Help w/ New Aquarium Choice

msb256

Member
After continuing to read up on this stuff, I think I'm ditching the wet/dry. I want a sump so I can put my heater and skimmer in it and only have powerheads in the DT. Does that sound good to everyone? Haha.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSB256 http:///t/391877/help-w-new-aquarium-choice/20#post_3477546
After continuing to read up on this stuff, I think I'm ditching the wet/dry. I want a sump so I can put my heater and skimmer in it and only have powerheads in the DT. Does that sound good to everyone? Haha.
A multi chambered sump tank is really the way most folks like to go. It's just a bit more flexible for the various types of ways people chose to run their filtration. Like you said, it's a better place to place equipment than having it inside or hanging off of the display.
I think 55g tanks are great starter tanks since they're not overly small but not too large to cut your teeth on as a new hobbyist. Especially when you start getting into reef keeping because the costs can start to mount up fairly quick with a large tank. Between the initial cost of equipment and then the continued costs of maintaining in a dedicated fashion. Heck, I've seen some folks around here pawn off their children and even worse, take on a second job to support their addictions to the hobby. :p
The biggest downfall of a 55g IMO is it's narrow width as already mentioned by Shawn (Acrylics51). Most manufactured stands aren't designed for incorporating sumps into 55g tanks. So you're options are limited. But if it were my choice I think I would try to stuff dual 10g tanks under the stand if I could get away with it. One being a sump tank for your skimmer, return pump and heater that would connect to the other tank that would be a refugium area where you can keep nutrient consuming macro algae's, sand, extra live rock and is a safe breeding haven for natural things like copepods and such, which help consume detritus in the system and are free food for some critters. This is a popular way to go for many reef enthusiasts.
Would still like to see pics of the equipment that you already have though. We like pics. :)
 

msb256

Member
Thanks 2Quills!
I'm off to walmart to get a small 10G to use as a sump for now. I'm going to try with one and then maybe add the refugium as I get more advanced. I still don't fully grasp how to control the amount of water that gets siphoned to prevent floods in case of power outage, but I'll figure it out.
So for now, I'm LS, LR, 10G sump with just a heater and return pump... will add skimmer when we can spring for it.
Also buying a 10G setup for a quarantine that I'll use to treat new fish. I don't trust putting them in my DT without copper treatment first to kill off any parasites.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSB256 http:///t/391877/help-w-new-aquarium-choice/20#post_3477568
Thanks 2Quills!
I'm off to walmart to get a small 10G to use as a sump for now. I'm going to try with one and then maybe add the refugium as I get more advanced. I still don't fully grasp how to control the amount of water that gets siphoned to prevent floods in case of power outage, but I'll figure it out.
So for now, I'm LS, LR, 10G sump with just a heater and return pump... will add skimmer when we can spring for it.
Also buying a 10G setup for a quarantine that I'll use to treat new fish. I don't trust putting them in my DT without copper treatment first to kill off any parasites.
The overflow box sets the water level inside the tank. The water level will never really rise higher then the rim of the overflow box inside the tank, well just enough to spill over of corse and into the box. When the pump goes out then there is no water getting pumped into the tank so it simply stops draining within a few seconds when water drops below the rim of the box.
The one thing you have to really watch for is the return plumbing that comes back up and into the tank. If the end of your return is submerged under the water (like most everybody's is) when the pump gets turned off what will happen is a back siphon will occur in the return line. That means water will continue to drain backwards out of the tank, through the return pump and potentially flood the sump/wet dry. Whether or not this all happens is dependent on high or how low your return nozzle is set within the display tank itself. So you'll have to figure out where the safest place to place your return output for which ever sump tank you use. Safest way to run things is to just keep your return output somewhere just below the surface of the water within the tank but not so low that the sump tank floods when power goes out. You'll just have to test this for yourself when you get it going. But with a 10g sump I can assure you that you'll need to keep them very close to the surface. As you advance you'll learn other tricks of the trade for keeping them deeper but for now I'd keep it safe and place it high.
No major reason why you need a skimmer right off the bat. If you stay way from the biggest mistake of over stocking a tank right from the get go then you should be fine for a few months without one. Not every situation necessarily calls for one but I think you'll find it highly recommended and will be a valuable part of the equation.
 

msb256

Member
Thanks man. You're being a big help. So essentially right now my 10G sump is just for the heater ad basically moving water, right? Then it'll serve as the housing the skimmer when I get one. Almost sounds too simple to serve a purpose but I've got to get more water moving as I just have one powerhead right now. So it's sump or HOB.
 

msb256

Member
Also, how long is long enough to treat a new fish with copper in the quarantine before I move them to the DT?
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSB256 http:///t/391877/help-w-new-aquarium-choice/20#post_3477578
Thanks man. You're being a big help. So essentially right now my 10G sump is just for the heater ad basically moving water, right? Then it'll serve as the housing the skimmer when I get one. Almost sounds too simple to serve a purpose but I've got to get more water moving as I just have one powerhead right now. So it's sump or HOB.
For now you could probably just toss some pieces of rock in there to help boost bio filtration capabilities. You could also incorporate some mechanical filtration in the form of filter pads or a filter sock on the drain line for particulate matter. Or just run it as a refugium and find a small HOB skimmer that will fit on the side of it with along with the mechanical methods. There's no shortage of possibilities when it comes to filtration or the combinations that people run. You can make it as complicated as you want though there's always something to be said by keeping it simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSB256
http:///t/391877/help-w-new-aquarium-choice/20#post_3477579
Also, how long is long enough to treat a new fish with copper in the quarantine before I move them to the DT?
This is a good question for the Disease and Treatment forum. There's more than one way to treat with copper so you might want to get some more opinions. And being as that I don't use it myself I'm probably not the best one to answer that. The place where I purchase my saltwater fish from already treats with copper and quarantines there fish before placing them on sale. I've gotten to know them pretty good over the last couple of years so I've watched them and have seen their techniques first hand so I place some faith in their methods. Can't say that I've ever had an issue with diseased or sickly fish from them. I'd suggest getting to know your fish stores a little bit more and talk to the people there as well. Find out which ones take the most pride in what they do and stick with them. Just remember that they are also in the business to sell you something so if you're unsure about something then just come here and get some more opinions. I like to know everything about a specific item before I purchase it now. I know what my store keeps their salinity at, tank temps, food they feed, I've studied their systems, I know where they get their live stock from etc. This wasn't always the case at first and I've made some mistakes but have learned a few things along the way as well. It can be frustrating at times but I love this hobby. The best advise I could give here is research as much as you can before you do things. Other then that, have fun and share your experiences with others.
 

msb256

Member
Thanks again 2Q!
And, well, here's the thing. I had a 29G saltwater tank before and at that time, there were two LFS in town. One I really, really liked. They quarantined there fish for a certain time period and wouldn't let you buy them until that time period was up. They had awesome tanks and set ups. I loved to just go in the there and look around even if I couldn't buy anything. Well, they closed down. Now I'm left with the other option. I bought three chromis from them today, straight from the shipper. They were in the bag in the tank to be acclimated and they sold them right to me, no quarantine. So, I'm going to quarantine them myself since I don't think they do it.
Another concern is they wouldn't sell me their fiji live rock because it wasn't cured yet... huh? Does it not come cured?
Anyways, I'm about to post pictures of my tank and I hope that you can give me some feedback based on the pics. I've got the sump functional and scares me.
 

msb256

Member

The 55G tank. Overflow box on left. Return pump coming in just to the right of that. Power head and heater on far right. Coralife light fixture has four bulbs but only one works right now. It's a white 65watt 10K. I need another one of those, and two of the blue actinics or two 50/50 to fill all four slots. Also has lunar LED. What four lights would you recommend?

Here's the overflow box, pump return, and some live rock I bought today.

Notice the piping attached to the bottom of the box. I found these zip tie looking collars. I suppose I should use one but part of me wants to get the rings you use on the hoses for your car engine to make sure it's tight and will not come off. This is part of what scares me regarding the chance for water to end up all in the floor. The pipe drains directly into the sump under the stand which is pictured below.

Can I protein skimmer in there? Maybe on the right side next to the pump? Should I put anything else in there? In the future I might add another 10G tank beside this one and make it the refugium. Would I just use a U pipe to siphon from the tank on the left to the tank on the right?

Heater and power head.

This is the overflow box/siphon that he was using with the red shut off/tone down valve. He made the pvc part if I'm not mistaken.

Another picture of the old siphon.overflow box device he made and the wet/dry with bio balls. I'm not throwing it away, it was just in the floor during cleanup. Also, not saying whatever he did didn't work, I just find the more tradition box and U pipe to be easier.
So, what do you think so far? We're really enjoying this.
Question... The pump that returns the water from the sump... Right above the flat part that blows the water out, there is a small hole in the pipe and water comes out of it as well. Should that be there? If the water level gets lower it seems like it'll be spraying water out of that small hall before it has a chance to come out of the flat part that's intended to blow the water out of the pump.
 

msb256

Member
Going to Lowe's tonight to by three pieces of glasses for baffles in the sump. I thought I had undissolved salt floating around, but now looking at it, I think it's lots and lots of microbubbles. I can see them coming out of the return pump.
 

txenvy26

New Member
I would go with the 75g as well the bulbs aren't really that expensive at least not at pet co. About 2 months ago I bought a used 30g it came with the sand lights chemicals heater everything to get stared minus the rock and I spent little over 300 I love my tank and it was a great addition to our family..... The 75g is going go give u more opportunity. And if u keep up with sales in the fish stores it shouldn't be that exspencive..... I wish u luck
 

msb256

Member
Thanks txenvy, but the 75G was out of my range. Was going to offer 350 but he said he had two guys in a bidding war who were up to 500. Got the 55G. If you look back through the thread, It's got LR, LS, heater, and powerhead right now. Not much live rock, but a start.
I have a 10G tank I'm using as a sump with a overflow/siphon to get the water down there and a return pump. But, I took that off for now as I'm about to head to Lowe's and buy three pieces of glass and silicon so I can build a baffle. My tank didn't look as clear as it should and I figured out it's the microbubbles being pumped back into the tank. I turned off the pump and the water cleared up a lot. Huge difference.
So, I'll go ahead and build the sump as if I had a skimmer. That way it'll be ready when I get one.
 

msb256

Member
I'm beginning to lose faith in having a sump right now. Went to Lowe's to buy glass for baffles then figured out they don't really have appropriate silicon for aquariums. But I don't want to drop $140 or so on the epphos sump that I like...
 

msb256

Member
Sump is back on. I found safe for aquarium silicon at petsmart. I feel like I'm talking to myself here! Haha
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Sure they do. G.E. Silicone 1 windor & door is safe to use. But anytime you working with silicone around a live tank you should give it a minimum of 4 days to cure but preferably a week. And that advice comes directly from a couple of the best custom tank makers around. People have tried in less time and have completely whiped out everything in there tank only waiting 24-48 hours. Problem with cure times and silicone is that the recommendations on the bottle are based on a 1/8" bead silicone (typical size for window and door). Generally hobbyist will slobber a bunch of silicone on there baffles to make sure they hold securely over time. So the excess silicone takes longer to cure.
The silicone's we find at the big box stores are considered sealants. There are some commercial strength silicone's that are used for actual tank building by pro's that are actually more of an adhesive silicone vs a silicone sealant. But this typically isn't required with sumps that aren't overly large. G.E. 1 (window and door) is probably the most widely used by hobbyists for making sump tanks because it's cheaper and more readily available.
The little opening you are talking about on your return pump is called a Venturi. Your return pump is actually considered a power head. I have a couple of those that I use for my saltwater mixing containers. If you attach an airline tube to it it will blow bubbles. If the water level in the sump gets to low it the suction side of the pump will start to create a vortex and suck in air and this will shoot micro bubbles all over the place. If you have one of the original attachments that comes with the pump you can take it off and use a different head that doesn't have the venturi on it. I like to use them in my mixing containers for circulating/mixing the water with an air tube attached to help aerate the water while it mixes.
Edit: guess you posted before I could haha.
 

msb256

Member
2Quills, thanks man! You've been the most responsive here. Sorry if I seem impatient, I'm just all jacked up on this aquarium stuff and blowing money! Haha.

So, I bought 30 pounds of aragonite sand to go with the 40 pounds of LS I already had in there. Hopefully the LS will be sufficient and spread to the regular aragonite sand.
I've got three pieces of glass and took the sump out for now so I can build my baffles.
So 2Q... you're saying my return pump is more of a powerhead? Is it ok that I'm using it as the return pump? It seems to work. Last night I feel like the rate of the siphon and return pump matched up well. So I have a fan looking powerhead in there for circulation. Do people sometimes use what I'm using as a return pump just to sit in the tank and circulate water? Maybe that's why it seems so big when it's sitting in that 10G sump.
I'm off watch OKC and the Spurs and build my baffles while the new sand settles.
 

msb256

Member
2Q... Would you mind just looking through the pictures and telling me if I can get by with the equipment I have now? Keep in mind I'm redoing the sump now to add three baffles. I think my circulation propeller pump thinga ma jiggy is a Koralia but not sure which one.
Is my return pump going to cause microbubbles regardless of what I do to my sump? What's the purpose of the venturi?
Sorry if the sheer number of questions is annoying...
 

msb256

Member
The return pump i have is the Pentair Aquatics Lifegard Quietone 2200. It's 594 GPH.
Online research makes me think it was originally the Pentair Aquatics - Lifegard Quietone 2200 and may have targeted ponds. Other websites have it targeting aquariums and dropped the Pentair Aquatics name. Same 2200 model and 594 GPH.
 

acrylic51

Active Member
I'm coming in on the tail end of things.....but have you tried moving the return pump away from your drain line coming from your overflow box......From the picture they appear to be right on top of each other......
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSB256 http:///t/391877/help-w-new-aquarium-choice/20#post_3477758
2Quills, thanks man!
So, I bought 30 pounds of aragonite sand to go with the 40 pounds of LS I already had in there. Hopefully the LS will be sufficient and spread to the regular aragonite sand.
I've got three pieces of glass and took the sump out for now so I can build my baffles.
So 2Q... you're saying my return pump is more of a powerhead? Is it ok that I'm using it as the return pump? It seems to work. Last night I feel like the rate of the siphon and return pump matched up well. So I have a fan looking powerhead in there for circulation. Do people sometimes use what I'm using as a return pump just to sit in the tank and circulate water? Maybe that's why it seems so big when it's sitting in that 10G sump.
I'm off watch OKC and the Spurs and build my baffles while the new sand settles.
No prob. It's human nature to have questions when doing new things and we all start somewhere.
Eh!...return pump / power head....a water pump is a water pump as far as I'm concerned. Though that one there was probably designed to be used as either but most use them as power heads and or mixing pumps.
I have two of those along with a couple of Koralia power heads similar to the one you have in my tank for flow. Then there are the two returns from the dual canister filters that I have on there. 1 rated for up to 75g tank and 1 up to 125g tank. I cycle my cleanings on the canisters meaning I only clean one at a time. I'm not running a skimmer right now so my tank is mostly soft corals and a few fish. There is no shortage of flow there for a 50g tank.
I'd say deffinitely look into getting another power head for the other side of the tank for the near future. If you chamber off your one side of your sump you can place your skimmer and run your drain line to it. You're return pump should be in it's own chamber. That's where the water level is going to rise and fall due to all of the evaporation that occurs. You will have to sustain it regularly from getting to low. Keeping the skimmer and drain line in their own chamber will help contain or delay the amount of bubbles that are able to reach and get sucked into the return pump. This could very well be the issue as well with what you're seeing.
The venturi serves no purpose for you if your using the powerhead/pump as your return so it isn't needed. All it's doing is causing you to lose some flow from cycling back into the display.
 
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