Horrified by LFS

daisywb

Member
I need to vent....long-winded post coming up.
Every night from work, my boyfriend and I pass a store that specializes in saltwater fish. We'd never been there before, so tonight we decided to check it out. The first thing I saw was a nano reef display tank on the counter. Unfortunately, I couldn't tell what was inside because the algae was so thick and it covered the whole front of the tank. From looking in through the sides I saw a poor clownfish just sitting there close to the top of the water. The only water flow was coming back from a filter that was releasing water back in the tank (and I couldn't even tell if that was working).
Next, we went to look at their fish. A beautiful coral beauty and potters angelfish caught my eye across the room. I went up to the tank and as they ducked and tried to hide because they were frightened, I saw that they were completely saturated (especially the CB) with ich. Now, I've never seen ich before, but I have no doubts at all that this is what it was. My heart sank when I saw those two. They were huddled in the back of their small holding tanks until I walked away. This store keeps a whole wall of small holding tanks (maybe 30 or so), that are all connected w/ the same water source...the water flows from box to box. All of the LFS's that I've been to have setups like this. What concerned me was that if these fish were so sick that every tank on that wall had ich circulating through it. Next to these fish were 3 clownfish. They didn't appear to be sick so I assumed they were new arrivals :/ Further down the lines the fish appeared to be frozen in their tanks, all of them covered with ich. One tank had about 5 feather dusters that were just thrown in. No substrate, no rocks to anchor them. At this point, I'm really starting to get upset.
The store has a middle isle with large tanks on each side. I walk down there and see the same deplorable conditions with these tanks as well. There was a yellow eyed tang that was crouched in one corner. When the fish turned around I saw that one of his eyes was cloudy and kinda puffed out. Another tank had a Naso tang in with a very tiny, 1" fish (not sure what kind it was). This poor little fish was beaten to a pulp by the tang. Its fins were torn and it looked like its scales were rotting off around the middle section of its body. Although these tanks were bigger than the holding tanks along the wall, I don't think that a tank approx. 30-40 gallons will comfortably hold a tang w/ a small, passive fish as a tankmate. Most of the other fish had ich, some of them looked like they were on their death beds. The tanks themselves hadn't been cleaned in a REALLY long time (both inside and outside). The water circulating through these tanks was cloudy and extremely dirty.
I was fuming by the time I left the store. I've seen a few dingy LFS's, but this one was unacceptable. More than 50% of the fish I saw had ich (or at least from what my inexperienced eyes could tell) and lived in rancid conditions.
What can we, as responsible pet owners, do about situations like this? Normally, I would just take my business elsewhere, but in this case, it's different. To me, this is obvious neglect, cruelty....it's flat out animal abuse. I'm very curious to know if anyone else in the southern Los Angeles area has ever been to this store. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post the name here, but I will gladly give it in an e-mail in case anyone would like to visit this place.
I cannot articulate how despicable that place is. How can these guys expect to run a business if their stock is in this condition?! I'm very new to this hobby, but even I could see major problems. If anyone else thinks they have been to this store, please let me know. Maybe we can do something to help. I don't ever want to see another fish enter that death trap again.
Thanks for listening,
-Daisy
 

stupid_naso

Member
Wow, that's one messed up LFS. Well the one thing that you can do is stay away from them. Other thing, I'm affraid there is not much you can do :( . Unless you're planning to buy all the sick fishes save them and keep them. I don't think you want to invest money on sick fishes, do you? Well there might be someone out there who has lots and lots of money and have one big hospital tank, he or she might be able to save those fishes.
I live in Tustin, about an hour south of LA. I don't think I've ever been there, but gosh that sounds horrible. I'm sorry that you have to witness that during your early stage of being in this hobby, but I guess there's one thing you can learn from this, that we all should take care of our fishes to the best of our ability :) .
stupid_naso
 

volitan

Member
Burn the place to the ground! <img src="graemlins//mischievous.gif" border="0" alt="[Mischievous]" />
 

volitan

Member
Just kidding, don't do that. It sounds like this place will not be in business for long. There is a place similar to the one you described here in OKC. They sell all kinds of pets from reptiles to birds, and from dogs to fish. The problem I have with the place is they use the beauty and mystery of marine life to attract business into the store. They always have something exotic and new in the display tanks. The problem is, the rest of their tanks are dirty and diseased. It makes me mad too.
 

superman

Member
I talked about my experience in another posting. Long story short the guy sold SWF and used computers. The fish all looked depressed. Every coral was in one big tank just tossed in there. The tanks were dirty. And of all the anenomes I saw, I'm pretty sure only one of them was alive. It really is sad. <img src="graemlins//dead.gif" border="0" alt="[dead]" />
 
I'm a novice but it seems to me that if a person who owned a LFS wanted to thrive and build a reputation with customers would want to maintain the best environment for his/her stock as possible. I have only been in this hobby for a few months now and I have not seen the sort of horrific images that I have read here. I am thankful of that but I must say that it depresses me to think that there are places out there that neglect some of the most exquisite animals in the world.
 

daisywb

Member
JW, I will most definitely do that! :) It should be interesting to see if I get any kind of response. Will keep you posted on what happens!
-Daisy
 
say daisy, i live in southern l.a. area and am interested in going to this crappy store to actuall see the animal cruelyt just so I can give the owner a piece of my mind as well <img src="graemlins//uhuh.gif" border="0" alt="[U-Huh]" /> . So if u can give me an e-mail or just post. my email is Hocky4nick@aol.com... thanks alot :)
 

nyy fan

Member
I agree that a letter to the owner is a good place to start. You may be surprised to find out that the owner has no idea that things have turned so horrible (if not taken care of, I would imagine it could happen quickly). If the owner doesn't know, he will probably appreciate the feedback considering his money is dying in those tanks.
I am lucky to have a couple decent LFS's near me, and one that I really like. The guys are from Tampa (like me), and do everything they can to not stress out the fishes.
Phucker
 

bondgirl

New Member
I'm a newbie in marine aquatics, but I can't tell you HOW MUCH i've learned off of this messageboard, it's amazing. More than any book could teach me, that's for sure.
ANYWAY, when I went to my LFS tonite and I mentioned to the "marine specialist" about wanting to cycle my NEXT tank with shrimp, he looked at me like I was crazy. Said he's never heard of that before and that he recommends using live fish.
He knows we're new to this, so he's probably trying to get us to spend more money, but still. :mad:
Needless to say, I won't be using their services or products again.
Thanks guys ;) if it wasn't for this board, I'd probably waste alot of money, kill my fish out of ignorance, get frustrated and just quit eventually.
 

ebeckels

Active Member
bondgirl,
people have been cycling with live fish for many years now. There is no right or wrong way. Although many people feel that it is inhumane to cycle with live fish, there is nothing wrong with it, if ur ok with it. It will cycle ur tank just fine. I think shrimp is a much more humane method and I wouldn't want to do it another way, but the LFS employee saying that live fish is the only way to go is not so ridiculous. He probably knows what he's talking about but maybe doesn't know about other ways of cycling. I wouldn't blow off this store entirely unless there is something else wrong with the store.
hth
 

superman

Member
It'd sad. 10 posts or howevermany have hit this board so far is way to many. Animals should be taken care of. I wish those LFS people could be ripped out of their environment and given a terminal illness with no food or liveliness! <img src="graemlins//urrr.gif" border="0" alt="[urrr]" /> <img src="graemlins//evilwhorn.gif" border="0" alt="[Evil Horn]" /> <img src="graemlins//mischievous.gif" border="0" alt="[Mischievous]" />
 

bondgirl

New Member
well, he also told me I could put in as many clown fish as I wanted in the 35 gallon tank. because they're "small". I don't think that was the right answer either. I just don't trust them now...
I understand what you're saying though :)
After reading the options and choices I had, I want ANY fish that I buy to survive. I'll wait for the cycling method to run through. I bought 4 fish right away (2 weeks ago with his suggestion) and had I known about the other way, I'd have waited.
He tried to tell my husband he could buy more tonite, and I put my foot down. He's out to make a sale, that's it.
 

k.lee

Member
My guess regardig your lfs, is that the retailer did not understand you wanted dead shrimp to do it.
 

kris walker

Active Member
Hi Daisy,
Don't know if you are still reading replies or not, but I figure I'll put my 0.02 in anyway since I'm a bored insomniac (sp?).
I agree with lots that has been said. In the short term, the best solution is to write a letter. Or better yet for you, does the owner have an e-mail address? If so, in your e-mail, you could mention this thread on this message board just to let him know that his future actions are under scrutiny, and therefore potential to lose customers is big. In the long term, if he doesn't care about the letter or e-mail, he WILL go out of business. Nobody likes to see what you saw, even people who don't know much about the hobby. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see when a fish is unhealthy or when a LFS really stinks.
Finally, I don't see why you are protecting this store's identity from mass viewing. In most cases, I would take your lead and not post the name, but this case seems exceptional. If I were you, I would post the name and address of the store so we all know exactly what store you are referring to (and to give bad publicity where it is due). There is nothing tackless, IMO, about reporting observations (horrible or otherwise) and naming the store from which those observations came. But that is just my opinion.
Cheers,
sam
 

fshhub

Active Member
surfin sam, if someone form her area wants to know, she could tell them, but i would not publically anounce the name, although it is a good idea, for us, i can think of one major online vendor who IS suing a board, and the members who posted there, for such actions, in hers or anyones shoes, i would not reccommend it, but as i said,if one of her neighbors would like to know, they could aske her, so if you are form her area, see if she will give her your email, or vice vers and contact each other off the bb, it would be best for all, i do agree with you, bu ti would not want to see any trouble come of this, for anyone here, or the bb
edited: i will keep an eye on this post, so if you do intend to post names, i will delete my post, so as not to give them any ideas, if you wish to show them this thread, just post and allow me a day or 2 to remove it before telling them, ok
 

kris walker

Active Member
Yea fshhub, I guess you are right. Daisy, I really don't know enough about the legal definition of "slander" to know what in your post might be considered as such. So in light of this, I change my recommendation. I know for a fact though that reporting *observations only* and a name to a mass audience can in no way get you into trouble (but I don't know about calling them despicable). :)
C ya,
sam
 

fshhub

Active Member
not 100% sure of the definitioneither, i only know some about business law, but i do remember that there are key words there, malicious intent, in which case, the intent to steer business away would be malicious(in my eyes); but the thing is that slander, defamation of character or what ever, this is not a leagl hair splitting i intend 4 , but just an observation that there is currently a court case going on that i would not like to see happen here to any of the members
but if you live in or near her area by all means, friends can talk to one another(in mail or IM's or person or whatever), i know i would, and i would gratly apprecitae the help someone here in my area could give me about such a thing, and you can use a yahoo or hotmail, and make it up just for that one time instance, so it could not be very usable(if you do not want others to have your address) or anythign
 

jester

Member
How about this. Let's say hypotheticaly I asked for the name and address of a lfs in your area you have visited in case I find myself in Cali. Once you post the name/address I can call as if a customer and maybee help.
Instead of trying to put them out of buisness, let's try to enlightin them. Could it be they don't know what to do? We have all benifited from this board, and the knowlegde it contains. I would like to pass it on to them in a non agressive matter. Most people would not do this on purpose. If they do let's eat up like a hungy Volitan. :)
 
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