HELP quickly please - BABIES!

[sueandherzoo]

Thanks, Tom. . . I never find your posts to be "rambling" - instead I absorb all the information you provide and am sure will recall it several times in the next few months.
Good to hear about the "false positive" readings after usingn ammo lock - that might be what was happening because I can't IMAGINE ow I could have had so much ammonia in an EMPTY tank!
I've got the 10 running with a HOB and with a sponge filter (the HOB has ChemiPure Elite in it) so even if these guys don't make it I will keep the tank up and running for the next "surprise".
Yes, I have gone through TONS of water this past week and I'm not even dealing with a juvi tank yet. The biggest hurdle with that is the physical one.... we have four levels in our house and I keep the big water supply in the basement (near t RO/DI) and then a smaller supply in the kitchen (third level where two tanks are) yet the horse tank and fry tank are on the second level. Building some good muscle!

I ordered (and should have today, I HOPE) one of those HOB brine shrimp hatchers..... any experience with those? It would at least help me skip one step of the many involved in this madness. (albeit self-induced madness).
Regarding the Ammonia Alert that hangs in the tank, I had one a few months ago that didn't seem to work - perhaps I got a bad one or they wear out after a while? Maybe I'll try again.
Keep the helpful tips coming - I'm like sponge at this point.
Sue

 

[dustyboy316]

Originally Posted by SueAndHerZoo
http:///forum/post/2918522
Thanks, Tom. . . I never find your posts to be "rambling" - instead I absorb all the information you provide and am sure will recall it several times in the next few months.
Good to hear about the "false positive" readings after usingn ammo lock - that might be what was happening because I can't IMAGINE ow I could have had so much ammonia in an EMPTY tank!
I've got the 10 running with a HOB and with a sponge filter (the HOB has ChemiPure Elite in it) so even if these guys don't make it I will keep the tank up and running for the next "surprise".
Yes, I have gone through TONS of water this past week and I'm not even dealing with a juvi tank yet. The biggest hurdle with that is the physical one.... we have four levels in our house and I keep the big water supply in the basement (near t RO/DI) and then a smaller supply in the kitchen (third level where two tanks are) yet the horse tank and fry tank are on the second level. Building some good muscle!

I ordered (and should have today, I HOPE) one of those HOB brine shrimp hatchers..... any experience with those? It would at least help me skip one step of the many involved in this madness. (albeit self-induced madness).
Regarding the Ammonia Alert that hangs in the tank, I had one a few months ago that didn't seem to work - perhaps I got a bad one or they wear out after a while? Maybe I'll try again.
Keep the helpful tips coming - I'm like sponge at this point.
Sue

Yah the ammonia alerts do have a lifespan. I'm guessing 6 months or so, same as a hydrometer prob. Speaking of that I really need a new hydrometer or refractometer, mine is terribly off, I know it.

 

[dive girl]

Sorry for the quick hijack.

Tom, I also appreciate your posts. I learn something from each one I read. I love forums, I learn so much more reading them than just a book (though that does give me a foundation) because there are so many other things that 'happen' that never seem to be in a book. The surprises of life.
Thanks Sue for sharing your experience. Because you've taken the time to post and ask questions, there are many of us that are learning as you are.

I wish you the best with your little ones. Each day I feel apprehension until I read this thread to find out how the little ones are doing.

 

[sueandherzoo]

Awwwwww shucks - this has been such a great experience, not just the seahorse fry raising and the knowledge I'm gaining, but also the friends I've made who've tagged along for the ride. I hope we get to do this again real soon.

 

[rykna]

WOW!!! What an adventure. Do you any more pics of the little kiddos?

 

[sueandherzoo]

Sadly I think this adventure is over. The numbers have been dwindling rapidly over the past couple of days and the two that were still hanging in there last night didn't look too strong or healthy. I couldn't find them at all this morning (doesn't mean they aren't hiding behind a sponge or in a plastic plant) but I don't hold out much hope that I will find them at lunchtime when I do a water change. I dropped some live BBS in there this morning..... just in case.
I'm sad, but not as much as I thought I would be. I gave it my best shot and the only thing I even remotely regret is wondering if I caused any of them to suffer by trying to keep them alive. Perhaps it would have been better for them to all have perished a week ago rather than prolonging the inevitable? I'll never know and couldn't NOT try, but I feel badly that perhaps the past week wasn't as "pleasant" for them as it was for me to watch them.
This story isn't over - it's just in "intermission" till my guy gives me another surprise. Hopefully I'm a LOT more ready and lknowledgable this time.
Sue

 

[nw2salt08]

You're definitely more knowledgable now having experienced this. Now you'll know to do some things a little differently for the next batch and be more prepared. This is wonderful for someone like me. I get to learn from reading everyone's experiences. I appreciate you posting this and sharing this adventure. I have faith that things will work out for you in the future on this.

 

[rykna]

We'll all be here for you Sue!!!

 

[dcoyle11]

thanks for the ride/read...

 

[sueandherzoo]

Ugh - they just keep keeping me on an emotional rollercoaster. Just when I finally accepted that they were all gone and could now "take a break" from that labor-intensive act of love, I started cleaning the nursery tank and found one fry, barely alive. It took me quite some time to figure out if he/she was alive or dead but there was the tiniest glimmer of life if you stared closely enough and long enough. I placed him/her in a container of tank water and pumped some baby brine shrimp in there. I placed the container on top of my reef tank (for a little warmth) and went to bed. I really didn't have the heart to peek in there this morning but will check it out during lunch and probably get my heart-broken again. Still - wouldn't trade the experience for anything and look forward to doing it again.
One of the things I would like to change for next time (but not sure there is any way to do this) is to create an environment where they are more easily visible! They are so tiny and blend in so well with the tank environment (filter intakes/sponges/hitching posts/sea fans, etc.) It's hard to get a good head count or to know when you've missed one and I'm always paranoid when one appears to be missing that it might have traveled out of the tank on my hand or the side of the baster - they could be under my wedding ring for all I know! Perhaps I should paint everything WHITE, but I know that's not feasible. I guess that should be the least of my worries but when you watch so closely for survivors it would be nice to get an accurate head count each time.
Sue

 

[reefnutpa]

Hi Sue,
First of all, you have done something the last week or so that very few people are fortunate enough to have experienced. Having seahorses in your care, having them be comfortable enough/healthy enough to reproduce, having them bless you with a brood of fry, giving you the thrilling experience of caring for those fry...whether successfully in your first attempts or not.... is something that few people across the land can say they have experienced. Be proud of yourself no matter the outcome of this brood, stay strong, and prepare for the next brood of fry... which could be in a few weeks, months or far in the future.
Secondly, as I had mentioned in the past, NOW is the time to set up the next fry tank and get those sponge filters cycling. With an established bio-filter in the tank, keeping water quality in check is sooo much easier and it's half the battle in rearing fry.
I e-mailed you pics of the sponge filters I use the other day. They are Hydro sponge filters. You can partially see by the pics I sent how empty the tank is, with the exception of the sponge filter. I have two or three small thin-branched fake plants in there for hitching and nothing else. While I don't see the harm in a HOB filter, I don't see an advantage either. The HOB filter will remove lots of bbs before it's eaten, which you do not want. It may also keep debris suspended in the water column, which you also don't want - you want it to fall to the bottom where it can be siphoned out during the day. Once the fry are a few weeks old, yes, a HOB filter will help keep the water clear of larger debris/detritus...but for newly born fry I don't see a real advantage. Just a thought for you.
As far as cycling the sponge filter(s) for the next fry tank, I personally do not like cycling them in an existing tank. Reason being, if there are hidden hydroids or any nasties/pathogens in the aged tank you risk introducing them into the sterile fry tank via the filter. It is much better to set up a sterile tank, add the new filter(s) to the sterile tank and cycle them in there. Using either the "ammonia method" or by adding something like pinches of flake food or the like to the tank to start an ammonia spike. I prefer NOT using dead shrimp or such, as many suggest. Reason is, who knows what bacteria can cultivate as a carcass is rotting in a tank
There are quite a few hobbyists on this website and others who have successfully raised a variety of seahorse species. We all do things differently - yet overall the end results are the same. We set up different types of fry systems, use different filtration methods, feed differently, clean differently, etc. Yet, we have the same final results - good, clean water for the fry, nutritious foods, and growing fry.
When I first tried my hand at raising fry, I failed. Each brood lived longer and I learned from each batch of fry. I kept reading and learning from others, and tweeked my system to better suit me and the time I had available. Over time, and honestly hundreds of fry, things are looking up. I still have a dozen or so 9 month olds I haven't parted with yet, about a dozen 3 months old and a few dozen that are 2 weeks old I believe. I cull heavily, as many do, and concentrate on those swimming well and not those floating at the top or laying on the bottom.
I could tell you exactly how I do everything - but that doesn't mean it will work for you. Other could do the same, but their way of doing things may not work for you either. Unfortunately, the fry-rearing experience is a continual learning experience. And as difficult as it may be, it will be through failures that you will learn. You will adjust things after each failure, you will learn what works for you and what doesn't, and you won't repeat those errors. It's all about learning and trying different things. And it'll be up to you to tackle all those ups and downs.
Always remember, if rearing seahorse fry were easy.... captive bred seahorses would be as plentiful as common feeder goldfish - and would cost the same 10cents versus the $50+ they cost now
Just by reading your posts here and elsewhere, I am confident you are in this for the long haul and you WILL be successful.... so never give up.
Best of luck!
Tom
p.s. Sorry for another one of my rambling posts!

 

[teresaq]

Tom, your posts are always great. I would love to see a thread on your fry tanks. I too am preparing for my first brood. I thought he was pregers, but now I dnnt think so. I finally have them in their permanent tank so maybe in a few months. I now need to clean my QT tank and start cycling for fry. I have two lrg sponge filters get ready.
TeresaQ

 

[sueandherzoo]

Hi Tom.
I agree - I feel blessed to have had this opportunity and you also pointed out a factor that I hadn't even considered . . . my adults are happy and healthy to have produced offspring. That in itself is very rewarding!
I went out and bought a sponge filter right after I received your e-mail and it's been running in the fry tank ever since. I'm actually going to leave some of the debris in the tank until this weekend to try and get some ammonia (and thus a cycle) going and then I'll clean the bottom, do a water change, and leave it all running in preparation for another brood. And I think I'll take the HOB filter out, at least for now, since you make some very good points. It will certainly give me one less thing to clean while providing a part of the tank where the fry can get some peace and rest.
I have read and will continue to read the trials and tribulations of all the others who have successfully (and unsuccessfully) raised seahorse fry but, like you said, I will end up tweaking and creating a system that works for me and fits into my schedule. And someday I, too, will be sharing it as hopefully a success story.

Culling. There's a concept I'll have to wrap my logic around and work on. This first group was such an unexpected and miraculous surprise that I would have given each one mouth-to-mouth if I thought it would help, but from a practical (and kindness) standpoint I really should learn to "remove" the weak and the sick right away rather than jeapordizing the whole brood. (good luck with that one, Susan!)
Now that I've experienced this there is no way I could give up on trying again. It was far too thrilling and amazing. The raising of BBS still seems like the biggest headache to me but as I do it more often I'm sure it will become second nature. Still, having yet another room of the house looking like a science lab doesn't thrill me.

You're right again -- if raising seahorse fry were easy I'd probably have no interest in doing it. I've always loved a challenge and have been successful in the majority of the ones I take on so having not succeeded this time is actually quite humbling. Chalk up another one on the "learning side" of this venture.
Please come along and "ramble" in my threads any time you want - you are a welcome pleasure and a wealth of knowledge and experience. And be forewarned - I now have your e-mail address so the next time you may get some urgent pleas for help arriving directly into your mailbox.

Sue

 

[pumper]

I think you did a great job of trying to keep the fry happy. They probably had a better chance of surviving in your hands rather than in the wild.