help me with ph levels having troble

the reef

Member
i used to have a color test for my ph levels and could never determine where they were wondering why so many fish would get sick then i got a diggital ph pen and now i know why most hard to keep fish are verry sensitive about the ph level verry hardy fish however are more adaptable my first diggital test on my trigger tank was 7.26 and now after adding a buffer for 7 days my ph has gone up to 7.58 and has not dropped my future reef tank however im having troble with my fist test was 7.29 then after adding buffer solution for four days my ph level got up to 7.43 the problem now is i add the buffer every day and the ph started desending at the fifth day went to 7.42 then the next day 7.42 then the next day 7.40 then the next day 7.35 i dont know why?
 

golfish

Active Member
I'd double check your PH meter.... Low PH isn't good, your PH is way way low. Have you calibrated it?
 

the reef

Member
my ph meter is brand new and i follow the instructions on it clean with deionized watter before and after use. the hour after adding the buffer the ph raises but buy the next day does not stabalize
I dont quite know chat calibrate it means that means ? thanks for your help
 

golfish

Active Member
Your PH is way out of wack to say the least. My concern is that your going to raise the PH too high because I just don't see how anybody can have a reading that low unless there's no salt in the water. What's the salinitySG and what are you using to measure it?
Your pH came with some calibtating solutions, right?
 

the reef

Member
i could have low ph level over time becouse i had a color test and could never guess where the ph was at i have had my trigger tank for 3 years and my reef tank for 1 year my ph pen never came with a calibtating solutions im not shure what exaclty they are and this ph thing is the only thing holding me back with progress in saltwater aquaria
 

the reef

Member
Originally Posted by The reef
i could have low ph level over time becouse i had a color test and could never guess where the ph was at i have had my trigger tank for 3 years and my reef tank for 1 year my ph pen never came with a calibtating solutions im not shure what exaclty they are and this ph thing is the only thing holding me back with progress in saltwater aquaria
the sg is 1.022
 

jjlittle

Member
On your reef tank I would use Kalkwasser and you should be able to maintain a ph of 8.0 to 8.3 with no problem it works much better then buffer and also your calcuim will stay nice and level as well just dont get calcuim up to much are alk will drop.There are a couple ways to dose it I use the replacement water from evap is how I replace mine with float valve. It mite be something you should check in to.
 

ctgretzky9

Member
Originally Posted by The reef
i used to have a color test for my ph levels and could never determine where they were wondering why so many fish would get sick then i got a diggital ph pen and now i know why most hard to keep fish are verry sensitive about the ph level verry hardy fish however are more adaptable my first diggital test on my trigger tank was 7.26 and now after adding a buffer for 7 days my ph has gone up to 7.58 and has not dropped my future reef tank however im having troble with my fist test was 7.29 then after adding buffer solution for four days my ph level got up to 7.43 the problem now is i add the buffer every day and the ph started desending at the fifth day went to 7.42 then the next day 7.42 then the next day 7.40 then the next day 7.35 i dont know why?

The problem is you are using buffer to raise pH. Buffer does NOT raise the pH, it is exactly what it states-a buffer. This buffer helps prevent pH drops, and nothing else. It is measured by alkalinity. You measure a buffer as alkalinity, and the actual acidity or base by pH.
I had a hard time with pH until I changed one simple practice-my water changes. Circulating and aerating your change-out water for at least 24 hrs will stabilize the pH on its own. Doing some water changes over the next couple of weeks will get your pH up.
AT the same time, you had better measure your alkalinity right now. I am going to guess it is very high right now with all of that buffer you are adding. Do not add anymore until you get an alkalinity test done! Alkalinity, put simply, is the measurement of your buffer capacity...in other words, how much acid can be added to the tank via waste from the fish and other organics before the pH will begin to drop from an ideal of around 8.2 pH.
A properly buffered tank can withstand a great amount of acid added and still maintain an 8.2.
Next, you need to start measuring your calcium levels as well. There is a relationship between alkalinity, calcium and pH.
You'll get it. I would do the water changes properly, and then get some b-ionic part 1 and 2 (alkalinity and calcium) to use as the buffer. But only add what you test for.
Post back with alk results and calcium results asap and we can help you.
 

the reef

Member
i do calcium test phosphate tests and my new ph pen was a little out of wak so i followed the instructions i put it in a exact ph buffer solution and found my water was not as low as it displayed the first time so i tessted it again and got a ph of more like 7.89 still to low but now knowing what it is is much better. I belive the ro watter i make i need to raise the ph level on it because i think it is taking to many elements out with adding the salt it brings it up to 7.95 ph which is verry understanding why my ph is low im thinking of adding ph up to the buckets of watter i make 2 weeks prior to the watter changes maybe if i can get the ph up on the watter im adding i will only have to add little bit of buffering when i nottice any drop.
Is the kh the alkaline test if so i do have that test and the magnisum test is important so im going to buy that test to. my sg is 1.022 my calcuim is at 550 ppm and my phosphate is at .025 ppm
I add the following pro tech coat once a week, essential elements once a week, pro clear once a week, liquid calcium once a week, stronium & ,molybdenum twice a week, iron once a week, iodine once a week, coral accel 5 times a week, zooplex three times a week, micro vert three times a week, tech m twice a week, coral vite twice a week, phytoplex three times a week, cromaplex twice a week, and cycle twice a week.
adding the invertibra supliment i have nottice more growth with the cleaner shrimp the have both sheded twice in a week and have become more vibrant the blue tang also has a darker shiner body coat and the verry next day from using all of the coral additives i have nottice more color on the live rock. when i started only one of my live rocks i got had the purple color on it now all of the rocks have purple yellow green and orange coloring without unwanted hair alge.
 

ctgretzky9

Member
Are you mixing your makeup water correctly? When you have mixed and aerated, it should be around 8.1-8.2.
7.9 isnt horribile, by the way.
More about that later...
What is your alk level? It is a dkh or a mq/l measurement. This is important.
Your Sg is too low...bring that up to around 1.025.
Again...sounds like your change out water isnt being mixed properly. This will also account for low pH.
For example, instant ocean says to mix 1/2 cup per gallon which will give you a 1.022. This isnt good for reef tanks, however. I also noticed at this mixture, my pH ends up being low too- around 8.0
So I add about a 1/3 cup to 1/2 cup more while it is mixing to bring it up to the values I want. 1.025 and pH of 8.1-8.2
Next, I think you add way too much chemical stuff to your tank. You dont need all of that crap. Your salt mix contains pretty much everything you need. Proper water changes will keep all of the trace elements in check...what salt mix are you using?
When you learn what your buffer requirements are, all you really need is alk and calcium buffers.
Here is a water change direction for you, compiled by all I have learned from bang guy and some other people on this and other boards. Since I have been properly mixing and adding, tank is much better off and stable.
You will need:
-1 cheap powerhead...like a rio 800 or a smaller maxi jet
-1 cheap heater around 100-150 watt
-1 cheap air pump and stone (somewhat optional)
-1 refractometer if you can...(hydrometers should be outlawed)
-5 gal or more bucket for the mixing( you have a 90 gal tank, you may want to look for something in the 10 gal range), another bucket at 5 gal to make it easier to dump in the tank
-salt mix
-good source water-no tap water unless its been tested
-a notepad to track all of your tests
1. fill bucket of any size about half with the water, then add appropriate salt for that amount ( i fill my 5 gal about 3gal worth, then with the instant ocean, I add 1.5 cups of salt) while stirring very well. (Salinity at the rate IO gives you will be around 1.022, thats too low, but more later about that)
Only add the salt to the water, never add water to the salt.
2. Finish adding your water to the bucket, then add appropriate salt again while mixing. At the rate IO gives you (1/2 cup per gallon) your salinity wil be around 1.022. This is when I add about 1/2 cup more to the water in addition to what I've added, and in a 5 gal scenario, it comes out to 1.025, which is about where you want to be.
3. Add powerhead to circulate and airstone to oxygenate (airstone is optional, i like it though)
4. cover and let circulate for around 24 hrs. A couple hours before you will use the replacement water, add the heater. Test salinity after water gets to targeted temperature, which for most is around 80. But acceptable range is around 77-82 give or take, varying opinions from many people.
5. Test salinity. If this is good, I suggest testing this water for ph and alkalinity and calcium and magnesium. This way you know the shortcomings of the mix. DO NOT ADD ANYHING TO THE REPLACEMENT WATER TO ADJUST except salt. It may cause a preciptaion event, which i learned the hard way one day If salinity is too high or too low, either add a little more salt or just unsalted water to adjust. If you must do this, let sit for a little while longer and circulate. Test salinity again.
6. Ready for the change? What I do, is I dump half of the 5gal into another 5 gal bucket, just to make it easier to handle the weight while pouring in. So that's why I have 2. And if you ave purchased a 10 gal mixing bucket or bigger, you could siphon out the water into the 5 gal bucket. You could also use the powerhead (thanks knowse) to pump the water into your tank instead of dumping it in.
7. Drain appropriate amount of water from your tank. Replace with new water.
8. Wait a few hours or so, then test your tank water. Given what you may know is lacking in your replacement water, plus the test on your tank water after replacement, this will give you a good idea what is needed.
Now you can add your b-ionic alk and calcium if needed and any other additives to the tank. Best to wait though to add anythig about 24 hrs and test then. But always test tank water before you add anything, and anything you add, do it slowly. Better to adjust over time than to try and quick fix things.
 

ctgretzky9

Member
Originally Posted by The reef
im thinking of adding ph up to the buckets of watter i make 2 weeks prior to the watter changes maybe if i can get the ph up on the watter im adding i will only have to add little bit of buffering when i nottice any drop.
I just noticed this...2 weeks? You dont need to mix it for that long...24 hrs is usually fine.
I am wondering if this duration is accounting for anything?
:thinking:
Do not add any ph up or any other products to your mix water. Only salt. You may have a precipitation event if you add things to such a small volume of water.
Another note...the buffer PREVENTS the drop. You dont use buffer to raise the pH when you notice a drop. The buffer is what it means...provides a buffer zone.
 

the reef

Member
Originally Posted by ctgretzky9
I just noticed this...2 weeks? You dont need to mix it for that long...24 hrs is usually fine.
I am wondering if this duration is accounting for anything?
:thinking:
Do not add any ph up or any other products to your mix water. Only salt. You may have a precipitation event if you add things to such a small volume of water.
Another note...the buffer PREVENTS the drop. You dont use buffer to raise the pH when you notice a drop. The buffer is what it means...provides a buffer zone.

K I always make my watter when i can so that im not sorry latter on just in case of emergency watter changes. I have a closet that i put all my buckets in and i put a lid on them i have 4 5 gallon buckets of saltwater. two 5 gallon buckets of ro top off watter so I am ready for my sg on a daily baises. and three 5 gallon buckets to drain watter. two 2.5 gallon buckets for eaiser poring. I alwaysed did the half cup per gallon not knowing that a higer sg level is sequential for reef and better for fish only aquariums.
so should i do a 5 gallon a week change out on both tanks or stick to a 10 gallon change out every two weeks and just add half the recomended dose for moylbmen, iron, and so forth between the two week watter chang. and only add calcium and magnisum if to low.
but the other stuff i use like the coral accel and suplemnts for inverts I think im still going to use those on the recomended amout because i have seen better color and faster coraline accel on the roocks. I changed my sg to 1.25 now and see more movement with my triggers and fish in my reef tank. so I think they should outlaw the hydrometer because it says to keep your sg between 1.020 and 1.022 but if in a fish only system the fish are more active in a higher sg why not try to make the sg where they came from. It dosent cost much more to maintain a higher sg so I will never keep my sg lower than 1.024 ever again in any tank.
now about my alkalinity it is to high I know water changes lower it over time. What if I raise my calcium levels to 600 wont that bring my alkalinity down? My alkalinity being so high will try to lower my calcium levels is what i understand I see a drop little by little on my calcium but maybe if i add more calcium above what i want maybe i will see a drop in my alkalinity? cuz my alkalinity is about 210 kh it should be more like 120 kh i think I have over bufferd my alkalintity trying to raise my ph but wont my calcium help raise the ph when it starts combining with alkalinity carbonates and thus raising my ph and lowering my alkalinity at the same time. I heard this thery in a threed somewhere is the ballance of the calcium and alkality and ph is also afected by these two relationships that the alkality carbonats will atach themselves to the calcium thus making a full ion of corse with magnesse to as well. I think why my ph droped a little bit is because my alkality got higher and higher while my calcium would have been to low to support the amount of carbonats so would not react with them just by keeping my calcium higer my ph has gone up a little bit now and I should have tested my alkalinity to see indied if it was higher than i started with I will now moniter it. so I can see if adding the calcium will help lower the alkalinty. In my theary it should becouse I have to add calcum anyway because the alkalinty is eating it up to make its self into the full ions and ph is meshured by this maybe I could bring my ph up to 8.2 or 8.3 after the two have an equil ballance ? then I know if my ph goes down i could check my alkalintiy and calcium to make shure they are in line and only add the dkh if alkaline falls below the desired amout I will keep you informed of this theary ok chat later.
 

bang guy

Moderator
Kh of 210ppm is on the high end but it's not severe.
If it were me I would simply maintain Calcium at 400ppm and let ALK drop naturally via consumption. If you boost your Ca high is will lower ALK through a precipitation event but that's not a healthy way to lower ALK. It would also lower your Magnesium substancially.
 

ctgretzky9

Member
Agreed with bangguy. I just couldnt get the words out lol.
Listen to Guy...he helped me more than anyone else in this hobby. :happy:
 

the reef

Member
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
Kh of 210ppm is on the high end but it's not severe.
If it were me I would simply maintain Calcium at 400ppm and let ALK drop naturally via consumption. If you boost your Ca high is will lower ALK through a precipitation event but that's not a healthy way to lower ALK. It would also lower your Magnesium substancially.
so if i put an air pump in their it will help along with the ion echange to help echange the calcium to the carbonats thus lowering the alk and raising the ph?
also does the carbon I put in my filter afect the carbonate hardness? always wonderd about that.
 

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by The reef
so if i put an air pump in their it will help along with the ion echange to help echange the calcium to the carbonats thus lowering the alk and raising the ph?
I don't know where you got an air pump from my post. :confused:
also does the carbon I put in my filter afect the carbonate hardness?
Nope.
 

the reef

Member
The main problem i having is my ph level still at a stand still and am wondering how to get it up pluse when i check my ph in my ready made saltwater the ph says it is 7.9 and may be a lower reading becaouse the watter is colder then the calibration fluid. but dnot know for shure so what could i do to raise my ph
 
Top