How do you keep fish alive???

[hansgraf]

I need some help. We started a 29 gal salt water tank approx. 6 months ago. We set it up, added the sand added the live rock, let it cure and started adding crabs and snails. Of course this all took several weeks. Once all levels and numbers were stable and had been for over a week we started adding fish. The first green chromie we purchased is still alive and swimmin but every other fish we have purchased has died within the first few day after introducing them We cannot keep a clown fish alive for anything which is the only fish the kids really care about. We have tried several orange or blue starfish (can't remember what they are called) but they have all died. We gave up and left the tank with one chromie and one emerald crab along with the several snails and hermit crabs. For about 2 months we have been fine with our small collection but have recently decided to buy more fish. We bought a brittle star who seems to be doing fine although we don't see him very often. We bought a protein skimmer because we heard that it should help. On Wed. I received three new fish, a blue chromie, a percula clown and a pajama cardinal. The blue chromie is happy swimmin around with our other chromie. The pajama cardinal died within the first 18 hours, and this morning the clown fish was dead. I followed the acclimation process to the letter. My salt by way of a hydometer was 1.023, my ph is 8.1 and my nitrates are somewhere between the 5 and 10 (it is so hard to tell on the color chart). I know the nitrates are a little high but isn't that normal when you introduce new fish? We are about ready to give up and are frustrated with all the money we are flushing down the toilet (literally) any suggestions would help. Maybe I need a salt water tank for dummies book. Is there such a thing?

 

[jjlittle]

First sorry for your loses. Have you read books on this hobby and researched the fish your buying ? I would raise the salinty but do it very very slow over a couple weeks to about .026 . The Blue Star & Cardinal are listed as harder to keep so I would not try those again. What is you alk / ammonia / Nitrite/ phosphate readings & have you checked them. Do you do regular water changes & what type of water? Have you gotton all you fish from same LFS could be they have a problem. I would also suggest not doing all those fish at once may be try one at a time let the tank adjust to the load for a week or two then add another. Hows the set up and does everything stay pretty stable for stability is key. Was the any agression for fish will shut down under stress from that .

 

[aelene]

Originally Posted by hansgraf
Maybe I need a salt water tank for dummies book. Is there such a thing?

Actually yes there is. I own it lol. It's called "Saltwater Aquariums for Dummies" by Gregory Skomal.

 

[hansgraf]

Does the book help?

 

[hansgraf]

O.K.
We have purchased all of our fish from the same place until this time around. The only things we have bought are chromies and clowns until this first cardinal which we bought from SWF.com. We picked the cardinal because is was different and the web page said it was easy and peaceful. In the past we have relied on the store owner to tell us how to do this tank. We were talking to him daily when we were setting it up, I guess that is my mistake I need to get a book and learn about it for myself. I only test salt, nitrate and ph because I didn't know I was suppose to test for the others. Are there kits for those to and are they easier to read. Picking between the #5 pink and the #10 pink on the nitrate color chart is very difficult for me. I see one of my problems may be doing things too quickly. If my salt is low I dump some in to bring it back up instead of doing it slowly over a few weeks as you suggested. How much salt do you put in 1/2 gallon of water? There is no aggression as there was only one fish and one crab. We maintained the tank that way for several months then decided it looked too bare and wanted to add more too it. I might also add that we do not have any coral or anenomes or such because we do not have a reef light (?) does that make a difference with the fish? I do a 10% water change every week using tap water. By the way, what is RO water? I have read that alot as I have been reading through the message board? Sounds like my next investement needs to be a book and some more test kits. I need to do alot more research. This is alot more involved then we thought it would be.

 

[knhs0811]

I bought the book about a year ago. It was easy to read and helpful. It put things in terms I could understand. I have had my 55gal set up since June 1, and everything is doing well. I think sometimes the LFS's get a"bad batch", and the fish don't last as long. The first 2 fish I bought were a "Nemo" and "Dori"--kids choices! About the book, I would recommend it! Good luck.

 

[snipe]

First off clownfish arent that hard they are a damsle and are very hardy. If your getting them all from the same LFS stop and try a diffrent LFS and try buying Tank Bred fish (there used to fluxe's and such in the aquarium as were wild caught arent and are easier to kill). I agree adding 3 fish in such a small tank can cause an amonia spike killing the fish. I would leave the cardinals out just for the fact I dont like them but hey you might (I do like the bangaii cardinals though). Tap water isnt good as it can have to mutch of this or that killing fish and inverts. And the orange and blue starfish you are buying are called linkia starfish need 100+ lbs of live rock to live on as we dont know what they eat so I wouldnt buy anymore of thoughs as well.
I can tell from right here your LFS isnt very good as he shoulda told you that these animals needs are greater than a 29 can give.

 

[jdragunas]

First of all, do not get saltwater aquariums for dummies. While this book was very informative, it did not give enough information. The best book i would suggest is the Conscientious Marine Aquarist.
Second of all, you're probably overwhelming your tank by adding all of these fish at one time. Rule of thumb for saltwater is that you should add one fish per every two weeks, at least. This allows your biological filtration to keep up with the added ammonia the new addition will be producing.
Third of all, you should not use tapwater, or if you do, you need to at least add water conditioner to it (but you should definately be using Distlilled water or Reverse Osmosis water = RO).
Any changes in your tank need to be done slowly over a few weeks. As opposed to freshwater fish, saltwater fish are much more sensitive to quick changes in the water parameters.
You should at least be testing for the following things: PH, Nitrates, Nitrites (different), Ammonia, Calcium, and alkalinity. These are all INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT tests. (Ammonia turns into nitrates, which turns into nitrites, so you could have low -ates, but high ammonia, or high -ites. These should all be tested at the same time to get a real accurate reading) You should probably switch to drip tests, as opposed to the strip tests, as they are more accurate.
When you test your water, do you just dip the strip right in the tank? This should never be done, as the chemicals on the test strip will infect the tank, and that doesn't show up on tests.
How often are you doing water changes?
Your PH should be around 8.4, so i would try to bring that up a little - slowly. Your SG is ok where its at, although that is a very controversial topic around here. I keep my tank at about 1.023, and my fish are completely fine.
What is the temperature of the tank? This should be around 80 degrees.
What kind of symptoms are your fish showing before they die? Heavy guill breathing, white spots on their scales, etc?
Your lack of corals and anemones don't have an effect on your fish.
How much LR do you have in your tank?
Wow, I didn't realize how much i went on. I'll stop now, but these are all very important questions. Please answer all of them.
Definately buy a book too.
Hope i was of some help to you...

 

[lennon]

One of the most important things that I have learned is to QUARANTINE all the fish you put in. They suggest at least 3-4 weeks. This will prevent problems later on. And they also say to add 1 or maybe 2 fish at a time. otherwise your levels will rise too quickly not giving everything enough chance to adjust.
I suggest, "the conscientious aquarist". This is by far one of the best books out there and will really address all your issues.
Good luck!!

 

[carshark]

just a quick question, that noone seemed to pick up on, you had stated that you tested for PH, salinity, and nitrates? what about ammonia? what about nitrites? what are you using for source water? how much do you feed? do you feed these guys the same day you get them?
oh i guess it was covered but never answered.. . the kids in anyway arent helping feed them or clean their tank with like windex or something? or giving baths are they?

 

[hansgraf]

Answers,
I don't test the water with test strips. I have a kit that you put some water in a test tube and then add some drops of something then wiat five minutes and compare the color of the water to the chart. If my ph should be 8.4 how do I change it?
We do use somethings called "balance blocks" little white blocks you drop into the tank and they dissolve, supposedly helping to balance out your levels. Ever heard of them? Any opinions?
I do a 10% water change once a week. When I do the water change, I dipp a 1/2 gallon pitcher in the top and take some water out (4 times). I have a 2 gallon bucket that I fill with water and add Stress Zyme water conditioner/dechlorinater and then add the salt and let it dissovle before adding it back to the tank. Any input on my water change method?
My water temp is at 78 degrees.
I have 30 lbs. of live rock
The last two fish to die were introduced to the tank. They did move around and swim for awhile. Nemo lasted about a aday of swimming around. By last night he was laying on the sand on his side, breathing heavy. He did not move all night. He was dead when I checked on him at 3:00 in the morning (I was up with the baby anyway ) The cardinal was found several hours after we introduced him stuck to the tube of the filter. I know he had been there less than an hour because we have recently seen him swimming. I turned off the filter "releasing" him and he swam away. Several hours later he was laying on his side on the bottom of the tank breathing heavy. He kept being pulled over to the filter and would not fight against it so I netted him and put him in a plastic quarentine box thing and let him float around the top. he never recovered. Most of the ones in the past we just find laying on the bottom when we turn the tank light on in the morning. Or we find their remains being munched by the hermit crabs.
We have always purchased more than one fish at a time. Again being told at the store that this was o.k. I am guessing from everything I have read over the past two days that we are killing them with an ammonia spike.
Thanks everyone for your input.
P.S. How do you add the cute little guys to your messages????

 

[hansgraf]

I feed once a day - every morning. I use frozen brine shrimp from the freezer that the kids can't reach. I am the only one that feeds them. The day I got this last batch I feed them later that night after the whole long acclimation process.
The kids NEVER touch the fish or even the tank water. they leave it alone.
I do clean the outside of the glass with a paper towel that has been sprayed with windex. I never spray the windex on the glass, only on the towel and then wipe the glass down.

 

[hansgraf]

If my ammonia is high, which I am guessing it is. How do I bring it down? I added new water on Wed, as the acclimating took water out of my tank. I did a 10% water change yesterday because my nitrates were high. Can I safely do another water change again already?

 

[oceanist]

If i could give you only one opinion , it would be to for sure get "the consienctous marine aquarist" its a great book , it is pricey , but it will save you alot of money from mistakes in the long run.

 

[jjlittle]

You need to try different water source either ro/di or distilled for tap is no good and I think that is one main problem. If ammonia is high get Amquil or similair product which nutralizes it instantly for ammonia is very toxic to fish. Also clorine which is in 99% of tap water is toxic.Your Nitrates are ok as long as they under 20 so dont worry about that. There are many easy test kits for Ammonia/ nitrite/ phosphate/ alk.To bring water salinity up mix up water change water with the salt just above tank current reading then add after 24 hours and salt has desolved use a power head to keep it mixing and airator / heater if needed so it is same temp. But do it slow only raise it .001 each time and wait like 3 to 4 days in between.

 

[jdragunas]

Dear, the best thing for you to do right now it to continue to do 10% water changes weekly. You could try that amquel stuff to bring down the ammonia, but that never seemed to work for me. You just have to let your tank do a mini-cycle at the moment.
You don't want to do too many water changes in a short period of time, as this will shock the tank as well.
What do you have for substrate? Crushed coral, sand, etc...?
Oh yeah, your LFS will most likely tell you anything to get a sale.
To raise ph, you can purchase a supplement called "PH up" you add so many drops per gallon to raise your ph levels, but remember to do this slowly.
CARSHARK... lol it's understandable that you didn't read all of my other post... I wouldn't have either. It's a frickin novel!!!

<--- these little guys? When you click "post reply" and the screen comes up, they should be on the right-hand side of your page. Just click on the one you want, and it'll insert it wherever your cursor was in the text.

 

[puffer32]

I would bet if you had tested nitrites and ammonia ( 2 very important tests for a salt tank) your readings would be high, I believe they are what killed your fish because 3 new fish at once WILL spike both. Do afew more changes, get the proper tests and when all is 0, add 1 fish at a time, at least a week apart. If you don't have a RO unit, get your water at walmarts, its only 33 cents a gal.

 

[hansgraf]

Thanks for all the tips. To bad I left for Walmart before reading that last message I just got back from there. Where can I buy the other amquel stuff and PH up? In our area we have a place called Aquatic Dreams where we have purchased most of our stuff and ***** that sells salt water fish. Thats about it. Do I bring the ammonia down slowly too or one dose should do it as jjlittle says it neutralizes instantly?
So having my salt and ph low right now is o.k. as long as I slowly start to raise it over the next week or so? Do I have to have the salt completly dissolved before putting it in? So if I know I will do a water change on Sunday I should get the water ready on Sat? When do you suggest the next water change? I did one yesterday. Do I still wait or should I get some ph up and ammonia neutralizer in there today?
We have sand for the substrate. About 2 inches covering the bottom.
I sure wish I would have known about this website months ago. I have learned more in the past two days then in the last six months.
Thanks

 

[snipe]

Yes completly dissolved is best as salt can burn inverts and corals (just like salt in a wound).
I wouldnt add any chems to the tank to get read of amonia as simple water changes every other day of around 20% will get them to 0 in 2 or 3 changes and once there 0 just go back to your normal weekly 10% change.

 

[rstiles]

I would mix salt today Friday ,use power head or air stones to kept watetr moving,the salt will mix will be around 8.2 - use a buffer in the main tank it will rise the ph up also use the
buffer in your top off water if your buying ro or distilled water the ph will be around 6 so add buffer to that water most buffers will bring the water to 8.2 also what kind of water movement do you have in the tank ? movement shoud be around 12 times the tank size
29 gallon tank x 12 =348 gallon per hour between the filter and a power head.by the way I use this method for all my tanks I do have a ro unit ,( i need aroud 100 gallon a week) if your tank is a 29 your better off going to walmart and getting the water the most water you should change is 10-15 % more than that will cause a shock to the live stock.