Quote:
Originally Posted by
florida joe http:///t/394389/how-to-cure-saltwater-ich/20#post_3516774
Well again I must thank you for the enlightenment. I will be the first to admit I am no expert on the hobby but I also must submit this Is not my first rodeo. That being said let me address all your highlighted (in red reprints)
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Maintain the aquarium as a hyposalinity system for at least 3 weeks, 4 is bette
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at least meaning in my opinion the best case scenario most hobbyists I know, when it comes to the welfare of their livestock deal in the worst case scenario
The lack of osmotic pressure deprives the ick parasite of fluid transfer this transfer is of major importance when the parasite is dividing not in its free swimming stage
Marine teleost fish (higher bony fishes) maintain their osmotic concentration at about one quarter to one third that of sea water. In normal sea water, these fish have a tendency to lose water from their gills due to osmosis and also in their urine. Fish have to drink a lot of water to make up for the loss, however, as the water contains a lot of salt (35‰) they must remove the excess salt from their system. The sodium and chloride ions are secreted by the gills and magnesium and sulphates are excreted in urine. This is an active process and requires energy much like the energy required to keep warm blooded animals warm.
Not sure of what you are trying to convey in relation to ick
When fish are under stress, one of the processes that is affected is ion regulation. This means they have difficulty adjusting the concentration of ions (sodium, chloride, etc.). Lowering the salinity of the tank water makes the concentration of ions closer to that of the fish’s internal fluids and reduces the fish"s efforts to maintain the correct concentrations.
Again not sure what your point is But IMO any sudden change to normal parameters is detrimental to the fish
Please note that only the higher bony fishes have lower osmotic concentrations and can be treated this way. Marine invertebrates have the same osmotic concentration as the surrounding water (Schmidt-Nielsen, 1975) and if left in the aquarium during hyposalinity treatment are most likely to die due to ososmotic shock. Sharks and rays may not survive hyposalinity i find this hard to relate to average hobbyists
----> Ah, this part is in relation to hyposalinity and stress to the fish. Someone mentioned stress to the fish, and also in early posts there was some question as to what critters were and weren't harmed by hyposalinity so I found this interesting and relevant.
I read on one source that it is not entirely certain which part of the ich cycle is affected by hyposalinity. Given, most sources I have seen say that hyposalinity causes the free-swimming stage to lyse. Here is one report... Can't link to that particular article.
"There are conflicting reports as to which part of the cycle is killed. Some say it will cause the Theront (free swimming/infective) stage to rupture, killing it. Some say it causes problems in the Tomont (encysted/reproductive) stage. Tomonts need a higher osmotic pressure to finish the reproductive cycle; at a specific gravity of 1.009 they cannot complete their part of the cycle. They die, never to emerge. Whichever the case, hyposalinity works."
I found this cute little schematic summing up the life cycle of ich, and which stages take how long, and the temperature at which the ich cycle continues. According to this page, the ich cycle runs between 78-84 degrees. I wonder if we can then assume that temperatures outside that range will stymie the cycle?
http://www.chucksaddiction.com/ich.html
I think someone may have quoted this article earlier.
Regarding fish stress, I found another article that somewhat supports the last one, but quotes actual research this time which is good news.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/6/fish
"There may be some concern that hyposaline conditions could be stressful to marine teleost fish, or otherwise potentially harmful. While this is true in extreme salinities, studies indicate that this is not the case in more moderate salinities that would be employed in hyposalinity therapy (Wu & Woo, 1983. Woo & Chung, 1995. McDonald & Grosell, 2006).
Natural Sea Water is much more saline than the internal fluids of marine fish. Because of this, they expend a considerable amount of energy to reduce the excessive salt load through the process of osmoregulation. The kidneys are not the primary site of electrolyte management in marine teleost fish (Stoskopf, 1993). Chloride cells in the gills excrete excess chloride and sodium. “The kidneys of marine fish do play a role in electrolyte excretion; however, there function is more important in the balance of magnesium and sulfate levels and not, as might be assumed, in sodium and chloride elimination” (Stoskopf, 1993)."
As for how quickly to acclimate, this article addressed this somewhat, though it seems it suggests that hyposalinity can only have a positive effect, immediately out of acclimation. I found this very interesting. Apparently temperature and PH changes are the most stress-inducing parameters.
"Acclimation and alleviating the effects of stress
The effects of stress caused by capture, transport and handling is a major concern when acclimating fish, especially when they have been bagged for a prolonged period. Stress affects fish in two ways: it produces effects that disrupt or threaten homoestatic equilibrium and it induces adaptive behavioral and physiological responses (Wendelaar Bonga,1997). Osmoregulatory dysfunction is closely associated with stress in fish. This is recognized by an increase in osmolarity in saltwater species (Carmicheal et. al, 1984. Robertson et. al, 1988.). This can manifest in the loss of up to ten percent of body weight due to dehydration in one or two days (Sleet & Weber, 1982.). Reducing the salinity gradient between the water and the internal fluids of fish is effective in counteracting osmoregulatory dysfunction and other physiological responses to stress (Johnson & Metcalf, 1982. McDonald & Milligan, 1997.) With marine teleost species, this is accomplished by reducing the salinity of their environment.
Quickly acclimating recently transported, or otherwise stressed marine teleost fish to low salinity water will help them to recover normal homeostasis more rapidly. Marine fish are most sensitive to changes in temperature and pH during the acclimation period. Match these parameters in the quarantine tank closely to the shipment water, provided they are not at levels that are dangerous to the fish. Then the pH and temperature can be adjusted slowly over a couple of days to match the display aquarium."
This article also addresses whether to keep the quarantine tank at hyposaline levels at all times.
"Quarantine
Placing fish in hyposaline conditions during the quarantine period is a proactive approach to dealing with some types of external parasites. Rather than waiting for fish to exhibit signs of infection, why not be one step ahead? This can save time, improve an animals odds of survival and help protect the established livestock in the display aquarium. Hyposalinity therapy is an excellent treatment for
Cryptocaryon irritans (saltwater ich). It can also be effective against some other types of parasites such as the Monogenetic trematode Neobenedenia melleni."
Also,
"Hyposalinity can be employed in better acclimating recently transported fish, for quarantine, treating wounds, with antibiotics, getting fish to begin eating, conserving metabolic energy, improving growth and alleviating the effects of stress.
I am not suggesting that all marine fish be kept in hyposaline conditions indefinitely. What I am suggesting is being open to investigating the various potential applications for hyposalinity therapy."
Sorry for posting about all the articles if no one else finds them interesting. I would prefer to keep the atmosphere of the thread open and non-competitive, and I feel that a good way to do that is by steering the forum towards professional opinion expressed in articles as scientific as possible, rather than hear-say or guesses. In the spirit of this, I have avoided quoting posts on other forums or threads. That said, opinions and experiences are definitely still welcome. If anything, I will do searches for articles that can either prove or disprove them, and preferably both. I will try not to be biased towards one method or another. I welcome articles that contradict what I've said here, because I would honestly love to get to the bottom of this topic. Together we can come up with a mainstream procedure for treating ich with hyposalinity. And I will edit the original post based on our findings.
So far, by everyone's recommendations, I believe it would be wise to change the recommended time in the OP to longer. Also, I still have not had a chance to research the effects of temperature on ich. Is there anything I forgot that needs to be added or changed?
