HELP quickly please - BABIES!
- Thread starter sueandherzoo
- Start date
dive girl
Member
Sue I'm thinking of you and your little babies!
I know what you mean about spending too much time away from your tank. Sometimes I think about setting my laptop up near one of my tanks so that I can use the webcam during the day. When I come downstairs in the morning, I check my tank before making coffee! I'm hooked!
I can't imagine what it will be like when I get my horses!
I know what you mean about spending too much time away from your tank. Sometimes I think about setting my laptop up near one of my tanks so that I can use the webcam during the day. When I come downstairs in the morning, I check my tank before making coffee! I'm hooked!
sueandherzoo
Active Member
It's so nice to have you all take this journey with me - thank you! I have two big issues, though, that I could use help with.
1. In my haste, desperation, and lack of knowledge on Saturday when driving all over to find brine shrimp eggs I finally got home with them, dumped the contents of the package into a gallon container of salt water, dropped in an airstone, and waited. I know that I have hatched stuff in there (thank goodness for magnifying glasses) so I just stick a turkey baster into the bottom of it and suck some up to put in the nursery. However, I'm sure I am getting lots of other stuff, too, just not sure what it is. Maybe the shells or maybe some sort of "sand" that the eggs came packaged in? I'm guessing there is a better way to harvest the BBS and will be building a hatchery this weekend but am I hurting the horses by having this other miniscule stuff in their tank with them?
2. More importantly, I can't keep the ammonia levels down in the nursery! I would THINK that this wouldn't be an issue.... the fry together don't equal the size of one small fish and the amount of food I feed them is smaller than them, so why so much ammonia!?!?!?!?
I checked it last night and found it high so did a 60% water change (at midnight) and at 1:00 a.m. it was still pretty high. Needing to take a "nap" before getting up for work I threw a small amount of some anti-ammonia stuff in there (fizzing tablet?) and hoped for the best. I was pretty sure I'd find them all dead this morning but there they were - the little troopers, still flitting around the tank. I again am expecting I will find them gone when I go home for lunch, but if not, what can I do differently to keep the ammonia in check? There's not enough "life" in there to be causing ammonia!
I have a bare bottom, (the tank, not me!) one plastic plant and one seafan. I have a HOB filter going, and a heater. Nothing else. Heck, people keep huge goldfish in 10 gallon tanks without this kind of issue - what's going on????
Sue
1. In my haste, desperation, and lack of knowledge on Saturday when driving all over to find brine shrimp eggs I finally got home with them, dumped the contents of the package into a gallon container of salt water, dropped in an airstone, and waited. I know that I have hatched stuff in there (thank goodness for magnifying glasses) so I just stick a turkey baster into the bottom of it and suck some up to put in the nursery. However, I'm sure I am getting lots of other stuff, too, just not sure what it is. Maybe the shells or maybe some sort of "sand" that the eggs came packaged in? I'm guessing there is a better way to harvest the BBS and will be building a hatchery this weekend but am I hurting the horses by having this other miniscule stuff in their tank with them?
2. More importantly, I can't keep the ammonia levels down in the nursery! I would THINK that this wouldn't be an issue.... the fry together don't equal the size of one small fish and the amount of food I feed them is smaller than them, so why so much ammonia!?!?!?!?
I checked it last night and found it high so did a 60% water change (at midnight) and at 1:00 a.m. it was still pretty high. Needing to take a "nap" before getting up for work I threw a small amount of some anti-ammonia stuff in there (fizzing tablet?) and hoped for the best. I was pretty sure I'd find them all dead this morning but there they were - the little troopers, still flitting around the tank. I again am expecting I will find them gone when I go home for lunch, but if not, what can I do differently to keep the ammonia in check? There's not enough "life" in there to be causing ammonia!
I have a bare bottom, (the tank, not me!) one plastic plant and one seafan. I have a HOB filter going, and a heater. Nothing else. Heck, people keep huge goldfish in 10 gallon tanks without this kind of issue - what's going on????
Sue
dingus890
Member
Seahorses are unlike any other fish as they are very messy and poop twice as much.Also the ammonia spike could be from the tank being so new and not having enough bacteria yet.As for the ammonia tablet,never use chemicals like that in salt tanks.It may lower the ammonia for a short time but than it could spike up really fast and kill the fry from shock.
Even if you lose them all you did and are doing everything you can.And you will be that much more ready next time one of your horses has babies.
What a joy to have little baby seahorses even if your time is short with them.Just don't forget about your larger horses
I am so hoping some of them pull through but with the Ammonia so high I am worried.
Even if you lose them all you did and are doing everything you can.And you will be that much more ready next time one of your horses has babies.
What a joy to have little baby seahorses even if your time is short with them.Just don't forget about your larger horses
I am so hoping some of them pull through but with the Ammonia so high I am worried.
sueandherzoo
Active Member
I'm home for lunch now (funny that I call it lunch - I spend the hour taking care of critters and making sure they are all happy and healthy and fed - leaves me no time to eat!) I seem to have lost a few (even though I don't see any bodies) but the majority of them are still alive.
When I check them mid-day they are always very dark grey/black but in the morning and at night they are more tan and translucent. Yes, I was able to see some orange areas on some of the bellies last night but there's no way of seeing that when they are dark like now.
I guess ReefNut answered one of my questions even before I asked it - apparently even that tiny amount of "speckling" on the bottom of the tank can produce ammonia. Hard to believe when I see some people keep huge fish in small tanks with very little cleaning or filtration! I've got a knee-high stocking over the intake of the filter so pulling that off a few times a day and rinsing it off might help a lot. Maybe I should even stir up the stuff on the bottom and then rinse the stocking when it's all captured. It's so hard to siphon or do water changes with these tiny creatures in there. I check my hands so carefully whenever I take them out of that tank, these little guys can be hiding under a ring!
OK, no more anti-ammonia chemicals but it was a desperate measure in the middle of the night to hopefully save them till I could find an alternate fix.
What can you tell me about sponge filters? Those seem to keep coming up in my reading.
Back to the critters then back to the office. Stay tuned. . . .
When I check them mid-day they are always very dark grey/black but in the morning and at night they are more tan and translucent. Yes, I was able to see some orange areas on some of the bellies last night but there's no way of seeing that when they are dark like now.
I guess ReefNut answered one of my questions even before I asked it - apparently even that tiny amount of "speckling" on the bottom of the tank can produce ammonia. Hard to believe when I see some people keep huge fish in small tanks with very little cleaning or filtration! I've got a knee-high stocking over the intake of the filter so pulling that off a few times a day and rinsing it off might help a lot. Maybe I should even stir up the stuff on the bottom and then rinse the stocking when it's all captured. It's so hard to siphon or do water changes with these tiny creatures in there. I check my hands so carefully whenever I take them out of that tank, these little guys can be hiding under a ring!
OK, no more anti-ammonia chemicals but it was a desperate measure in the middle of the night to hopefully save them till I could find an alternate fix.
What can you tell me about sponge filters? Those seem to keep coming up in my reading.
Back to the critters then back to the office. Stay tuned. . . .
reefnutpa
Member
The ammonia is a combination of a new tank with no developed biological filtration, poop on the bottom, uneaten/dead food, egg casings from hatched bbs and/or unhatched bbs eggs that are rotting in the tank if any were accidentally put in the tank when siphoning bbs from the hatching vessel for feeding. All of that combined will, believe it or not, deteriorate water quality quickly in a tank with no established biological filtration. Which is why it is imperative to keep the tank spotless.
During the first week, I siphon my fry tank 3 times a day. Yes, I have to wake up a half hour early. Yes, I do it as soon as I get home from my 12-14 hour day...even though all I want to do is sit on my butt and relax. Yes, I do it again right before lights out at night. Then I start all over again the next morning. Trust me, I have siphoned a fair amount of fry out of the tank. I just take them back out of the bucket and put 'em back in the tank. No matter how careful you are, at some point, you'll suck of of the fry up so don't get too upset or let it stop you from keeping the tank immaculately clean.
I have on more than one occassion, as have many who are raising fry, used Amquel and/or Amquel+ in a fry tank to help with ammonia issues with no negative effects. An indication of high ammonia in the tank would be the fry scratching their heads or flipping their tails up to their gills. If that is happening, you need to remedy the situation ASAP.
As I've stated on this site and others, I use large Hydro sponge filters in my fry tanks & juvie tanks. They are awesome filters and provide more than adequate biological filtration. I would get a sponge filter in the tank ASAP so it can start to colonize beneficial bacteria. Until then, you may have to do massive daily water changes, as you're finding out.
As difficult, time consuming, semi-costly, stressful, frustrating as it is trying to raise fry - I would not trade the experience for anything. It took MANY lost broods of fry to find a system that worked for me. Even now, it is not easy - but it IS easier than when I was struggling to find something that worked. Never give up, use any failures as a learning tool to "tweak" your system for the next time. You will find a way to do things that fits well with lifestyle and time you have available.
Best of luck!
Tom
During the first week, I siphon my fry tank 3 times a day. Yes, I have to wake up a half hour early. Yes, I do it as soon as I get home from my 12-14 hour day...even though all I want to do is sit on my butt and relax. Yes, I do it again right before lights out at night. Then I start all over again the next morning. Trust me, I have siphoned a fair amount of fry out of the tank. I just take them back out of the bucket and put 'em back in the tank. No matter how careful you are, at some point, you'll suck of of the fry up so don't get too upset or let it stop you from keeping the tank immaculately clean.
I have on more than one occassion, as have many who are raising fry, used Amquel and/or Amquel+ in a fry tank to help with ammonia issues with no negative effects. An indication of high ammonia in the tank would be the fry scratching their heads or flipping their tails up to their gills. If that is happening, you need to remedy the situation ASAP.
As I've stated on this site and others, I use large Hydro sponge filters in my fry tanks & juvie tanks. They are awesome filters and provide more than adequate biological filtration. I would get a sponge filter in the tank ASAP so it can start to colonize beneficial bacteria. Until then, you may have to do massive daily water changes, as you're finding out.
As difficult, time consuming, semi-costly, stressful, frustrating as it is trying to raise fry - I would not trade the experience for anything. It took MANY lost broods of fry to find a system that worked for me. Even now, it is not easy - but it IS easier than when I was struggling to find something that worked. Never give up, use any failures as a learning tool to "tweak" your system for the next time. You will find a way to do things that fits well with lifestyle and time you have available.
Best of luck!
Tom
sueandherzoo
Active Member
Thanks for the very encouraging posts..... I already agree that as frustrated, stressed and tired I am, I would not have traded this experiene for anything in the world. It never fails - as I sit and quietly watch them with magnifying glass, I always get teary-eyed. Such beautiful, peaceful, innocence. Such wonders of nature. Worth every second and ounce of energy. I actually say goodbye to them each time I walk away and thank them for blessing my life, even if just for a short time. (these seahorses are turning me into a real sentimental mushball - maybe it's the exhaustion!)
I'll head to the LFS right after I leave the office and pick up a sponge filter - I HOPE it's something they stock because I don't have the time to wait for a mail order shipment.
Glad to hear that chemical reduction of ammonia isn't a cardinal sin - I did feel really nervous about doing it but at that point I figured I had nothing to lose - they probably would have suffered from the high ammonia had I not tried that.
Tom and any others with experience: what should I do to set up a nursery for the next batch in regards to biological filtration? I understand the sponge filter will help with that, but should I also buy some porous rock, boil it to kill any hitchhikers, and start cycling it somewhere? I imagine newly hatched horses could greatly benefit from having live rock in their tank as long as we know it doesn't have any predators living in it, right? Or is live rock just an unneeded hassle?
Sue
I'll head to the LFS right after I leave the office and pick up a sponge filter - I HOPE it's something they stock because I don't have the time to wait for a mail order shipment.
Glad to hear that chemical reduction of ammonia isn't a cardinal sin - I did feel really nervous about doing it but at that point I figured I had nothing to lose - they probably would have suffered from the high ammonia had I not tried that.
Tom and any others with experience: what should I do to set up a nursery for the next batch in regards to biological filtration? I understand the sponge filter will help with that, but should I also buy some porous rock, boil it to kill any hitchhikers, and start cycling it somewhere? I imagine newly hatched horses could greatly benefit from having live rock in their tank as long as we know it doesn't have any predators living in it, right? Or is live rock just an unneeded hassle?
Sue
reefnutpa
Member
IMO, while I agree live rock does provide so much to a tank, in a nursery tank/fry tank I feel it's an unneeded hassle. A cycled sponge filter or two or three is really all you need. You want to keep the fry tank as simple and easy to clean as possible, not have to worry about moving rock rubble or pieces around trying to get all the debris out of the tank.
In a juvie tank, where most of the hurdles have already been crossed, live rock does have uses and benefits. But we'll cross that road when you get there.... which I'm confident you will.
If you want, I can e-mail you a pic or two of my 10 gal fry tank tonight/tomorrow if you PM me your e-mail address.
Tom
In a juvie tank, where most of the hurdles have already been crossed, live rock does have uses and benefits. But we'll cross that road when you get there.... which I'm confident you will.
If you want, I can e-mail you a pic or two of my 10 gal fry tank tonight/tomorrow if you PM me your e-mail address.
Tom
sueandherzoo
Active Member
Originally Posted by ReefNutPA
http:///forum/post/2912461
In a juvie tank, where most of the hurdles have already been crossed, live rock does have uses and benefits. But we'll cross that road when you get there.... which I'm confident you will.
Tom
Yup, it must be the fatigue and stress making me so emotional..... even that line choked me up.
http:///forum/post/2912461
In a juvie tank, where most of the hurdles have already been crossed, live rock does have uses and benefits. But we'll cross that road when you get there.... which I'm confident you will.
Tom
Yup, it must be the fatigue and stress making me so emotional..... even that line choked me up.
novahobbies
Well-Known Member
great thread....I'm sure we're all watching this one!
sueandherzoo
Active Member
8:00 p.m. on their 4th day -- tomorrow morning will be five full days.
I came home from work and the LFS tonight to find that I lost two babies and I think it's more a matter of water quality at this point than it is nutrition. Since I don't have 10 gallons of mixed, aerated and "ready" water right now (it's brewing as I type) I wanted to get the fry out of that ammonia-laden tank into a safe environment until I can clean their tank and set up the sponge filter. I was looking around for something to transfer them into when I thought of this -- let me know what you think:
I came home from work and the LFS tonight to find that I lost two babies and I think it's more a matter of water quality at this point than it is nutrition. Since I don't have 10 gallons of mixed, aerated and "ready" water right now (it's brewing as I type) I wanted to get the fry out of that ammonia-laden tank into a safe environment until I can clean their tank and set up the sponge filter. I was looking around for something to transfer them into when I thought of this -- let me know what you think:
sueandherzoo
Active Member
What I'm thinking (and of course I need your thoughts and feedback) is why not let them live in there for a while? They can't get eaten by anything and they are enjoying the good water parameters of the adult tank. The only details I would have to work out is how to feed them properly but that might not be too big of a challenge. If I simply dropped their food in there with them I wouldn't be polluting their small area since it would all pass out to the larger tank where it would either get used by the inhabitants or at least be broken down by the biological filtration. But if I find that too much food is floating out of their container before they can get to it maybe I could move their entire habitat into a feeding "bowl" or some sort of container 3 or 4 times a day and then when they're done hang their little home back in the adult tank?
Thoughts?
Sue
Thoughts?
Sue
sueandherzoo
Active Member
Hmmmmmmm.... that's a thought. And wouldn't it be neat to train the fry to eat out of a feeding dish from such an early age? But with the water movement in the big tank I think it would all flush out of there pretty quickly unless I make it a point of turning everything off during feedings. However, as often as the babies need to be fed I'd rather not have to shut down the 46 gallon four times a day. Food for thought, though - thanks!
thebeadlady
Member
Awesome read - you are such a great mom...
I'm excited for you and xing my fingers...
Karen
I'm excited for you and xing my fingers...
Karen
chaoticdamsel
Member
I had such a wonderful time reading this thread! Your little babies are so cute and I wish you the best of luck with them!
sueandherzoo
Active Member
Thanks so much to all of you for tagging along on this adventure - it's wonderful having the support and encouragement! There's nothing like sharing it with people who really "get it" rather than people who try to act interested when you know they're really rolling their eyes and thinking you are nuts.
I'm really afraid the babies won't be with me tomorrow - they weren't looking too good when I checked them just now . . . it's going to be tough peeking in the tank when I wake up tomorrow morning. But regardless of how this story ends, I really appreciate all of you cheering me on. What a wonderful hobby and what wonderful people involved in it!
Sue
I'm really afraid the babies won't be with me tomorrow - they weren't looking too good when I checked them just now . . . it's going to be tough peeking in the tank when I wake up tomorrow morning. But regardless of how this story ends, I really appreciate all of you cheering me on. What a wonderful hobby and what wonderful people involved in it!
Sue