Help Please

[scarke]

I'm new to this posting thing, but I read the posts all the time. I really need some advice from someone. My husband and I are new to the saltwater hobby. We have a 55 gal and a 30 gal. The problem is with our 55 gal. Yesterday afternoon I noticed that my horse shoe crab wasn't acting right. This morning he was dead. It was time for the scheduled water change so I started cleaning the tank while my husband went and got the RO water. While I was cleaning up the tank I found the remains of one of the hermit crabs and of a mithrax crab in one of the caves we have. After the water change, my flame angel started acting weird. Continuosly wedging himself between rocks. If I move the rocks he swims away, but wedges somewhere else. Now I notice that my yellow tang has one cloudy eye and his fins are shredded looking. We didn't know that the tank is technically too small for him until we got on this blog site.

Any ideas why these two are acting the way they are?
The salinity is 1.022
Phosphate is 0.25
Ammonia is 0
Nitrate is 0
Nitrite is 0
pH is 7.8- which I think is low, but I don't have anything to bring it up and the closest fish store is an hour away. By the way all the tests were done before the water change.
The group that we have are 1 yellow tang, 1 mono strip angel, 1 flame angel (that I believe isn't going to make it), 1 yellow jawed goby, 1 lawn mower blenny, and 4 blue chromis, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 coral banded chrimp, 2 mexican turbo snails, and now 1 hermit crab. Oh, and about 4 days ago I had a double saddled butterfly to die suddenly. Any ideas?

 

[meowzer]

FIRST...WELCOME TO SWF
How do you mix your water??? You said it was time for a w/c and sent your husband for ro....
I also think you should test the water now....

 

[scarke]

We mix the RO water w/ salt in a huge tub and bring it up to temp before we add it to the sump and the tank. We check the water before adding it in. The salinity is now 1.022, the nitrate is 0, the ammonia is 0, the nitrite is 0, and the pH is still 7.8 By the way we also have about 65# live rock and 40# of live sand. The angel is now just laying on the backside of the rocks breathing pretty rapid

He's my favorite of course.

 

[mr.clownfish]

could be a bacterial infection. or ick

 

[scarke]

I forgot to mention that after we were done, I added some seaweed on a clip that had soaked in Garlic Guard for about five minutes and the tang wouldn't go near it. I changed it out with regular seaweed and he was much happier

I've been adding the Garlic Gaurd to the tank in the past about once a week. Could that cause a problem? Also been adding vita chem about once a week. Did I mess up with the Garlic Gaurd?

 

[scarke]

I just noticed the tang trying to slide between 2 rocks to get to a cave where the cleaner shrimp is. Usually goes in thru the opening in the back of the aquarium. Could this be why his fins are torn looking? It the dorsal fin and the ones on his side.

 

[meowzer]

Any possibility you could get a picture????
ANd I do not see garlic guard killing fish...I have used it before...

 

[olemiss]

I always thought you were supposed to let new water mix for at least 24 hours otherwise it harms the fish.

 

[meowzer]

Originally Posted by OleMiss
http:///forum/post/3083263
I always thought you were supposed to let new water mix for at least 24 hours otherwise it harms the fish.
YES, I believe undissolved salt is bad for fish....that is why I asked how they did it......
SO...you are saying that you buy the ro....mix the salt into it...bring up temp, and put in tank....correct?
You do not pre-mix in a large container with a power head over night

 

[oceanboy13]

first off when did you start the tank number 2 in my opinion that's alot of fish for the 55 gallon but those are my thoughts (can't say much i do the same thing)

but anyways and like the other ppl said u should let the water mix overnight before u add it to the tank

 

[scarke]

I can't get a picture. We moved late last year and in the process I lost my camera. Coulda' bought a new one with all the $$$ that's gone into this new hobby though. We didn't know that we were suppose to let the water sit for 24 hours before adding it to the tank. We have an electric hand mixer that we use to mix the RO water and the salt with. Everyone else in the tank is doing fine and the tang is acting fine. The flame angel is now breathing pretty heavy though. He's moved from one rock to another in the back of the tank. I guess he's not going to make it. Do you think the water is what caused him to go south? Any ideas about the 2 crabs and the butterfly?

 

[scarke]

Originally Posted by oceanboy13
http:///forum/post/3083283
first off when did you start the tank number 2 in my opinion that's alot of fish for the 55 gallon but those are my thoughts (can't say much i do the same thing)

but anyways and like the other ppl said u should let the water mix overnight before u add it to the tank
We didn't start tank #2 until March. It's primarily a coral tank. With the butterfly that we used to have we couldn't keep any coral with him around. It has 2 black and white clown fish in it and they're really territorial with their tank. They love the hammer coral that we have in it. We didn't know they would be so stingy with their space.
We were given a 10 gallon tank today that we thought we would use as a QT tank, but doesn't it need to cycle?

 

[flower]

Just jumping in here...if your water was testing PH at 7.8..which by the way is fresh water. The SG can't be 1.022
I believe
Either the PH test kit is off or the hydometer is not working properly. Either one of these misreading would cause your fish to breath heavy and critters start to die.
Have your water tested at the LFS...take your PH test and hydometer with you. Have them test their water with your stuff and see if they match. I did this...my hydometer was reading off the chart at the LFS. If they balanced the water by that hydometer it would have been fresh water...7.8

 

[olemiss]

Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3083336

Just jumping in here...if your water was testing PH at 7.8..which by the way is fresh water. The SG can't be 1.022
I believe
Either the PH test kit is off or the hydometer is not working properly. Either one of these misreading would cause your fish to breath heavy and critters start to die.
Have your water tested at the LFS...take your PH test and hydometer with you. Have them test their water with your stuff and see if they match. I did this...my hydometer was reading off the chart at the LFS. If they balanced the water by that hydometer it would have been fresh water...7.8
Hydrometers are notoriously inaccurate, time for a refractometer upgrade. New toy

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by OleMiss
http:///forum/post/3083344
Hydrometers are notoriously inaccurate, time for a refractometer upgrade. New toy

OP needs help fast on what can be the cause of dying fish and inverts. If it is the hydometer, they need to check and make sure and immediatly get busy to up the SG

 

[scarke]

The bad thing is the closest LFS is an hour away and the soonest I can get there is tomorrow afternoon. Do you think that is what happened to both the crabs and the butterfly? I can understand the butterfly, but I was really surprised to find the crabs. I thought they were pretty hardy.
I guess a new toy won't be a bad thing, but all the lessons we've learned has been costly. BTW the angel is gone.

 

[auroradrvr]

pH and Specific Gravity have very little corelation. You can have 1.026 and a pH of 7.5, you can also have 1.009sg and 8.3pH.
Also, FWIW, you can use baking soda to raise pH in a pinch. However, I would work on adding aeration to your tank. Add a powerhead or two and aim them towards the surface of the tank.
All that said, I do NOT believe the pH being 7.8 is an issue. Though it is low (and needs to be worked on a raised) it won't kill fish. When was the last time you added a new fish or crab or coral to the tank? I am thinking you are having secondary issues with some sort of infection, rather than pH/SG issues. While I agree you should get a refractometer, 1.022 isn't going to kill fish or inverts. Neither is 7.8pH.
Take it slow, and SLOWLY raise those two figures. A quick change in either will be much, much more detrimental than having them low in there first place.

 

[olemiss]

Originally Posted by AuroraDrvr
http:///forum/post/3083365
pH and Specific Gravity have very little corelation. You can have 1.026 and a pH of 7.5, you can also have 1.009sg and 8.3pH.
Also, FWIW, you can use baking soda to raise pH in a pinch. However, I would work on adding aeration to your tank. Add a powerhead or two and aim them towards the surface of the tank.
Baking soda is a sure fire way to nuke your tank if you do not know what you are doing. powerheads- good idea

 

[auroradrvr]

Originally Posted by OleMiss
http:///forum/post/3083378
Baking soda is a sure fire way to nuke your tank if you do not know what you are doing. powerheads- good idea
So is Kalkwasser and every other pH increasing product. Hell, you can nuke your tank with RO water if you really wanted to, also.
Like everything else we add to our tanks, it needs to be done in moderation and with restraint. Add a little, test the pH. Add a little more, test the pH again.

 

[scarke]

The last things I added to the tank was the yellow tang and the flame angel about 3 weeks ago. I have 2 powerheads on each end of the tanks. One is pointing toward the front and the other is pointing toward the back. Besides the sump underneath I have a bakpak protein skimmer. The only thing that I have not being used is a bubble bar that we bought for this tank before we purchased the protein skimmer.
How does the baking soda thing work? How much should I add and should I add it tonight or cross my fingers and wait until I can get to a LFS tomorrow? Wouldn't baking soda be a more natural thing for the fish instead of any chemicals that the LFS would have? Just asking, I'm new to the problems part of this hobby. We've had good luck so far.