help!

[cfritz8770]

I have a 29 gal long tank that has been up & running for 4 months. I cycled the tank w/blue devils. added a false percula and got rid of the most aggressive devil - about 2 weeks later added a chocolate chip star & 2 turbo snails. 1 snail didn't make it.
The tank was this way for 2 months until last week I noticed the other blue devil looking funny - like losing color on the top of his head. then he just died!? Local LFS said water was fine & he was "pioneer" and they don't really last - on impulse got a yellow tang (lfs said should do great) - that fish died in 24 hrs. LFS tested water again, said it was fine & to try a royal gramma (supposed to be hardier) - well this morning I discovered this fish dead (it lasted 4 days)...What in the world is going on?
btw - clown doing fine (looks a little depressed)

 

[moopiespoo]

First off, Welcome to the boards, you came to the right place for help.
I don't know if you can trust your lfs so please post your parameters.
Also please post more about your tank, filtration ro/di or tap everything you can think of and we will go from there.

 

[col]

If you haven't already got them, buy the following test kits:
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
ph
SG (hydrometer)
How did you introduce the new fish to the tank?

 

[cfritz8770]

thanks for the help - I REALLY researched before I set out on this quest of a sw tank ---
I have the test kit w/amm, nitrite, nitrate & ph also a salinity, calcium & idodide test kit --
ph 8.2, amm 0 , nitrite 0, nitrate 0 and sal 1.021 (this morning)
filter is millenium 3000
I turned lights (normal hood) and put bag from lfs in tank, added about 1/2 cup of water every 5 min into bag until water approx doubled then dumped water & fish from bag into pitcher used only for tank with net across top to catch fish & put in tank (thought that might be less stress than trying to chase fish w net)
*ever try to do everything right to only have everything wrong?*

 

[beaslbob]

I agree you need to check parameters. By now the parameters may have returned to normal so it will be hard to tell exactly what happened when those fish were added to the system.
During the first three-four months of establishing my current 55g I had similiar losses. My nitrItes would spike and then go down when I did not feed the fish. I finally discovered my ph had dropped to 7.4 or so. With a fish dieing in 24 hours, I highly suspect you have a ph problem. After a few months more running the ph rose to 8.4 and things settled down. I now have a yellow tang which has been in the tank for about 6 months.
One thing that really helped my system was the addition of plant life. If you have not added macros or marine plants you may want to look into those.
edit: well not a ph problem now. Did you measure ph as the fish were being added?
I know it is fustrating but in a couple of months this should seem like a distant memory.

 

[cfritz8770]

no I didn't -
I forgot to say that I had been using tap water (I know the whole issue with this) but when I lost the tang, I got bottled water from the grocery store. I use Prime & instant ocean to season the water. Also use ph-up(?).
I have a fish only tank - no corals etc. what type of plant should I get?
thanks so much (I grew up with freshwater tanks - they weren't this much work!)

 

[bigmac]

First thing you need to do is get a new LFS or start doing your own homework. When you walk into your current LFS you have $$ signs hanging over your head. They would rather see your fish die then live. That way you'll buy more. Your tank is WAY too small for a tang. I like the comment about the damsel "pioneer" ...That fish is stronger then any fish mentioned.
col has given good advice. This hobby isn't cheap. You need to stop buying fish and spend the cash for the right equipment. Are you using RO water of tap water? What's the tank temp? Before you buy any fish from your LFS make sure THEY have managed to keep it alive for longer then 4 weeks.
Most important, don't listen to your LFS, slow down, do your homework.

 

[cfritz8770]

Thanks - I'm kinda limited - there are 2 stores in my area that deal in sw --
I do research and have read a lot - but there is a lot of conflicting info out there - any recommendations on a good book or website?
I don't do ro water (not sure how) - I feel bad for the fish I've lost, I really want to do this the right way - I'm limited in space and husband didn't like the larger tanks - I knew the 29g would limit me on type of fish I could get.

 

[cfritz8770]

This has been frustrating to say the least - I thought I knew what I was getting into - but it seems that I know very little about what to do...
At this point what is my best option - how do I get this tank to accept a couple of new fish (I mean 29g and only one fish) and remain stable for awhile?

 

[beaslbob]

cfritz
You may not realize that using bottled water and ph up may have contributed to the loss of the fish after the tang. I hope you checked ph before adding any additives. If the bottled water was distilled or ro/di water, than ph may have been much lower than if you had used tap water.
If you do not have plant life other than algae then add all you can get you hands on. Once you get the macros or marine plants established you have a very strong indication that you have an established system. Allow 2-3 weeks to insure the system has stabilized and has an established, natural and balanced ecosystem.
then try adding some more fish and add them slowly.

 

[cfritz8770]

thanks!
I don't have any plants (just the normal algea growth), so I'll get them - ph tested at 8.0 before I added the ph-up - It was ro bottled water (my lfs actually recommended the store I bought it from)
I realize that in my panic I probably tried to do too much too fast, so I'm hoping that with the weekend I can monitor my ph every so often to see if it is fluctuating and go from there.
thanks for the help!

 

[cfritz8770]

Hi - I checked the ph when I got home tonight and yep it was 8.0
I bet it is wavering during the day and the clown is just used to it.
I have a friend who is into the hobby and she suggested adding shells - she hadn't heard that plants could help ph. (She lives pretty far away - so she hasn't seen my tank except through pictures.
This is the latest.

 

[shanev]

Why is the water level so low? Has it always been that low. or has some evaporated ? The reason I ask is freshwater evaporates and makes the salinty level of the water rise if no "top off" water is added. WHile this shouldnt kill fish in 24 hours, the ever changing salt levels can cause alot of stress.

 

[cfritz8770]

I never filled the tank to the very rim - I do top off when it drops lower --
should I fill the tank more?
thanks!

 

[sheracr123]

So long as the salinity stays level, I am not sure if the lower water level affects the tank. It may make your evaporation faster. I know my skimmer does not work as well if the water level is low either.
As for the Marco's, I would do a search on here regarding them. There have been many heated discussions regarding Marco's. Some people say they can overtake your tank if your not careful. I personally have none and have never had a need for them. Slow down a little and do alot of research!!!
I am not positive but I don't think 8.0 ph can kill your fish. I would be alot more concerned about the tap water. I know you used ditilled water for the last waterchange, but their still could possibly be bad things in the water from the original fill. Tap water can have lots of things in there like copper, nitrates...
You should be able to purchase reverse osmosis/ de ionized (RO/DI) water somewhere there. Do you have a walmart close. They usually have a filling station and it's a little cheaper than buying 1 gal jugs.
I think the most recommended book is "the concientious marine aquarist" by robert m. fenner. A little costly but well worth it.
Saltwater fish can be expensive and trying. But when you get your tank established, it's not as hard as some people make it out to be.
Oh yeah, are there man made decorations in your tank? Most people say that you should only put natural saltwater items in your tank. Some tank decos just are not made for saltwater and can corrode.
HTH
Mendee

 

[cfritz8770]

so you're saying I shouldn't have any plastic "ornaments" or fake plants in the tank - (I'm doing a fish only tank, can't afford the special lights for a reef) - what do I use then?
obviously I was given very bad advise when I started out back in July. (and to answer the obvious questions - no I didn't make a sudden decision to have a sw tank after seeing Nemo - I had always had a fw tank and had to give it up when we moved & we got some extra money over the summer & since I had always wanted a sw tank decided to "take the plunge". I feel like I'm in over my head)

 

[beaslbob]

The plastic decoration comments are primarily for looks. Most do not want a salt tank the looks like a fw tank. You need to decide what you think looks nice and is within your budget.
You can get marine plants for next to nothing and they will have a similiar effect to the plastic ones you currently have now except they will very effectively filter your tank. Because plants (macro algaes or true marine plants) are food for various livestock, some form of protection is usually used to protect the plants. I have a seperate tank to culture the plants and also run a refugium for that purpose. As far as cost goes, many are throwing pounds of plants away each month, and woud probably be glad to give them to you.

 

[cfritz8770]

thanks!
I do want a natural look even if it is fish only. Do the plants need special lighting?

 

[cfritz8770]

thanks - I think this is just like any other hobby, trial and error - I just don't want to error and have dead fish.

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by cfritz8770
thanks!
I do want a natural look even if it is fish only. Do the plants need special lighting?
the short answer is no. I use NO and 10-12 duration seems fine. Sometimes I do get some hair or other algaes but cutting back on the duration allows the "ugly" algaes to die off and the plants to catch up. Macros do grow fast as mentioned but as nutrients are lowered the growth rate slows. Two probems with marco in a display are they will be consumed faster then they grow or you may have to remove or rearrange some every month or so.