Help from the Zoa Pros please

[reefkprz]

Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2614430
Very good then (or not good as the case may be) We will leave them where they are and see what happens. Just seems strange that they did fine for almost three months, where growing and slitting good, than begin to decline. Definitely going to have to be more careful with light acclimation ~ never had MH before, just PCs, so it was never really an issue.
three months? before the decline. I must have missed that when I read through the thread (forgive me, it was a mindnumbing drive home because of road work).
well after rereading, I would say and ask a few things.
the parameters you posted look good. but just to clarify
-Carbon 600ppm
- are you actually testing carbon levels in the water? Natural seawater contains about 1 ppm TOC (total organic carbon) and is considered to be "nutrient-poor." Closed marine systems often contain elevated levels such as 10 to 25 ppm TOC. I'm going to have to see what your reply is on this one. if it was a typo and you meant calcium, then you calcium is too high and probably the reason you cant keep your Alkalinity up.
having water parameters shifting a lot like alk fluctuating up and down rapidly changing bringing your PH up only for it to bottom out again soon, could play hell on any tank inhabitants.

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by reefkprZ
http:///forum/post/2614471
three months? before the decline. I must have missed that when I read through the thread (forgive me, it was a mindnumbing drive home because of road work).
well after rereading, I would say and ask a few things.
the parameters you posted look good. but just to clarify- are you actually testing carbon levels in the water? Natural seawater contains about 1 ppm TOC (total organic carbon) and is considered to be "nutrient-poor." Closed marine systems often contain elevated levels such as 10 to 25 ppm TOC. I'm going to have to see what your reply is on this one. if it was a typo and you meant calcium, then you calcium is too high and probably the reason you cant keep your Alkalinity up.
having water parameters shifting a lot like alk fluctuating up and down rapidly changing bringing your PH up only for it to bottom out again soon, could play hell on any tank inhabitants.
Nice catch, I did indeed mean Calcium, not carbon. And while I realize that its too high, despite switching salts, numerous water changes, etc. I can't get it to come down ~ I've posted before, but would appreciate any suggestions. Sprung in the volume three of the reef aquarium recommends raising alk to the appropriate level in order to balance and bring calcium down, but no way am I going to raise my alkalinity to the required level to balance 600ppm of calcium. Also, since I just was posting on my reef diary, I realized I began to see a decline in late March/early April which would make it only about two months rather than three. Even at that, they were doing well with the calcium level to begin with, because I've never been able to get it down.

 

[reefkprz]

what are you using to bring your alk up?
I have to say, sometimes corals will thrive for a while in adverse conditions but eventually the toll of energy expended trying to survive catches up to them, the least hardy are usually the first to show the signs of detrimental conditions. constant flutuation is really hard on reef organisms. IMO you have to find a stable way to lower your calcium.
my suggestion would be to do water changes with a FOWLR salt like instant ocean instead of reef crystals, instead of a reefsalt with elevated elements, using the fowlr salt with lower elements will help dilute those elements, possibly making it easier to stabilize your water. think of your fishtank as a bowl of marbles containing two colors one for cal and one for alk, you can only fit so many marbles in the bowl, adding one color will force other marbles out of the bowl, if you lower all the marbles you can then add more without trying to force a balance.

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by reefkprZ
http:///forum/post/2614978
what are you using to bring your alk up?
I have to say, sometimes corals will thrive for a while in adverse conditions but eventually the toll of energy expended trying to survive catches up to them, the least hardy are usually the first to show the signs of detrimental conditions. constant flutuation is really hard on reef organisms. IMO you have to find a stable way to lower your calcium.
my suggestion would be to do water changes with a FOWLR salt like instant ocean instead of reef crystals, instead of a reefsalt with elevated elements, using the fowlr salt with lower elements will help dilute those elements, possibly making it easier to stabilize your water. think of your fishtank as a bowl of marbles containing two colors one for cal and one for alk, you can only fit so many marbles in the bowl, adding one color will force other marbles out of the bowl, if you lower all the marbles you can then add more without trying to force a balance.
Currently using Superbuffer dKH by Kent. Understand the need to stablize, like you said, just need to find a sane, stable of doing so.
Ok, so my question now is do I do a single large scale water change (I believe I saw in a thread with the opposite problem, a recommendation for a drastic 75% water change), or do I continue with regular (say 20% weekly) water changes? If the later, how long do I continue to do so (i.e. what chemical target level do I aim for?) before I switch back?

 

[reefkprz]

well I would buy another salt like instant ocean, then mix up one bucket to your target salinity and temperature, and test it for calcium,say IO's caclium is 360 (made this number up I dont know what IO's calciumis at the start) and your current Ca is 600 a 50% water change would then place your calcium at....480 still too high but you get the idea, buy the new salt figure the calcium content then calculate the amount of WC to do to bring the calcum down to appropriate levels. then its up to you to decide if you want to hit the target levels in one shot or several. I myself am comfortable doing large waterchanges, I do 50% changes once a month. but that is a descision your going to have to make.
I keep my calcium between 420-450

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by reefkprZ
http:///forum/post/2615606
well I would buy another salt like instant ocean, then mix up one bucket to your target salinity and temperature, and test it for calcium,say IO's caclium is 360 (made this number up I dont know what IO's calciumis at the start) and your current Ca is 600 a 50% water change would then place your calcium at....480 still too high but you get the idea, buy the new salt figure the calcium content then calculate the amount of WC to do to bring the calcum down to appropriate levels. then its up to you to decide if you want to hit the target levels in one shot or several. I myself am comfortable doing large waterchanges, I do 50% changes once a month. but that is a descision your going to have to make.
I keep my calcium between 420-450
Well, that sounds good. I'll get some I.O. and give it a shot ~ probably go the full monte in one shot, as I really want to get these numbers in balance. Its really going to tick me off if I finally get some killer corals in and all I do is kill them off. Anything special to do for the corals, when I do 50% obviously a number of them are going to expose for a period of time to air? Thanks for all the help reefkprZ

!

 

[reefkprz]

shut your lights off while doing the large change so you dont give em a sunburn, make sure your temperature and salinity are exactly the same. a sudden flux in temperature could be really drastic with a large waterchange like that. thats about all I can think of.

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by reefkprZ
http:///forum/post/2616211
shut your lights off while doing the large change so you dont give em a sunburn, make sure your temperature and salinity are exactly the same. a sudden flux in temperature could be really drastic with a large waterchange like that. thats about all I can think of.
Thank You! Keep ya posted.

 

[reefkprz]

oh if the water change is going to take a while to refill the tank, just fill a spray bottle with tank water to mist down any corals that are out of the water. dont forget to keep the coraline on the sides of the tank moist too.

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by reefkprZ
http:///forum/post/2616767
oh if the water change is going to take a while to refill the tank, just fill a spray bottle with tank water to mist down any corals that are out of the water. dont forget to keep the coraline on the sides of the tank moist too.

Will do, but hopefully it'll be a quick change. May ask for some help with the math ~ will mix first bucket tonight.

 

[reefkprz]

arent you a teacher?

 

[jaymz]

Originally Posted by reefkprZ
http:///forum/post/2616976
arent you a teacher?

Obviously not a chemistry teacher! That science is nothing but another math class. It was a huge thorn in my side while trying to complete my biology degree.

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by reefkprZ
http:///forum/post/2616976
arent you a teacher?

Yes indeed, and I don't teach english, math, or chemistry! All for good reason; I can't spell and I hate complicated math

.

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by Jaymz
http:///forum/post/2616988
Obviously not a chemistry teacher! That science is nothing but another math class. It was a huge thorn in my side while trying to complete my biology degree.
Amen ~ although I have gotten better at some of it, since I started teaching my aquatic class. Have to do some of that water chemistry you know.

 

[iyachtuxivm]

just wondering have you tested your magnesium? If thats off it can effect your calc and kh. Im sure you know that just might have slipped your mind, and the water change should fix that anyway.

 

[reefkprz]

Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2617020
Yes indeed, and I don't teach english, math, or chemistry! All for good reason; I can't spell and I hate complicated math

.
I just got a kick out of it last night "when a teacher asks a high school dropout for help with the math...."
I hope you see the humor in it too. I wasnt trying to insult you. dropping out was one of the worst choices I ever made, its amazing how much that little piece of paper means, I left because I wasn't learning at school, but realized too late school isnt about learning, its about getting a piece of paper. now when I can cram it into my life I have to pay to get another piece of paper when I could have gotten it for free.

but I still get a kick out of a teacher asking a dropout for math help

oh and for the record: I have every intention of returning to school and getting a degree in a feild of science, either marine or general biology.

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by reefkprZ
http:///forum/post/2617417
I just got a kick out of it last night "when a teacher asks a high school dropout for help with the math...."
I hope you see the humor in it too. I wasnt trying to insult you. dropping out was one of the worst choices I ever made, its amazing how much that little piece of paper means, I left because I wasn't learning at school, but realized too late school isnt about learning, its about getting a piece of paper. now when I can cram it into my life I have to pay to get another piece of paper when I could have gotten it for free.

but I still get a kick out of a teacher asking a dropout for math help

oh and for the record: I have every intention of returning to school and getting a degree in a feild of science, either marine or general biology.
Ok, I can see the humor in that. But its all good ~ my dad dropped out after 8th grade - course he's a lot older than you, and it wasn't that uncommon in those days ~ but he's a very successful buisness owner today (should be retired, but he's not). I never put a whole lot of faith in a high school diploma, or a college degree for that matter. I know a guy who makes his living painting who has a masters degree in marine biology, and my little brother, who has no college degree, makes three times as much money as I do in a year welding. The older I get, the more I learn that we learn much of what we need to know in life by doing or experiencing, not so much be reading or being told. You may not have a high school diploma, but you obviously know a whole lot more about coral husbandry than I do

, and it doesn't bother me a bit to ask someone who obviously knows more than I do for help (regardless of what degrees or diplomas they have). Just like it doesn't bother me to tell someone with a doctrite that they're an idiot if they obviously don't know what they're talking about.
After all, its not the endpoint alone, but the journey, as well as what we learn along the way!

 

[el guapo]

I have been told that many of the brightly colored multi colored zoas have been known to just up and die for little or no reason at all . That they will last for a few months than simply shrivle up and die .

I really don't know I am new to the reef thing .

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by iyachtuxivm
http:///forum/post/2617290
just wondering have you tested your magnesium? If thats off it can effect your calc and kh. Im sure you know that just might have slipped your mind, and the water change should fix that anyway.
Thanks iyachtuxivm. I did indeed test my magnesium, and according to the testkit, its were it's supposed to be (that was actually were I figured the problem was, but no luck)

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by EL GUAPO
http:///forum/post/2617679
I have been told that many of the brightly colored multi colored zoas have been known to just up and die for little or no reason at all . That they will last for a few months than simply shrivle up and die .

I really don't know I am new to the reef thing .
Boy I hope not, since I just ordered a bunch more of the high end ones!