How do you explain this?- Illegals

nyyankeees

nyyankeees

Member

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2494410
They are all criminals. They are here illegally... Therefore the criminal rate is 100%.
They can apply to come here legally. Give the jobs to those that obey the law.
Without cheap labor employers would be forced to pay more reasonable wages.
I'm totally against rewarding criminals.
When the Irish and Italians came to the US they learned English, adopted the American culture, and made a life for themselves here; as opposed to sneaking into the country illegally and supplying Mexico with more US dollars than tourism.
I totally agree

I challenge anyone one to watch these then say it's not a problem and the majority of illegals aren't criminals!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mv8lfwkC9ss&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mi-QJWuHIIE&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9K-UbN3Ms&feature=related
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Well I think I am pretty harsh on illegal aliens but I don't think the majority of them are here to committ criminal acts. Thats not to say I don't think they should be deported, just that I think most of them have honerable motives for being here. Well meaning motive or not it isn't our responsibility to feed, house and educate their families.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2496304
Well I think I am pretty harsh on illegal aliens but I don't think the majority of them are here to committ criminal acts. Thats not to say I don't think they should be deported, just that I think most of them have honerable motives for being here. Well meaning motive or not it isn't our responsibility to feed, house and educate their families.
I agree 100%. The average illegal immigrant wants a better life for themself and their family. Heck, in many ways I admire that. Too many Americans have forgotten what it means to make sacrifices to better the lives of your family.
They just need to come here and be processed legally.... That's all I'm asking.
I wish Congress would pass mandantory sentencing of like 5 years in prison for hiring illegal workers. That alone would eliminate a huge portion of the issue.
 
rylan1

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by Pontius
http:///forum/post/2494221
if someone wants a better life for themself, I certainly don't see the problem with expecting them to pay their own way for it. if you come here (or any other country) and expect the already over burdened taxpayers to pay for your healthcare, childcare, childrens' education, and more law enforcement for the boost in population, then you are a detriment, not a benefit. these 12 million or however many who are here illegally are helping the wealthy business owners and politicians, but they are killing the middle class. it's really slavery for the 21st century. I think whatever utopia world you can conjure up is only going to work if everyone pulls their share, and that's not what's happening.
now, there are a lot of factors affecting the economy. illegal immigration and war are certainly 2 of those factors. and though I'm a republican, I sure don't see how one can point a finger at John Edwards without first pointing one at John McCain, because he's the biggest proponent of illegal immigration that there is anywhere.
either way, I see this thread being locked soon.
and just for the road, I see no parallel with comparing something that happened 500 years ago before this country was even charted territory to what is happening now, in our lifetime.
I agree with you here... you can point the finger at McCain.. but also we need to point the finger at our gov't in general over a large time span. This is an issue that needs to be resolved. I believe a few issues have to be addressed. I think its logical that more illegal aliens commit crimes, to what type of crimes I am not sure, but these people are coming here and being recruited into gangs, they have drug connections, and with little income they are more likely to be involved in criminal behavior, not to mention they are already using fraudulent behavior to get access to soc sec, or licenses, etc..
I wouldn't call it slavery, but it is cheap labor... If you compare in Mexico.. an average day salary is about $4.50 a day compared to $5-7 an hour.
We need to do something about improving the standard of living in Mexico... We need better border security... and if it takes a wall than fine... this will also help in reducing the drug trade. I don't think it makes since to deport illegal aliens.. I believe a path to citizenship is best.. This could create more jobs.. I also think a fine is fair.
One question.. what are you getting 500 years from?
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2496419
... you can point the finger at McCain..
Yes, and you can point two at Obama. His immigration reform plan is virtually IDENTICAL to the one McCain was forced to abandon. Except, of course, Obama is for giving illegals driver's licenses.. "I think they will pounce on any issue that has to do with immigration," said Obama, referring to Republicans, "but my position has been very similar to John McCain's, who's may be the likely Republican nominee, and if he wants to try to parse out this one issue of driver's licenses, an issue of public safety, my response is that we have to solve the overall problem and this driver's license issue is a distraction. McCain does not support driver's licenses for illegal immigrants" http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalra...defends-d.html
Originally Posted by Rylan
We need to do something about improving the standard of living in Mexico...
We've tried "Nation Building" in Mexico. Look how many hundreds of millions in aid we've given them. The biggest advantage we've actually given Mexico is NAFTA, which Obama opposes...
Originally Posted by Rylan
.. This could create more jobs..
How does rewarding criminals and allowing them to stay here create more jobs?
 
rylan1

rylan1

Active Member

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2496601
Yes, and you can point two at Obama. His immigration reform plan is virtually IDENTICAL to the one McCain was forced to abandon. Except, of course, Obama is for giving illegals driver's licenses.. "I think they will pounce on any issue that has to do with immigration," said Obama, referring to Republicans, "but my position has been very similar to John McCain's, who's may be the likely Republican nominee, and if he wants to try to parse out this one issue of driver's licenses, an issue of public safety, my response is that we have to solve the overall problem and this driver's license issue is a distraction. McCain does not support driver's licenses for illegal immigrants" http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalra...defends-d.html
We've tried "Nation Building" in Mexico. Look how many hundreds of millions in aid we've given them. The biggest advantage we've actually given Mexico is NAFTA, which Obama opposes...
How does rewarding criminals and allowing them to stay here create more jobs?
The agency or whatever that would be responsible for implementing whatever immigration plan we go with. ..We would need more of them, border patrol, and construction workers if we buld a wall.. also teachers who would teach english and american history (citizenship).
One other point is that all these people aren't mexicans... they are from all over... some have expired visas and some are from Carribbean and S. America, Asia, Europe, and so on...
As far as nation building... we have to look at the source... and the reason why people are coming..basically its because the economy of Mexico is very bad. Our relation with them all needs to be improved... we should be pressuring them for help on this issue because they are getting a great benefit with all the money coming back to them.... If we had a better relationship... we could reach a mutal benefit in the war on drugs..trade alliances, and immigration.
Aren't we giving billions to Pakistan?
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2496770
The agency or whatever that would be responsible for implementing whatever immigration plan we go with. ..We would need more of them, border patrol, and construction workers if we buld a wall.. also teachers who would teach english and american history (citizenship).
One other point is that all these people aren't mexicans... they are from all over... some have expired visas and some are from Carribbean and S. America, Asia, Europe, and so on...
As far as nation building... we have to look at the source... and the reason why people are coming..basically its because the economy of Mexico is very bad. Our relation with them all needs to be improved... we should be pressuring them for help on this issue because they are getting a great benefit with all the money coming back to them.... If we had a better relationship... we could reach a mutal benefit in the war on drugs..trade alliances, and immigration.
Aren't we giving billions to Pakistan?
You conveniently skipped the part of my quote showing that Obama's plan was very similar to McCain's, except for the part about giving illegals driver licenses.
Many of the jobs you list exist whether or not we give amnesty. The kids are already in our school systems illegally, so no extra teachers would be needed. The fence doesn't hinge on whether we kick them out or not so can't count any temporary jobs there. That's also true for the Border Patrol. Really the only agency that would gain jobs would be the State Department. My point is you can't honestly argue that giving amnesty to 10+ million people will create new jobs...
You are absolutely correct when you say illegals come from everywhere. Living on a border state, however, I can attest first hand to where the vast majority of them are from. Furthermore, many illegals from other countries also cross our southern borders.
The economy is bad in Mexico is correct. That is not our fault. Honestly Rylan you need to study this a bit more to better understand the situation. You say we need to better our relationship with Mexico. Do you understand what will happen if Obama cancels NAFTA? NAFTA is a very beneficial trade agreement for Mexico. Trust me; That won't better our relationship when he cancels it... Mexico will never agree to any immigration Bill with the USA that does not include the continuing ability for Mexico to dump 1+ million of it's poorest citizens into our country every year. It's working for them now, why would they change?
Mexico is a "partner" in drug enforcement. Our DEA operates in Mexico. Too bad so many of the officials are corrupted by drug money making practical enforcement of the laws in Mexico more difficult.
Last year we gave $500 million in non-military aid to Pakistan. Senator Biden (D) has asked that we triple that number for the next 10 years.
 
clown boy

clown boy

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2496853
NAFTA is a very beneficial trade agreement for Mexico. Trust me; That won't better our relationship when he cancels it...
You're joking, right??? It's a step towards a North American Union, which is a step towards a One World Government.
 
mfp1016

mfp1016

Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2496770
As far as nation building... we have to look at the source... and the reason why people are coming..basically its because the economy of Mexico is very bad. Our relation with them all needs to be improved... we should be pressuring them for help on this issue because they are getting a great benefit with all the money coming back to them.... If we had a better relationship... we could reach a mutal benefit in the war on drugs..trade alliances, and immigration.
Rylan, your plan sounds like one that is suited to solve a kindergarten sharing problem, not an international issue. Sorry but most of what have said is not true (refer to Journey's post above).
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by sciknen
http:///forum/post/2495470
the whole spanish thing isnt a prob for me
but i think everyone shud speak english
im from boston
and i guess i just dont see it as much

I am sorry. I just have to. Irony? Anyone?
I also need to add for rylan to refer to Journey's post. Add in the fact the Mexican government doesn't WANT to change anything. They get free revenue from their citizens back into their economy without doing anything. If someone gave me free money from a nother country that was valued higher than what I would make here, do you really think I would want things changed. Yeah better diplomacy with Mexico is what we need. I noticed a trend with you. every answer is MORE DIPLOMACY....no elaboration, just more diplomacy or strengthening our relationship. How does diplomacy with a corrupt government solve the immigration problem. Explain that please.
 
scubadoo

scubadoo

Active Member
I live about 12 miles north of the Mexican Border. On the outskirts of town you can see the "activity" daily. The town I live in has a large miltary institution called Ft Huachuca. Also, we have a large Border Patrol popualtion here...several I socialize with on a Fri night and drink a couple cold ones...also many military folks as well.
I have ALWAYS believed there is a vested interest by some to leave a few doors open at the border. I believe that interest is the illegal drug trade. Some folks share this view...others do not I'll say no more on the matter.
 
scubadoo

scubadoo

Active Member
Given the vast resources in this country...we could close the southern border quickly if there was a motivation to do so. We keep dancin round the issue.
 
triga22

triga22

Active Member

Originally Posted by NigerBang
http:///forum/post/2495409
I mean really...Is it too much to ask that : You speak OUR language(not force yours on us)
Pay the same tax we do
Pay for hospital bills to have your Anchor's
Learn a few facts about US history....
Ohh wait...Thats part of going through the Naturalization process...
Give me your tired, hungry, and poor....Hell with that....Americans are tired hungry and poor...
It pisses me off to walk into Burger-King and see the menu in Spanish..
For the third try thanks to Internet Explorer this is the third time typing this message. Goes to show how important this is to me!

I hate the fact that I being a High School student have to lear their language. I hav to take 2 years of it. Yet most of them cannot speak a word of English.
The past couple of times I had a paragraph or so but since I have re-written it I will make a list of what makes me mad.
1.They are illegal, criminals
2.They dont pay taxes
3.They get free health-care
4.They have anchor babies to get more money from the government
5.They take good jobs from LEGAL, AMERICAN CITIZENS
6.2 of them come in a min. totaling to about 2,500 a day
7. Out of those 2,500 104 will become/ or are --- offenders
8.They take up 25% of the prison population
9.Some are disrespectful to this country, and to the people here
10.24 Million here! 1 million --- offenders!
Come on America! DO SOMETHING! NOW!
-To add to the fact that they dont like the country here are some examples, 1 of a message from you-tube I got from an illegal that was mad at me for ranting, and the other is a pic-
The message-Look at the language! GREAT!
I added the flame head
nice speech u got a point der...but
i hat usa
cuz usa hates us mexicans.....iight get dat staiight u knoe dats true ya hate us mexicans ...all i got to saii is dat we is takin over dis land dat was alwaiis ours ok.....u maii saii am racist u could saii watever u want ....i love ma people...soy mexicano...ama chicano...
And the pic from Reno-

^^^^^^^^^^^Makes me mad looking at it ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
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