HELP please!!!!!!!! I need HELP!!!!!!!!!!!

tangs rule

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///forum/thread/382996/help-please-i-need-help#post_3346424
No one said the lights were the problem....just trying to find out what the OP has
ANY WAY OP......GET MORE CUC...do MORE water changes...Change your feeding....1 cube daily...no flakes
2 snails is no where near what you need...get some nassarius, cerith and astrea snails asap
+100
More cuc!! Couple dozen hermit crabs, couple dozen cerith & astrea snails! Clams might help, but only slightly and they really work best in a sand bed sump or a refugium. To help bust & remove the red cyano from liverock, use a powerhead and by hand "pressure wash" the rock/areas where it is growing - be prepared to clean it out of all your filter elements and do a partial waterchange after this cleaning too. A good strong powerhead (550-1000gal/hr) with wide-open nozzle in hand and just move it around all the areas where the cyano is growing. It should "lift" off the rock and can be sucked into filtration system (or even drift a fine net around underwater some to "capture" it). Your tank BETTER have grounding probe, cause you would have 1 arm elbow deep in the tank! don't get electrocuted! ! - but once it is off the rock/glass it'll be sucked into filters/netted and those elements can be replaced....and a partial water change to follow.
But to keep it from returning -
1. May want to go back to the older lighting unit till water parameters improve - IE (phosphates or PO4) are way down from where they are now. The Nitrates are likely high too, and less feeding more cuc will help these come down with good water changes over the comming days/weeks. Also a shorter daytime cycle AND a slightly lower temp by a degree or 2 can help slow cyano growth as well, but tank water quality MUST have much lower PO4 levels (like .1 or less with 0 ideal) Good RO/DI water to start with is a MUST too, as tap usually has some PO4 levels in it to start with, and tap water can vary season to season as city water may come from different sources throught the year....
2. All cyano blooms need
high PO4 & nitrates, and light (espically red shifted) to do well. Reduce these parameters. Also, did the new lighting unit come with HIGH Quality BRAND NAME bulbs in it or poorer "no name" 10,000k and actinic bulbs.....Some "no name" china made bulbs have a very high red spectrum spike in them regardless of output Kelvin rating - and even new are of poorer quality than worn out Coralife/Current brand bulbs.....been there done that - I have tried to save $$ by getting cheep china made HQI & compact flourescent bulbs, only to have an alage bloom within 3 days of installing them. They can be 1/3 the cost but are junk in my experience. The eye cannot see the high red light spike, but alage loves some
of those chinese bulbs - cause I've seen the results.
If the bulb does not
have a reputible manufacture name on it or is blank, it may
be suspect.. Research what bulbs came with it - beware no printing on it anywhere, plastic base included.. A good reputable brand name like Current, Coralife, Oceanic, AquaticLife, etc. printed somewhere would be best. You can research who makes the best ones for future reference - they'll need changing in 6-8 months anyway. Currently, water quality IS the biggest cause for the cyano outbreak, but poor (high red shift) light quality can help cyano and green hair to grow too..just FYI.....
For right now water quality sounds like cause of this bloom. Get that under control 1st and see how things do - - less light/less feeding/more cuc/PO4 to .1 or less, Nitrates to .2 or less/ maybe drop temp a deg or 2/maybe shorten the day cycle by 2 hours for the time being.... This should help for sure! ! !
Just my $.02
 
my sandbed is about 6" deep
I mentioned the Clams because I thought that thae could also be added as part of my CUC
IMO I would rather have fat healthy fish and do lots of water changes than have unhappy fish and clean water
(p.s. I haven't been running a skimmer because i need a new one does any one have a suggestion for an in sump skimmer thats under $200)
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by clown-keeper99 http:///forum/thread/382996/help-please-i-need-help/20#post_3346717
my sandbed is about 6" deep
I mentioned the Clams because I thought that thae could also be added as part of my CUC
IMO I would rather have fat healthy fish and do lots of water changes than have unhappy fish and clean water
(p.s. I haven't been running a skimmer because i need a new one does any one have a suggestion for an in sump skimmer thats under $200)

Do yourself a huge favor...go get yourself a book so you can understand that filthy water is not a happy fat fish. What you land up with is a fat dead fish. Do you have a big brother named Wayner?
 
I have been doing 4x daily feeding for the past 3 YEARS and NEVER had an issue like this before and may water was PERFECT (nitrates less than and low PO4, less tha .1 ppm)
I change about 5 gallons every week
and like i said before i don't feed the entire cube, i spread it out the entire day and i feed very little flakes
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by clown-keeper99 http:///forum/thread/382996/help-please-i-need-help/20#post_3346722
I have been doing 4x daily feeding for the past 3 YEARS and NEVER had an issue like this before and may water was PERFECT (nitrates less than and low PO4, less tha .1 ppm)
I change about 5 gallons every week
and like i said before i don't feed the entire cube, i spread it out the entire day and i feed very little flakes

Then my dear please explain the title of your thread HELP please!!!!! I NEED HELP!!!!!!! All because you have been forced to do daily water changes and still you have cyanobacteria and an out of control algae problem. If you think what you are doing is correct and your tank perfect why scream for help? Your bad fish keeping has caught up to you. The next step is a full crash.
A wise man once said: "If you keep doing the things you are doing, you will keep having the same problems you are having." I don't know the wise man’s name, but it just makes sense. I suppose young Wayner type young person, that each day from now on you will post how a crash has not yet occurred as you still insist on feeding your fish 4Xs a day and have 2 snails to as a CUC..
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by clown-keeper99 http:///forum/thread/382996/help-please-i-need-help#post_3346322
With the new light i got i spark a huge cyno bloom
I have been doing waterchanges everyday
for the past week and it is not going away
any help would be great
Thanks
clown-keeper99
(p.s. as you may know I am only 14 and I can't aford a UV sterilizer)
I understand you are 14, but you are very hard headed and won't do what we tell you will help.
 
and speaking of books I'm useing th feeding stratagies stated by scott w. michle in his books
my lights are (well the bulbs that came with it anyway) are truelumens if that makes a diiference
as you said that you only feed one cube a day is almost the same as what i feed 9 fish (I feed about a cube and a half a day)
 
S

smartorl

Guest
Well, it sounds like you are asking for help and shooting down all adivce so I won't even attempt to re-write out all of the excellent advice you have been given. I will say one thing, I am surprised that anything is alive in your tank and to ask you to please step down from that teenage place of "all knowing" and read the advice given while there is still time.
 
I know I don't know everything
I just seams that I started to get alot of flak when I asked about the clams
And with my feeding a wasn't the clearest.
I feed a 3.5 ounce cube 3 times over the coarse of a day and I mix in three different types of food
So I'm sorry I've been a bit of of a blockhead, and i will try to be more open to Ideas
 
S

smartorl

Guest
I have cleaner clams. They can be in addition to your clean up crew but not replace it. Right now, you need to beef up your snails and hermits (all don't like hermits).
You can add the clams, they won't hurt, but they are a band aid on a bullet wound unless you address the source of your problem, which is undoubtedly your feeding schedule. Step back the feeding until you get this under control. If the tank crashed, you won't have any fish to breed so addressing the problem needs to come first. As stated, toss the flake.
When you change the water, try and syphon off as much cyano as you can.
 

tangs rule

Active Member
Let's get to the basics. Until things stabilize, and more cuc (snails/hermits) arrives lets try some things, and please answer the following:
[list type=decimal]
[*]
Do you have RO/DI watermaker unit (y or no)
[*]
If no, do you get RO/DI water locally and mix your salt (y/n) or are u buying premixed saltwater at LFS?
[*]
If you test a fresh batch of saltwater (no matter how u get it), what nitrate and phoshpate levels you get? ____NO4 ; ____PO4
[*]
Are u using tap water, and just filtering it thru partical units? Or a real 3 or 4 stage RO/DI ($225) unit with a DI membrane? (y/n)
[*]
Until DT water quality comes up, can u go back to old (dim) lighting unit - for now, just to curb & slow alage & cyano bloom? (yes/no)
Has somthing died in the tank - coral/snail/anything? SEARCH AROUND BEFORE ANSWERING PLEASE (y/n)
Can you cut your feeding ammount by 1/2 or more for a few days while this straightens out? (Y/N)
Does this tank get ANY direct sunlight? (y/n)
What is tank capacity, I didn't see that one? ____gal. And is there a refugium installed? (y/n) {a fuge is a seperate small tank connected to main where we grow seaweed/macro alage. Main tank water slowly flows thru it and back into main/display tank}
What is main tank temp? ____F
[/list type=decimal]
I'll research the new light bulbs, but lets start with #1 above and move from there. These are the 1st 10 questions I need to see whats going on....Also what type
of tests for NO4/PO4 are you using? dip-type strips or chemical drops and what brand? - also check any expiration dates printed on the bottles too. I'll try to help if these questions are answered..
 

meowzer

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by clown-keeper99 http:///forum/thread/382996/help-please-i-need-help/20#post_3346746
I know I don't know everything
I just seams that I started to get alot of flak when I asked about the clams
And with my feeding a wasn't the clearest.
I feed a 3.5 ounce cube 3 times over the coarse of a day and I mix in three different types of food
So I'm sorry I've been a bit of of a blockhead, and i will try to be more open to Ideas
LOL...You did not get flack about the clams......I was trying to tell you that your need OTHER things...then you came back and said you would do clams anyway
fine, get clams...BUT GET the snails too.....
 

tangs rule

Active Member
It’s bedtime, but here are some more thoughts:



On water changes (for example) - a 100 gal main tank and 5 gallons per week change will only yeild a 5% reduction in NO4 & PO4 - that ain't much.....cause all the bad water values will only drop by 5%. . If your phosphates are .33ppm, they will only drop to .30 after a 5% w/c in 100 gal system…I do a 20 - 25% waterchange every 7-10 days - my bad water numbers will drop by 20-25%......If I skip a extra week, now I gotta do like 50% (50 gallons) to get back to the same values I want to get. OR I do 2 each 25 gal changes on consecutive days to get back down....I think some books suggest at least 10% a week and many books view 15-20% weekly as a baseline.....and that's when everything is "normal"!!!! When u get BAD water i.e. PO4 above .3ppm - NO4 higher than 30ppm, or ammonia above 1.0 it's gonna take 20% water changes daily to get that down - and that's AFTER we discover the reason things are so high to begin with. Also the new water going IN must be near zero (0) NO4/PO4/NH3 to get this effect. There are phosphate removing pads & solutions, but I cannot speak to their effectiveness, I don’t use them.
fish load versus tank size and setup:
it's really hard to have more than 10 inches, total fish length in a 100 gal volume tank (or 5" in 50 gal) (that’s every single fish in the tank, length added up to X) Especially if you have meat eating type fish......I do keep very high fish loadings, but i've also got refugiums, LOTS of cleanup crew in each tank, an average of 2000+ gph powerhead flow, 700 - 1000 gallon/hr filtration, about 1lb liverock per gallon, 4-6 watts HQI lighting per gallon, chillers on every tank, and lots of gravel substrate (on all 3 tanks with about 100 gal each) and it still gets challenging sometimes!
And MOST IMPORNTANT!!!
I’d NEVER EVER EVER add anything from someone else’s tank to my mains with fish in my tanks…..either pull the fish OUT and get them their own "bare bones" hotel tank for a while so any diseases/parasites that hitchhike in with the new clean up crew don’t make hosts of your fish….or quarantine ANY new arrivals for a month+ in their own tank prior to adding them to the main……Most large distributors of marine livestock have HUGE
systems, interconnected
and they are hotbeds for parasites/disease
. Just cause you get clams & snails DOES NOT MEAN
tiny fish borne problems are not present. Most fish illness & parasites are invisible to human eyes, till they show up in mass numbers on your fish and kill them in short order….. People loose more fish in stable systems cause a single drop of water from another contaminated system made it in, and brought with it LOTS of new problems
. I speak from experience!! Quarantine everything or expect many new problems, some fatal to your fishes!!!
 
all right everyone I found my issue
The water that I was using for water changes has the same amount of phosphates as the tank does (it must be somthing with my well)
so know I am doing waterganges with the ro filter we use for drinking which has no trase of phosphates
I also added a corallife 65g protien skimmer
 
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