Hlle......cured

[tannersmith200]

Florida Joe is correct. I am an industrial electrician (PLC Programmer) and I know/understand electricity. Everyone should use GFCI's for all of their aquarium plugins (anywhere in a wet/damp location). GFCI's detect as little as 5 mA or .005 A of fault current. 5 mA is pretty much harmless but is enough to trip the circuit. The use of a grounding probe therefore is overrated. If there was stray voltage in the tank, a path to ground would indeed be harmful or deadly to your critters. A GFCI recognizes a change in current (5 mA). Current and voltage are correlated in the fact that if one is increased, the other increases. It depends on the resistance.
So all in all, use GFCI's for your own protection. Oh and buy a $3 GFCI tester. It tests the GFCI to make sure it trips when a fault current is present.
Pretty simple fix.

 

[spanko]

Originally Posted by tannersmith200 https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/forum/thread/366165/hlle-cured/20#post_3361664
Florida Joe is correct. I am an industrial electrician (PLC Programmer) and I know/understand electricity. Everyone should use GFCI's for all of their aquarium plugins (anywhere in a wet/damp location). GFCI's detect as little as 5 mA or .005 A of fault current. 5 mA is pretty much harmless but is enough to trip the circuit. The use of a grounding probe therefore is overrated. If there was stray voltage in the tank, a path to ground would indeed be harmful or deadly to your critters. A GFCI recognizes a change in current (5 mA). Current and voltage are correlated in the fact that if one is increased, the other increases. It depends on the resistance.
So all in all, use GFCI's for your own protection. Oh and buy a $3 GFCI tester. It tests the GFCI to make sure it trips when a fault current is present.
Pretty simple fix.
Originally Posted by 2Quills https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/forum/thread/366165/hlle-cured#post_3361483
You sure about that, Henry?
Yup.

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tannersmith200 http:///forum/thread/366165/hlle-cured/20#post_3361664
Florida Joe is correct. I am an industrial electrician (PLC Programmer) and I know/understand electricity. Everyone should use GFCI's for all of their aquarium plugins (anywhere in a wet/damp location). GFCI's detect as little as 5 mA or .005 A of fault current. 5 mA is pretty much harmless but is enough to trip the circuit. The use of a grounding probe therefore is overrated. If there was stray voltage in the tank, a path to ground would indeed be harmful or deadly to your critters. A GFCI recognizes a change in current (5 mA). Current and voltage are correlated in the fact that if one is increased, the other increases. It depends on the resistance.
So all in all, use GFCI's for your own protection. Oh and buy a $3 GFCI tester. It tests the GFCI to make sure it trips when a fault current is present.
Pretty simple fix.
tanner: I was wondering if you could elaborate just a little bit more on the coralation of increasing and decreasing voltage when it comes to a circuit fault. As you said "It depends on the resistance". There seems to be a pretty big gray area when it comes to the use of grounding probes with gfci's when it comes to our aquariums. I only ask because we know for a fact that water is an excellent conductor of electricity. From some of the things I've read around on the net is that in not every situation (depending on the fault) will a gfci necissarily trip even if it's working correctly. In kitchen and bath or outdoor situations I understand but it doesn't always seem so cut and dry when it comes to this hobby and alot of "experts" with electrical backrounds tend to defere on some of these issues. I've read alot of things but have yet to come across anyone that has done any real world testing in regaurds to various situations that can occure in our aquariums.
I'd just like to get a better understanding because I don't necissarily feel comfortable telling someone that a ground probe is an over rated device to someone with a possible heart condition or who may have small children running around the home. An electrical current in very small amounts for even a fraction of a second can potentially be enough to cause someones heart to stop. Therefore for some folks out there it may not necessarily seem so un important to have.
The more I think about this the more I don't see what it would hurt to use a ground probe while running all of the equipment on gfci's that is going to be submerged. Since in Meowzers case (sorry Meow for using you as an example) had been using a ground probe that was hard wired into the wall behind her standard dublex outlets that she was running all of her equipment on. So with that understanding I feel it's safe to assume that even in an unrecommended situation her sailfin tang was still able to overcome the HLLE so the miniscule amounts of current put off by the powercords in the tank and lights was not enough to cause any harm to the fish.
Appologies as I don't mean to be argumentative or anything. There just seems to be alot of mass confusion accross the net about these issues and for me I just don't find it so cut and dry as other folks do.
One thing I know for sure that I wouldn't do though is run a ground probe without using gfci's for the equipment. That fact that I wouldn't use a ground probe with gfci's is a decision that I make personally since I understand the consiquence that I could still recieve a shock even for a fraction of a second but that's a choice that I have made for myself and am willing to live with. I'm just saying there might be some folks out there who might not feel the same way when it comes to their families or their own personal safety.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///forum/thread/366165/hlle-cured/20#post_3361665
Yup.
Cool, was just wonderin.
Meow: Appologies for jacking your thread. Just trying to help myself and some of the rest of us get a better understanding on the issue of what's safe and what is not. I'll continue this elsewhere if you wish. Actually if I have some time this weekend I think I may do some experimenting of my own to see what may or may not happen in a given situation.

 

[florida joe]

Quote:
So with that understanding I feel it's safe to assume that even in an unrecommended situation her sailfin tang was still able to overcome the HLLE so the miniscule amounts of current put off by the powercords in the tank and lights was not enough to cause any harm to the fish.
Corey my feelings and I must state I will never press my opinion on anyone in the hobby when it comes to electrical hazards.
IMO every piece of electrical equipment we introduce into our aquarium systems will leach stray voltage. Again IMO this stray voltage in very small amounts when given a path afforded by the grounding probe may not kill our fish or corals BUT it must surely be a constant harassment to them. As far as Meowzers situation, the problem with her fish may or may not have had to do with stray voltage. The theory that stray voltage causes head and lateral line erosion is still greatly debated

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/366165/hlle-cured/20#post_3361827
Corey my feelings and I must state I will never press my opinion on anyone in the hobby when it comes to electrical hazards.
IMO every piece of electrical equipment we introduce into our aquarium systems will leach stray voltage. Again IMO this stray voltage in very small amounts when given a path afforded by the grounding probe may not kill our fish or corals BUT it must surely be a constant harassment to them. As far as Meowzers situation, the problem with her fish may or may not have had to do with stray voltage. The theory that stray voltage causes head and lateral line erosion is still greatly debated
I'm in agreement, Joe. Both with the grounding probe as well as HLLE being related to stray voltage. There's just not enough definitive proof IMO to say one way or another whether it is or isn't related. In Lois' case I personaly feel that if anything then I would tend to point the finger more towards the carbon than stray voltage or current. But it's a gray area since she was running a probe and yet her tang looks absolutely beautiful today. So who's to really say how much stray is too much and how much would be considered acceptable? Surely it would very greatly from one persons tank to another.
As far as I'm concerned, if there is even a remote possibility that a grounding probe would cause any harm or irritation to my fish then I would not use one (which is why I don't and do not plan to either). So in that sense then I agree with grounding probes being over rated as far as doing anything positive for livestock.
My biggest concern for myself and for others on this board was to help clarify what grounding probes should or should not be used for. It's just my personal belief that just because you use gfci on all of your equipment doesn't necissarily garantee that you are 100% protected against electrical shock. And this is where I think that they could be a good thing for anybody with a heart condition or youngsters running around the house or anyone else who may wander past the tank and not know any better to not stick their hands in there. Because from what I understand is that there can be situations to where a faulty piece of equipment is leaking voltage and the gfci might not necissarily trip. Therefor there is still a potential for harm even if it's a small one. Some folks may wish to choose safety first for their family first over their fish.
For, myself...I run all of my equipment that comes into contact with water on a seperate power strip that is plugged into a gfci. And before I do anything with the tank be it maintenance or feeding then I shut everything down with just a single flip of a switch. And I understand that there is a small potential for danger incase the gfci decides that it wants to malfunction without my knowledge or if I happen to forget to flip the switch. But that's a risk that I personally have accepted and am willing to take. I've taken enough shocks from 120v over the years that I've lost count so it really doesn't frighten me anymore, I work with it everyday. But I also and know that in certain situations if you're not aware of what you're surroundings and what you're doing that it can possibly kill you as well.

 

[florida joe]

Quote:
For, myself...I run all of my equipment that comes into contact with water on a seperate power strip that is plugged into a gfci. And before I do anything with the tank be it maintenance or feeding then I shut everything down with just a single flip of a switch. And I understand that there is a small potential for danger incase the gfci decides that it wants to malfunction without my knowledge or if I happen to forget to flip the switch. But that's a risk that I personally have accepted and am willing to take. I've taken enough shocks from 120v over the years that I've lost count so it really doesn't frighten me anymore, I work with it everyday. But I also and know that in certain situations if you're not aware of what you're surroundings and what you're doing that it can possibly kill you as well.
While some may see this as overkill my friend I see this as one consciences hobbyist