of stock A LOT on items. Any other reccomendations on where to order? My local pet store seems to have a pretty bleek supply and variety. You guys are awesome! I never expected such quick replies at all! Thank you so much!

 

[xrayman]

Must be sure your tank has cycled.Amonia,nirtite must be 0 you will have to monitor them.

 

[turningtim]

Yes that is what I'm saying. The more LS you use the less time it will take to seed the other. You can get all sand and a cup full of LS and that will seed the sand.
You need to read on "how to cycle your tank" (search this site). This what I meant when I said time is NOT the determining factor on when you can add livestock. You need now and in the future test kits to test your own water. To start PH, AMMN, NITRITE, NITRATE, Then if you go for a reef tank CALCIUM, ALK, PHOSPHATE and MAGNESIUM. There are several good kits out there and these are a must (salifert being the best). I also suggest a refractometer to check salinity. If you have problems we (everyone here trying to help) will want to know what your water parameters are.
You need to wait and test at 0 AMMN, 0 NITRITE before adding anything.
The reason SWF is out of stock is b/c of the time of the year. Shipping is more difficult in the winter monthes so they stock less (I think :notsure: )
Your cycle can take a week it may take severval weeks. It is impossible to answer.
Where and how much live rock are you planning on?
That should be enough for now.

Do some reading and come back with some more questions. ***)
HTH
Tim

 

[hoover86]

WOW, this can really be a lot to take in. Well here's what I have so far. I have a 75 gallon tank with 25 pounds of live rock. I'm acutally going back tomorrow (tuesday) to get some more live rock. I'm not sure how much (they have some really nice kind I've never seen anyone talk about on here for $9.99 per pound), I plan to have at least 75 pounds when it's all said and done. I'll probably grab 25 more pounds tomorrow. Do I need to have it all right away or can I slowly add more?

 

[turningtim]

Get the cheaper stuff and place on the bottom, nice stuff on top. As long as you buy from the LFS it will be cured and you can add when you want. Your goal of 1lb per gal is good, maybe add a little more but you're on the right track.
Since your just starting the tank look around for LR it maybe much cheaper to buy online and then you can cycle the tank with it (look SWF). For $250 you could get really nice stuff and probably all that you need in one shot. You can just cure in your tank, this will help the cycle. (search curing LR). You could also get your sand this way (both kinds).
If you would like give me your email and I can point you in the right direction.
Get those test kits! and refractometer!
HTH
Tim

 

[hoover86]

Yea, I'm at hoover86@hotmail.com. I think that's probably a good idea to maybe mix and match the LR. The thing I like about the expensive stuff is that is has a lot of webbing in it. It looks really cool and my LFS tells me it will be nice to use the pockets in the webbing to place coral. I'm not really sure that it's cured now that I'm home and looking at it. There are quite a few shells and even a small pincher from a crab or something, that I've noticed sticking out of the rock. There's also like seaweed or something on one of them. Doesn't seem like they cured it but I could be wrong. All I know is I can't wait to get back up there tomorrow to get more rock and sand so it starts looking more like a real tank!

 

[hoover86]

I just thought I'd let you guys know I went back to my LFS and talked with a different guy who also advised against getting a heater. I decided to just get a thermometer (sp?) for $3 rather than spend like $30-$40 for a heater and I AM GLAD. My tank stays right around 77 degrees with just the light on, and I checked it this morning and it was about 75 after the lights were off all night! My LFS said they have sold maybe 1 or 2 heaters in the past 3 or so years, and I can see why. Unless you are keeping it pretty warm in your tank it really isn't neccessary. The guy working said he has the opposite, a very expensive chiller on his 250 gallon. Just though I would pass it along!

 

[turningtim]

I agree that you may need a chiller if you run MH lights. Submersible pumps also give off heat I just don't think its wise to not have a heater. For the $40 dollars to keep the temp CONSTANT it is worth the investment when you have several hundred dollars in livestock. What happens if your lights blow or the ballists and you don't have lights for an extended period of time? What if you need to cut the light period down b/c of algea or introduction of new livestock? What if your home furnence goes out while your not at home? There are just to many things that can go wrong and will effect the temp of your tank. You are depending on something that is not intended to keep a CONSTANT temp in your tank.
I keep my tank at 79 and it only varies maybe a degree or two. It just seems foolish to me not to have to have a backup in place. The cost of a heater will be nothing if you whole tank goes under!
JMO
Tim

 

[mrdc]

And a heater can cost next to nothing. I got a brand new 300w off a popular auction site for $9. The same heater costs $30 locally. I use it to heat my water for water changes. Also I notice that you are in South Dakota. I know you get some bad winter and summer storms. Do you ever lose power for an extended period of time? If so and it's winter, you might run the risk of the temp dropping. I heater could be ran during a power outage with a battery backup or ac converter that plugs into your car or hooks to a battery.

 

[hoover86]

Point taken guys, thanks for that. We actually did lose power over thanksgiving and it was AWFUL. Unfortunately I dont' have a power backup, and when it did happen it was for such a long time I don't think even a backup would have helped unless I had many. I do agree with the point of having one just in case though, I think that's probably still a good idea, because I'm sure at night it will dip a little bit when the lights are off. Thanks for pointing this out!

 

[turningtim]

Thats a great point mrdc, when you add new water for WCs the new and the old should match as close as possible. Not only in temp but salinity as well.
Trust me hoov, when you have your tank filled with livestock (and that will range in the hundreds of dollars) you will do anything to keep them healthy and happy!
HTH
Tim

 

[merredeth]

Originally Posted by hoover86
I just thought I'd let you guys know I went back to my LFS and talked with a different guy who also advised against getting a heater. I decided to just get a thermometer (sp?) for $3 rather than spend like $30-$40 for a heater and I AM GLAD. My tank stays right around 77 degrees with just the light on, and I checked it this morning and it was about 75 after the lights were off all night! My LFS said they have sold maybe 1 or 2 heaters in the past 3 or so years, and I can see why. Unless you are keeping it pretty warm in your tank it really isn't neccessary. The guy working said he has the opposite, a very expensive chiller on his 250 gallon. Just though I would pass it along!

I live in Iowa and believe me you need heaters - even in South Dakota.
Temps dip at night and you need to factor in what temperature the ocean is where your fish came from.
Read about each of your fish you have in the tank and then average it out and use that as a guide. I guarantee you if you averaged out the tankmates normal oceanic temps, you'll find you need to push the temp up a few degrees.
Denise M.

 

[sarwiz100]

Also, purchase GOOD heaters. I have tried several, and am using rena-cals. Also like ebo-jaegers.Just don't believe the temp indicator on them, one is set at 74 and the other at 72 and the tank maintains a nice 77f. What kind of pump are you using? A Little giant submersible will heat the water to 78-80 deg in a 125.(Been There). Check your tank temp at 1am or after the kights have been off for several hours. Large temp swings can cause stress in fis and inverts, and diseases.